Space Marines: They're becoming wimpier with each generation (Now with added ORK!)

[Megacherv]

The most awesome space marine was the Doomguy. He literally went to hell and back, and is still alive today.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

It fills in more of an 'every man' archtype?

But Imperial Guard exist for that in the 40k universe.

 

[Alex_P]

Where pray tell, do you get that information from? Starship Troopers has nothing to do with space mari.... oh wait, you're talking about the movie. Guess what? Warhammer 40k was around before doom and starship troopers the movie.

They drop down from orbit in power armor. I'd call that "space marines". And, yes, I know they're referred to as infantry.

-- Alex

 

[Saskwach]

Where pray tell, do you get that information from? Starship Troopers has nothing to do with space mari.... oh wait, you're talking about the movie. Guess what? Warhammer 40k was around before doom and starship troopers the movie.

They drop down from orbit in power armor. I'd call that "space marines". And, yes, I know they're referred to as infantry.

-- Alex

Dude, Marines and Infantry are totally not the same thing, unless you decide that semantics aren't important or anything - and where would that road take us? Agreeing that setting comparison doesn't make your own setting of choice any cooler/crappier than it was when you started? Even *gasp* that placing fictional universes side by side is like commenting that apples are so much fruitier than oranges?

 

[Slycne]

The 40K Space Marine game is shaping up to suck, continuity-wise.
The gun doesn't shoot full-blown rockets, it shoots bullets, and it's supposed to focus on close combat, which space marines simply aren't built for.

Space Marines were plenty capable of holding their own in close combat. That's even before considering Assault Squads, Power Swords, Chain Swords, Dreadnoughts, Lightning Claws, etc. Space Marines were always a bit of a mix, the Tau for example were more of a ranged force.

 

[theCMNDER]

Space marines existed before Warhammer you know.... They came up with all this stuff about insanely awesome space marines, the originals from Starship troopers were pretty bad ass though. Warhammer wasn't the original so don't compare shit to it.

Haha. Compared to the troopers in Starship Troopers the W40k-SM are wussies. So he can compare the 40k-ones to anything he likes. He can't compare the StarshipTroopers to anything, tho.

WTF, WTF! WTF?
Starship Troopers "space marines" were total pussies compared to the great hulking legendary epitomes of gods on earth that are the Warhammer 40k Space Marines, they aren't even considered human - but superhuman. The Starship Trooper marines were more similar to the Starcraft marines that drop dead at the mere sight of whatever retarded alien-bug race they're currently fighting. The 40k Space Marines hulk around at 8 feet tall coated in several inches of adamantium armor, firing fully automatic hand held grenade launchers and punch holes in stone walls with fists the size of a man's chest (powerfist hell yea)! How can you begin to compare the two. ¬.¬

I am not saying the 40k Space Marines were the first... they are just the most badass.
Although the marines in Warhammer 40k games are generally not nearly as badass as they should be, simply to balance the game. But I'm refering to Space Marines in the 40k Lore.

EDIT: yes, this was rantastic!

 

[Kukakkau]

Stormtroopers weren't exactly badass were they?

 

[Alex_P]

Dude, Marines and Infantry are totally not the same thing, unless you decide that semantics aren't important or anything - and where would that road take us? Agreeing that setting comparison doesn't make your own setting of choice any cooler/crappier than it was when you started? Even *gasp* that placing fictional universes side by side is like commenting that apples are so much fruitier than oranges?

When you have "space navies" and the entire world is your beachhead, the line between "marine" and "paratrooper" becomes highly blurred. Hell, I don't see 40k Space Marines doing many "marine" things at all.

Heinlein, much as I actually rather hate him, was the one who really developed the whole power-armored infantry concept into what it is today. Everybody's power-armored space marines are a response to his work in some way.

I agree that arguing about whether the Executor or the Enterprise can put out more jigawatts of quantum hypno-lasers or about which fictional character has the bigger dick is pointless. Comparing tone and characterization between different bits of fiction can be worthwhile, though.

-- Alex

 

[geldonyetich]

You know, they're just giving the next generation of Warhammer 40k fans what they want...


Yes, it's a travesty.

 

[Alex_P]

Just for everyone here. I would recommend reading Joe Haldeman's The Forever War after Starship Troopers as it provides an good antithesis for the militaristic-fascistic overtones in Starship Troopers.

I'll second the recommendation. It hasn't really aged that well, but it's still a pretty good book. Read it now, before it finally becomes a movie (Ridley Scott is making one, I'm told)! That way you can be one of the cool kids or something.

John Scalzi's book Old Man's War, written recently, was another good one.

-- Alex

 

[Alex_P]

Although the marines in Warhammer 40k games are generally not nearly as badass as they should be, simply to balance the game. But I'm refering to Space Marines in the 40k Lore.

I find the ones in the game preferable to the ones in the lore. To me, the ones in the lore come off as absurd and ridiculous, cheesy and unsympathetic.

Look here, for example:

Marcus Fenix = More of a Badass than you will ever grow to be.

Spoiler: Correction

I'll bet you can't say that to Marneus Calgar's face.

Look at that tiny head! Just look at it! Tiny heads = instant lameness.

In contrast, I think the ones in the game come off as a pretty reasonable take on elite soldiers with power armor; I find them aesthetically pleasing for the most part, too.

-- Alex

 

[Seydaman]

The 40K Space Marine game is shaping up to suck, continuity-wise.
The gun doesn't shoot full-blown rockets, it shoots bullets, and it's supposed to focus on close combat, which space marines simply aren't built for.
But yes, 40K Space marines can be considered the epitome of manliness.(Assuming 'epitome' means what I think it does.)

epitome ?noun
1. a person or thing that is typical of or possesses to a high degree the features of a whole class: He is the epitome of goodness.
2. a condensed account, esp. of a literary work; abstract.

 

[MassiveGeek]

Just becuse of this kind of stuff, I wish I was born earlier so that I could experience the Warhammer's brutal nature from the beginning, not now, when all the good stuff has been replaced. D: What happened to the awsomely sexy female warriors, that all was individually designed, and not copy pasted? D:

 

[Specter_]

Space marines existed before Warhammer you know.... They came up with all this stuff about insanely awesome space marines, the originals from Starship troopers were pretty bad ass though. Warhammer wasn't the original so don't compare shit to it.

Haha. Compared to the troopers in Starship Troopers the W40k-SM are wussies. So he can compare the 40k-ones to anything he likes. He can't compare the StarshipTroopers to anything, tho.

WTF, WTF! WTF?
Starship Troopers "space marines" were total pussies compared to the great hulking legendary epitomes of gods on earth that are the Warhammer 40k Space Marines, they aren't even considered human - but superhuman. The Starship Trooper marines were more similar to the Starcraft marines that drop dead at the mere sight of whatever retarded alien-bug race they're currently fighting. The 40k Space Marines hulk around at 8 feet tall coated in several inches of adamantium armor, firing fully automatic hand held grenade launchers and punch holes in stone walls with fists the size of a man's chest (powerfist hell yea)! How can you begin to compare the two. ¬.¬

I am not saying the 40k Space Marines were the first... they are just the most badass.
Although the marines in Warhammer 40k games are generally not nearly as badass as they should be, simply to balance the game. But I'm refering to Space Marines in the 40k Lore.

EDIT: yes, this was rantastic!

I repeat myself: read the book! Nobody usefull here talks about that crappy movie.

 

[Mister Ash]

The 40K Space Marine game is shaping up to suck, continuity-wise.
The gun doesn't shoot full-blown rockets, it shoots bullets, and it's supposed to focus on close combat, which space marines simply aren't built for.
But yes, 40K Space marines can be considered the epitome of manliness.(Assuming 'epitome' means what I think it does.)

point of interest, Bolt Weapons, in the W40k universe at least, fire self propelled ammunition, which is more akin to a rocket, than a bullet which is propelled by explosives in the cartridge that is expelled,

other than that, I aggree, the Lore's getting worse, and on the table, there was a time when my 28 Wolf Guard Terminators with master crafted lightning claws or thunder hammers could wipe out entire IG, Eldar, hell even other Marine armies with considerable ease... now... well, i stopped playing.

 

[theCMNDER]

I repeat myself: read the book! Nobody usefull here talks about that crappy movie.

Well I won't argue then as, as you have guessed, I have not read the book. But my god there must be a hell of a difference, because the guys in the film are total pussies, they're from the future and our military would walk all over them.

 

[Specter_]

I repeat myself: read the book! Nobody usefull here talks about that crappy movie.

Well I won't argue then as, as you have guessed, I have not read the book. But my god there must be a hell of a difference, because the guys in the film are total pussies, they're from the future and our military would walk all over them.

I wouldn't even call it "loosely based on the book". The name is the same. And the unit. And that's about it. The bug-war is a small part at the end of the book, if I recall correctly one chapter.
But honestly: just read it. It's a great book.

Where pray tell, do you get that information from? Starship Troopers has nothing to do with space mari.... oh wait, you're talking about the movie. Guess what? Warhammer 40k was around before doom and starship troopers the movie.

They drop down from orbit in power armor. I'd call that "space marines". And, yes, I know they're referred to as infantry.

-- Alex

It's Mobile Infantry.

 

[Bretty]

Where pray tell, do you get that information from? Starship Troopers has nothing to do with space mari.... oh wait, you're talking about the movie. Guess what? Warhammer 40k was around before doom and starship troopers the movie.

They drop down from orbit in power armor. I'd call that "space marines". And, yes, I know they're referred to as infantry.

-- Alex

Dude, Marines and Infantry are totally not the same thing, unless you decide that semantics aren't important or anything - and where would that road take us? Agreeing that setting comparison doesn't make your own setting of choice any cooler/crappier than it was when you started? Even *gasp* that placing fictional universes side by side is like commenting that apples are so much fruitier than oranges?

Awesome!!! I can fire a rifle, Alex, does that make me a member of SF?

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Gads, I see this thread has degenerated into a lot of Smurf players going "OMG, I am no longer the most beardy and unbalanced army in the game, this is so unfair!"

I'm sorry, but you're just superhuman. 8 feet and enhanced musculatre is not going to make you capable of wrestling a carnifex to the ground, no matter how much you want it. The main reason the Marines are so scary is because they are fast, mobile and utterly fearless. A prepared Guard regiment with supporting troops is considerably more powerful both in fluff terms and game terms than a Space marine Chapter (discounting battleships), given that the smallest Guard regiments have around 3-4 thousand (elite) men, and the largest top 20 to 30 thousand (Death Korps, Valhallans etc).

We are the more powerful war machine. You are simply there to fight the battles that can be deceided quickly, or to support us like you did on Armageddon or Cadia (many thanks for that).