Spanking your kids and parenting

[TsunamiWombat]

This is an offshoot of the "8 year old wants to buy GoW2?" thread in Gaming Discussion, where we got to discussing parenting techniques and the possibility of spanking your children to enforce boundaries and respect. Oh, and lets keep this discussion respectful too while we're at it.

I will say this upfront. I NEVER condone striking a child in -ANY- way out of anger. My father NEVER touched me out of anger (my mother did once actually, funny story that but for another time). Nor do I condone BEATING or really STRIKING a child, ever. Spanking is a measured slap designed to sting, made against fatty tissue infamously located on the gluttious maximus.

My thoughts were this:

I'm not saying "Smack the kid around". I'm saying sometimes 'pain' is the only thing the brain responds to. It's an instinctual stimulus that lets us know "don't do that". Emotions are only the icing on top of the instinct filled cake that is the simian human brain. It's INSTINCTUAL for offspring to defy or bicker with their parents, and to do 'stupid' things while exploring their world and the boundaries around them. Like it or not, we are defined by what it 'hurts' or is unpleasent for us to do. If doing wrong things is never made unpleasent - or at the opposite end, if unpleasentness is made common to our minds, which is the problem that occurs when people use physical ramification too much or in too great an extreme - then we will never fully 'get' the consequences to ourselves and those around us.

My reasoning is this- how do you know fire is hot? How do you know what 'hot' is? Simple answer is you burn yourself. It can be explained to you unlimited times, but until your actually burned you won't get it. Morality and propriety are abstract concepts. Sometimes, a kid will get them on their own. Sometimes, creative teaching will be necessary. Sometimes in an extreme situation a child will have to be spanked so they realize there are consequences to their actions.

Now, I won't deny there are counter arguments with sound logic. I learned way back in basic pysche that spanking kids 'teaches them violence is acceptable'. I don't necessarily agree totally- I believe it is very possible to teach children violence is acceptable if you do it incorrectly. I do however understand every child is different and in some cases, spanking is wholly unnecessary. It's simply my belief that the concept shouldn't be ruled out as 'barbaric' or 'ineffective'.

 

[chronobreak]

I got the brains knocked out of me regularly as a child, because I did stupid things, didn't listen, and it may be wrong but hell it straightened me right out. Spanking, or even a good slap upside the head is a more personal experience and maybe even more lesson-teaching than taking away your kids Nintendo. So I would have to say not for every kid, but damn some brats just need that to jar them into a state of mind where they're more responsive to the edicts their parents lay down.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

It's not ineffective, it's similar to training animals, when they associate an act like breaking a rule with pain when they get a spanking afterwards they don't do it anymore.

In the UK smacking (I can't get over calling it spanking) the law allows smacking as long as a mark isn't left behind but it's a bit ridiculous when you consider how parents can regulate the strength of a smack or if a child bruises easily.

I don't think smacking is really acceptable in modern society anymore though, but I still think pulling them by the ear forcefully and sitting them in a corner for a good long time would be.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I've only been spanked once and that was because I stabbed a kid in the back with a pair of scissors in the first grade.

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

I will say this upfront. I NEVER condone striking a child in -ANY- way out of anger. My father NEVER touched me out of anger (my mother did once actually, funny story that but for another time). Nor do I condone BEATING or really STRIKING a child, ever.

What if he's, like, trying to kill you? With a knife or some shit?

... sorry, I know that wasn't your point.

My parents never hit me-- I like to think that I turned out better than most. I honestly don't think pain should be the thing that motivates a child to do the right thing, although I won't argue that it is an effective method to get them to stop doing something... in some cases. But when a child begins to associate his parents with pain, dysfunction begins. They grow apart from their parents-- get angry at their parents. Disobey them just for the sake of disobeying them. "Tough love" isn't always easy for a developing child to identify.

 

[Bocaj2000]

I agree. When a dog eats a book, he gets smacked on the nose and yelled at. Not in a sense of anger, but a tone of authority. He will no longer eat books. If he does again, he goes to his cage

If a child disrespects his mother, he gets smacked on the ass and yelled at. Not in a sense of anger, but in a tone of discipline. He will no longer disrespect his mother [intentionally]. If he does it again, he gets yelled at and is sent to his room with nothing, not even books, to think about his actions. If he is insubordinate, he will sit there for hours, eventually he'll come to reason.


EDIT:

I should clarify what I said. I wasn't defending child beating. I wasn't saying that if a kid does something minor, he should be hit. What I meant to say is that if my child does something so bad that a spanking would be necessary for that situation, there's nothing wrong with it. The example is a worst case scenario. Like if his mother were to say "good morning" and he said "go fuck yourself."

 

[smallharmlesskitten]

Illegal here but sometimes the little uppity shits deserve a whack or five over the backside

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Mere days ago, my dad hit me out of anger. Not amazingly hard, after all he's a fat old git, but the man hit me in the ribs when I tried to explain why I wasn't the same religion as him. He's a fascist homophobic pig. I'm not actually gay, but his attitude towards homosexuals really gets to me. He is also deeply religious, and likes to think that only his point of view is the only possible right one, no matter what anybody says. He really is that stubborn. If God appeared before him and commanded him to hug a gay man, he would just huff and waddle off.

I would say it is little stretch of the imagination to describe my relationship with him as a deep loathing, and a rather more superficial feeling of hate.

I'm perfectly old enough to know what pain feels like, but he still just decided to hit me. The thing is, my brother had to pull him off before I hit him back, because I suspect that I could beat the crap out of him if I ever felt a real need to. So there : do you think him hitting me without any reason, purpose or, as a matter of fact, consequence, is acceptable?

Some people you just can't reason with, I'm not sympathizing with his views but why did you bait him into getting angry?

 

[Lukeje]

I agree. When a dog eats a book, he gets smacked on the nose and yelled at. Not in a sense of anger, but a tone of authority. He will no longer eat books. If he does again, he goes to his cage

If a child disrespects his mother, he gets smacked on the ass and yelled at. Not in a sense of anger, but in a tone of discipline. He will no longer disrespect his mother [intentionally]. If he does it again, he gets yelled at and is sent to his room with nothing, not even books, to think about his actions. If he is insubordinate, he will sit there for hours, eventually he'll come to reason.

That is one my few personal instances. As long as it's not overdone and is only for the most severe of punishments, it will be effective.

Why the smack? The authoritative tone will work in 99% of cases. It's not the act, but the fear of the act which leads to submission.
And you can't just send a child up to their room to 'think about their actions'. You have to explain what they've done wrong first, otherwise it is a pointless punishment.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Mere days ago, my dad hit me out of anger. Not amazingly hard, after all he's a fat old git, but the man hit me in the ribs when I tried to explain why I wasn't the same religion as him. He's a fascist homophobic pig. I'm not actually gay, but his attitude towards homosexuals really gets to me. He is also deeply religious, and likes to think that only his point of view is the only possible right one, no matter what anybody says. He really is that stubborn. If God appeared before him and commanded him to hug a gay man, he would just huff and waddle off.

I would say it is little stretch of the imagination to describe my relationship with him as a deep loathing, and a rather more superficial feeling of hate.

I'm perfectly old enough to know what pain feels like, but he still just decided to hit me. The thing is, my brother had to pull him off before I hit him back, because I suspect that I could beat the crap out of him if I ever felt a real need to. So there : do you think him hitting me without any reason, purpose or, as a matter of fact, consequence, is acceptable?

No, thats definatly not right or okay.

I can understand other peoples points that indifference is the best way to deal with tantrums- I'm reminded of the "Dog Whisperer" episode of South Park where Ceasar Milan disciplined Cartman. Remember he also pinched the kids neck as a show of dominance the whole show- TSST!

I think connoting spanking with sexual abuse is reading waaaaayyaayy too much into things though. Sorry.

 

[JMeganSnow]

My reasoning is this- how do you know fire is hot? How do you know what 'hot' is? Simple answer is you burn yourself.

This isn't necessarily true, hence the reason why the entire argument is based on a false dichotomy.

You cannot explain dangers to a *very young child* because they haven't yet learned how to reason or to understand a chain of reasoning. When they're in the early mobile stage, however, they are capable of understanding simple cause-and-effect chains like "I touched it, it hurt", so there may be *some* value in allowing children to mildly injure themselves as a part of their pretty much constant scientific inquiry into the world around them. However, it's very hard to predict just how badly a child *will* injure themselves, so this is still probably not a very good strategy.

I adhere to the view that there's no point in striking a very young child to induce pain, because they're not going to associate that pain with what they did wrong, they associate it *with the parent*. It gives them a vested interest in *not getting caught*. It may be permissible to swot a child on the butt in order to convey the fact that game time is over and you are SERIOUS now, but otherwise, no.

Older children can be reasoned with--provided you haven't short-circuited their rational development through, say, irrational displays of temper and intimidation when they were much younger.

 

[Evilbunny]

My parents used to beat the crap out of me when I fucked up, and I turned out fine. I intend to do the same to my son.

 

[Lukeje]

My parents used to beat the crap out of me when I fucked up, and I turned out fine. I intend to do the same to my son.

I think you just exemplified why you shouldn't hit children.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

My parents used to beat the crap out of me when I fucked up, and I turned out fine. I intend to do the same to my son.

Yaahh dude thats...not cool.

Geese, now I know how those people who wanted to preserve the confederate flag for historical purposes felt when the KKK showed up to 'support' them.

"Wait, what? NoOO no nNo we're not.. oh goddamnit I give up"

And indeed I do. I conceed, spanking is unnecessary.