Space Marine "Rips Off" Gears of War
- Thread starter Soviet Heavy
- Start date
Recommended Videos
To be fair I played through the Space Marine demo three times and am currently playing Gears of War as we speak and I found little to no similarities between the two games.
Gears of War: Heavy emphasis on co-ordinating fire on enemies to bring them down and a universal use of cover to defend yourself from enemy fire. Weapons all designed for use at stand-off range (exception being the shotgun) and close combat is discouraged. Stylistically has locations feel very reminiscent of footage from conflicts in the Middle East (that's the impression I got anyway).
Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine: Stressed emphasis on combining ranged and melee attacks and the adoption of various tactics and weapons for differing circumstances. Weapons are designed for a variety of ranges and uses and close combat is encouraged (it's one of the only ways to restore health). Manueverability is emphasised and cover is not used. Stylistically is focused on dark fantasy and gothic architecture and and sci-fi variants of various facist organisation (taking a lot of notes from the designs and iconography from Nazi Germany and the Romans) with a focus on industrial locations.
I only found 3 real similarities between the two:
1- Space Marines and CoG soldiers look similar (as in, they both fit the description of 'large, muscular men in power armour').
2- They're both third person games with an over the shoulder perspective.
3- Both use the same button to select weapons (the D-pad).
As a result I would say it's unfair to call Space Marine a GoW clone, regardless of your opinion on how good the game was.
Gears of War: Heavy emphasis on co-ordinating fire on enemies to bring them down and a universal use of cover to defend yourself from enemy fire. Weapons all designed for use at stand-off range (exception being the shotgun) and close combat is discouraged. Stylistically has locations feel very reminiscent of footage from conflicts in the Middle East (that's the impression I got anyway).
Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine: Stressed emphasis on combining ranged and melee attacks and the adoption of various tactics and weapons for differing circumstances. Weapons are designed for a variety of ranges and uses and close combat is encouraged (it's one of the only ways to restore health). Manueverability is emphasised and cover is not used. Stylistically is focused on dark fantasy and gothic architecture and and sci-fi variants of various facist organisation (taking a lot of notes from the designs and iconography from Nazi Germany and the Romans) with a focus on industrial locations.
I only found 3 real similarities between the two:
1- Space Marines and CoG soldiers look similar (as in, they both fit the description of 'large, muscular men in power armour').
2- They're both third person games with an over the shoulder perspective.
3- Both use the same button to select weapons (the D-pad).
As a result I would say it's unfair to call Space Marine a GoW clone, regardless of your opinion on how good the game was.
I didn't say they were the first art covered marine chapter. I said the Omega symbol has been their chapter marking for as long as they've been around which is as long as 40k has been a proper franchise. I don't really think of the rogue trader game as warhammer 40kWarforger said:
I think you're getting too hung up on the word "Marine" and wrongly equating WH40K Space Marines to Marines in Space.darksakul said:
In the Warhammer 40K universe, the Imperial Guard are comparable to contemporary marines such as the USMC and Royal Marines, in fact there's probably a Imperial Guard regiment for every recognisable historic and contemporary Army - for example the Catachan Jungle Fighters are based on the US Marines of the 60's and 70's and are what you would identify as a "Space Marine".
Space Marines, or Adeptus Astartes to give them their proper and less confusing name, aren't marines at all, they're Knights.
They're not a futuristic version of soldiers or the army (that's the Imperial Guard), they're they futuristic versions of Medieval Knights. They're Lords and nobles as well as being Brotherhoods of religious warriors. Their armour and weapons are futuristic versions of full plate armour, swords and shields, not flak jackets and rifles, they don't fight wars - they fight Crusades.
While the training, comrade and doctrine of the Imperial Guard resembles the Espirt De Corp of modern armies and Marines, the Space Marine background and doctrine resembles a Medieval class-ist mentality and religious fervour which thankfully hasn't existed in any real life army for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Warhammer 40,000 Space Marines have almost noting to do with real life Marines, apart from the the shared use of a common word.
Getting back to the topic at hand, the Gear of War and Space Marine comparison in terms of protagonists is tenuous at best, since the Gears of War characters more closely resemble the Imperial Guard, especially an Ogryn trooper armed with a Ripper Gun (a fully automatic gun with a chainsaw bayonet), than they do the Adeptus Astartes.
I felt like it was more a God of War clone with guns and Orks. I wouldn't compare it with Gears because there are some major differences:
1) The enemies swarm. And don't tell me that the Locust do the same: They act the same in every battle (Find cover, shoot, rinse, repeat) with the same horrible AI. I find that the first F.E.A.R. had better AI than the Locust.
SM, though, uses more of the 'WAAGH!' AI. And no, it isn't too smart, but when you are facing 30 or so enemies, they don't need to flank.
2) The controls: I had to get used to the controls after a little while, especially without a 'Hug Wall' button or a crouch. Three of the face buttons are devoted to your melee combat, which is interesting to use in multiplayer but becomes kind of tedious in Campaign. PROTIP: XXY Shoulder Bash is the ONLY move you need on anything larger than a gretchin.
And I found that switching from aim/shoot mode to melee becomes more essential than before when you start getting the waves that attack on different heights. If you focus on Melee, the Shoota boyz will tear your armor apart, and if you decide to clear out the upper levels first a Squig {Exploding dog alien} or a Nob is going to turn you into goo. One of the few games where the obligatory 'FURY' mode is both fair (Where is your invulnerability now?!) and necessary in some fights.
3) The novels are awesome. Though I think a Commissar game would be far more awesome, the Black Library has quite a few good novels in the canon, as well as a large mythology. The Gears 'outside media' is, for lack of a better word, shite.
4) The Multiplayer is awesome. Sorry, but after you use a jetpack to drop down onto a control point, crush an enemy under your heel and then shred two more enemies with a power sword, you forget that none of that makes sense and you start looking for more opportunities to do it again before that bastard with the heavy bolter shreds you. I like how the Multi divides itself into three seperate classes [Tactical for average movement/power, assault for jetpack/melee, and Devastator for DAKKA and a decent sidestep that robs people of the kill. Then again, once you power up your Seeker Bolter with the upgraded perks, it can be just as powerful as the Lascannon, without the movement reduction.
So, yeah, I don't think the Gears of War connection (Which he really only uses because of the button controls) is very valid. Is it good or not? I like it, but I would get the demo before you decide to buy.
1) The enemies swarm. And don't tell me that the Locust do the same: They act the same in every battle (Find cover, shoot, rinse, repeat) with the same horrible AI. I find that the first F.E.A.R. had better AI than the Locust.
SM, though, uses more of the 'WAAGH!' AI. And no, it isn't too smart, but when you are facing 30 or so enemies, they don't need to flank.
2) The controls: I had to get used to the controls after a little while, especially without a 'Hug Wall' button or a crouch. Three of the face buttons are devoted to your melee combat, which is interesting to use in multiplayer but becomes kind of tedious in Campaign. PROTIP: XXY Shoulder Bash is the ONLY move you need on anything larger than a gretchin.
And I found that switching from aim/shoot mode to melee becomes more essential than before when you start getting the waves that attack on different heights. If you focus on Melee, the Shoota boyz will tear your armor apart, and if you decide to clear out the upper levels first a Squig {Exploding dog alien} or a Nob is going to turn you into goo. One of the few games where the obligatory 'FURY' mode is both fair (Where is your invulnerability now?!) and necessary in some fights.
3) The novels are awesome. Though I think a Commissar game would be far more awesome, the Black Library has quite a few good novels in the canon, as well as a large mythology. The Gears 'outside media' is, for lack of a better word, shite.
4) The Multiplayer is awesome. Sorry, but after you use a jetpack to drop down onto a control point, crush an enemy under your heel and then shred two more enemies with a power sword, you forget that none of that makes sense and you start looking for more opportunities to do it again before that bastard with the heavy bolter shreds you. I like how the Multi divides itself into three seperate classes [Tactical for average movement/power, assault for jetpack/melee, and Devastator for DAKKA and a decent sidestep that robs people of the kill. Then again, once you power up your Seeker Bolter with the upgraded perks, it can be just as powerful as the Lascannon, without the movement reduction.
So, yeah, I don't think the Gears of War connection (Which he really only uses because of the button controls) is very valid. Is it good or not? I like it, but I would get the demo before you decide to buy.
Also, to end the whole 'who came first' deal, look up a book called 'Starship Troopers' by Robert A. Heinlein, the grandfather of the powered armor/space army genre.
Halo, Gears, 40K...they come from one genesis.
Which, still, has never been captured fully. The closest that came to actually capturing that hectic first chapter [In which about 10-15 Mobile Infantry wipe out a city with ease, only losing one] Was Tribes 2. Seriously, go and read the first chapter. Mini-nukes, city-wide destruction, and their version of 'drop pods' are shells that explode into fragments (chaff to keep cannons from locking on) while the person in nothing but his armor slams into a building filled with hostiles and wipes them out. The only game to capture that part was Section 8, and aside from that the game was forgettable.
So, yeah
They don't care. Go ahead and look at all the fucks they give. Seriously, relax, the word has been around long before some guys got drunk in a tavern in 1775, and saying that you take offense because people are using it makes the entire Corps look like the same jarhead stereotype that they prove people wrong with every day.
Halo, Gears, 40K...they come from one genesis.
Which, still, has never been captured fully. The closest that came to actually capturing that hectic first chapter [In which about 10-15 Mobile Infantry wipe out a city with ease, only losing one] Was Tribes 2. Seriously, go and read the first chapter. Mini-nukes, city-wide destruction, and their version of 'drop pods' are shells that explode into fragments (chaff to keep cannons from locking on) while the person in nothing but his armor slams into a building filled with hostiles and wipes them out. The only game to capture that part was Section 8, and aside from that the game was forgettable.
So, yeah
Guess what? The first Marines were French, so don't you dare think you can sling around the word Marine without Charles V taking notice. Thank you very much, I've served with people in the Marine Corps, and do you know what they think of someone using the word Marine with Gears of War or Warhammer?darksakul said:
They don't care. Go ahead and look at all the fucks they give. Seriously, relax, the word has been around long before some guys got drunk in a tavern in 1775, and saying that you take offense because people are using it makes the entire Corps look like the same jarhead stereotype that they prove people wrong with every day.
The "weapons are swapped via the same D-Pad system" complaint is fucking ridiculous. Gears wasn't the first game to use this system (Jak II from 2003 come to mind, there probably are earlier examples), and saying that this is "aping" Gears is moronic.
Other than that, that's pretty right on the money. I only played the demo and found the game quite bland.
Other than that, that's pretty right on the money. I only played the demo and found the game quite bland.
So because gears of war was a third person shooter space marine cant use the third person style at all?CrashBang said:
It didnt do anything new or dramatic all right but I dont really think it needed to, the combat is the life and soul game and they did a fine job. I didnt play the demo so I dont really know how much of the game/combat/weapons you missed, but there are points where you get to mow down dozzens of orks with huge guns and if they get too close smash/slash/stomp them into little pieces. Which is pretty much what space marines are all about, bit cliche but its not a bad one to use if you were forced to take a cliche and make a game with it.
The plot was a little predictable but the twist wasnt entiely what I expected it (as it always does) basicly comes down to 'You must save the planet and in doing so leave a convienient plot hole for a sequel.'
Out of interest did you actually buy/play the full game yet?
Funny you say that because I have read the book >.>Inkidu said:
I feel that Starship Troopers and Space Marines are both very competent Space Marines but are different and unique to each other.
Starship Troopers 'wear' their armour.[sub]Not sure if it's a difference though. Space Marines follow the same principles I think.[/sub]Their armour lets them do ordinary things, greater. It lets them carry more ammo, jump higher, run faster and etc. I'm sure you know the part in the book where it lists them in detail. Now arguably Space Marines could be the same but I'm not too keen on dwelling over the hardest of the science-fiction in the book. Starship Troopers also aren't physically modified in anyway. They don't get extra-organs and can't do things a normal human couldn't like automatically healing wounds by itself. The mental modifications aren't as extreme as well, most of their beliefs are set in stone before joining.
But to be fair, those aren't huge differences and the following is the main reason why I feel they're completely different. Starship Troopers combat is wide-spread over huge distances. Starship Troopers feel shoulder to shoulder when their nearest squad?mate is kilometres away. They jump over buildings and level them with ease. If Starship Troopers were to do what the Space Marines did in the game, they'd do it far away from the Orks and simply kill them from a range.
I personally find the mechanics of the game to be very similar to Gears of War. But the actually gameplay is fairly different. No cover system is an obvious standout.
Needless to say after playing Gears of War, i felt right at home diving in to the Space Marine demo.
Plus jetpacks and chainsaw hammers.
Needless to say after playing Gears of War, i felt right at home diving in to the Space Marine demo.
Plus jetpacks and chainsaw hammers.
No and I'm not going to. The demo didn't sell it to me at all. It really did feel too much like GeOW, the character models, aesthetics, movement, camera angles, weapons, everything but the cover system. I'm all for games taking inspiration from others (Uncharted, for example) but the Space Marine demo made it feel like a cheap knock-off. Maybe the rest of the game would prove me wrong but if the demo failed to pique my interests then I'm not spending £40 on it.KiKiweaky said:
I don't get it. The reviewer seems a little moronic to make the comparison like that, the ONLY similarity is the style of it, big hulking space warrior with chainsaw and loud gun.
Everything else is pretty different, Gears was cover obsessed where Space Marine isn't being the biggest diversion, you might as well say it's a CoD clone because there are guns. Just...do not understand the comparison like that, it's not a Gears clone in any way.
I don't think it's any good either, but certainly not a Gears clone.
Everything else is pretty different, Gears was cover obsessed where Space Marine isn't being the biggest diversion, you might as well say it's a CoD clone because there are guns. Just...do not understand the comparison like that, it's not a Gears clone in any way.
I don't think it's any good either, but certainly not a Gears clone.
You do know that GoW kinda ripped Warhammer 40k off with the bulky heavy armored men, big weapons, big melee saw thingy, the small teams of bulky men?CrashBang said:
And the fact that the combat is nowhere close to GoW at all...
You don't wade through shitloads of enemies executing them for life in GoW, I GoW you sit behind a wall and headshot a few guys before you move on, rinse and repeat.
And GoW do not ''own'' the TPS genre, and sure they might not have done something extremely new, but at least they didn't rip of GoW like Dead Island rips of Borderlands, which is fine btw, go with a formula that works!
Anyways, come back when you've finished both GoW/2 and Space Marine...
And check your facts.
Clearly Space Marine is a thousand times better than Gears Of War. If you cannot see that.. Then you must be blind.
Actually, no. Control setups are valid things to criticize. If someone makes a game where you do all the walking/running by alternately mashing the L and R triggers to move each individual leg, while at the same time having to use the left thumbstick to choose direction and the right to turn, that's a pretty big problem. Control schemes have a huge potential to make or break a game.Soviet Heavy said:
Except that isn't the problem the reviewer had. It wasn't that the controls were bad, it's that they are similar to the ones used in Gears of War, where the controls were tried and tested to work. The reviewer took the fact that Space Marine uses the D-Pad to select weapons as "proof" that the game is just a GOW clone.Xmaspast said:
GoW is god of war, gears of war is referred to as "gears".yuval152 said:
just pointing that out.
even then your kinda correct, its trying to pull of the unbridled killing rage that GoW was known for but ends up falling short.
coming at it from a TPS it is ok but less that original, its only the part that you only regen health from killing(after stunning them and ONLY after stunning them) that it sets its self apart.
