Spanking

[Aethren]

Spanking's for pansies, my parents were military. That meant cans. Held at shoulder-height with arms straight out to your sides. For at least 30 mins. You think it's easy? Go ahead, give it a shot, you'll be thankful you only had spankings.

When a kid misbehaves around me, I cuff the back of their head, Gibbs-style.

 

[Koroviev]

Well, there's reasoning, and then there's evidence. I think your reasoning is strong. Nevertheless, as strong as your reasoning is, I feel that I need evidence to ascertain your assertion. It is by all means reasonable, but that does not necessarily mean it is supported.

I've read about operant conditioning, which is why I am hesitant to classify punishment as something other than punishment.

The definition of Negative Reinforcement is the proof. It is just taking away something unfavorable to increase the frequency of an action. That is really all there is too it. Whether something is punishment or reinforcement depends on the outcome. In negative reinforcement it is the lack of something that encourages a behavior. In both of my examples it is the lack of chores and the lack spanking that is the reinforcement. A definition isn't reason; it is evidence.

I see what you are saying, but that punishment might theoretically be used as negative reinforcement does not make it something other than punishment. Punishment is defined as an aversive stimuli used to change behavior. That a child is aware that they may be punished for certain actions does not make that punishment into negative reinforcement. It is still punishment.

God this gets confusing o__o

 

[TehCookie]

It should be a happy face =D there is now one less unprepared parent in the world! Make sure your lady friend is on the pill too unless you're trying for kids.

Double dutch, nyeh? >

Better safe than sorry !

I do have to get props to you for responding to everyone though.

 

[crudus]

I don't mean that sort of right and wrong, the basic things, 'don't touch' being one, 'don't spit' being another and you can sort of get the idea from there.

If your child doesnt know whats right and wrong at that age, its probably the best time to start teaching them. Especially if they bite, scream and throw a temper tantrum like I did. I was a terror from 3 up to at least 13, from that point I suddenly started behaving myself.

The only reason a 5 year old would know even your rights and wrongs is because they were taught it. Scolding doesn't really do anything to someone who can't understand a language. When someone says "Don't do that, he doesn't know what he is doing" my response is always "that is why I am doing it, so he learns". Learning through punishment and reward is a lot more instinctive than people seem think it is. Or did you mean just spanking shouldn't be aloud that young?

 

[Koroviev]

It should be a happy face =D there is now one less unprepared parent in the world! Make sure your lady friend is on the pill too unless you're trying for kids.

Double dutch, nyeh? >

Better safe than sorry !

I do have to get props to you for responding to everyone though.

Thanks, though I'm not sure that speaks well of my social life <__<;

 

[kikon9]

Beating a child within an inch of their life is not justifiable ever. But, a light smack would do a lot of good for discipline.

 

[Double A]

Yes, certainly. Not too hard, but enough so they know to never, ever to do wrong again. Pain is undesirable, and it teaches kids discipline. I remember being spanked once, in all my life, and I never did whatever I did again. I remember the spanking but not the action. Kind of funny, but then again it's been ~10 years. Even though I don't remember it, though, I do remember the lesson I learned: don't do something that ticks your parents off.

Well I'd prefer other means of punishment besides spanking, however a tap on the hand won't kill them. That doesn't mean I condone kicking the shit out of your kids for misbehaving or even going nuts... However, if my kid is playing up... I have given the odd smack on the hand. I don't like doing it, but I have. I personally prefer telling her off or sending her into the naughty corner or to her bedroom if it gets bad.

Spanking isn't the hand, unless your euphemism for "butt" is "hand."

 

[TehCookie]

Thanks, though I'm not sure that speaks well of my social life <__<;

Nothing wrong with having a night to yourself, unless it's every night...

 

[pulse2]

I don't mean that sort of right and wrong, the basic things, 'don't touch' being one, 'don't spit' being another and you can sort of get the idea from there.

If your child doesnt know whats right and wrong at that age, its probably the best time to start teaching them. Especially if they bite, scream and throw a temper tantrum like I did. I was a terror from 3 up to at least 13, from that point I suddenly started behaving myself.

The only reason a 5 year old would know even your rights and wrongs is because they were taught it. Scolding doesn't really do anything to someone who can't understand a language. When someone says "Don't do that, he doesn't know what he is doing" my response is always "that is why I am doing it, so he learns". Learning through punishment and reward is a lot more instinctive than people seem think it is. Or did you mean just spanking shouldn't be aloud that young?

Demonstration is a key way of teaching rights and wrongs, but I suppose there is a certain nature to children that often makes them want to do anything BUT what you've taught them, your task as a parent is to keep them on that straight and narrow.

I guess many parents will do anything in thier power to make sure that happens. In a sense, it is sort of like learning to ride a bike, you'll get a few bruises along the way, but it will be worth it when you finally learn. Thats sort of how I see certain forms od dscipline, though its when that discipline steps out of hand that parents need discipline of thier own.

 

[TheGreatCoolEnergy]

Some people can be talked into discipline. Some people only understand raw power. We do what we must

Raw power...sounds brutal. It is good practice to insulate all of your wires in an effort to curb the presence of raw power.

Well, I am very sick of this little shit heads running around like they own the world. Parents need to figure out how to fucking keep thier kids in line.

 

[Koroviev]

Thanks, though I'm not sure that speaks well of my social life <__<;

Nothing wrong with having a night to yourself, unless it's every night...

No, I had a friend over last night. I prefer being alone though.

 

[WorldCritic]

Spanking = bad.
Just give them a time out or something... are time outs still used or am I still stuck in the 90s?

 

[Burningsok]

There are better ways to punish a child than physical harm. Maybe an occasional slap on the hand is okay, but don't overuse physical violence as a punishment; it'll only encourage rebellion and/or teach them into using violence themselves.

lol seriously? the only reason kids can be rebellious is when they haven't been taught the lesson soon enough. They don't get the picture in the beginning and have this mindset of me-me-me. They feel like they are entitled to things which they aren't.

I was smacked around if I mouthed off. My mom said she would knock my teeth out if I continued to mouth off at her. Now she's as sweet as sweet as any mom and I turned out to be a pretty decent person, I hate hurting others, and I feel terrible when I do.

Buddy... if you don't draw the line and put your foot down, your kid will figure out how to push your buttons the right why, and you won't be able to get the message across. They will know that you won't touch them, and they will thrive off of it. I'm not saying to beat your kid senseless, I'm saying when you want to really get the message across, a little physical punishment will do just fine. But yeah, for the most part, start with words.

 

[TehCookie]

Thanks, though I'm not sure that speaks well of my social life <__<;

Nothing wrong with having a night to yourself, unless it's every night...

No, I have a friend over last night. I prefer being alone though.

Spoiler: But you're never alone

Wow this is getting off topic...

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

There are better ways to punish a child than physical harm. Maybe an occasional slap on the hand is okay, but don't overuse physical violence as a punishment; it'll only encourage rebellion and/or teach them into using violence themselves.

As opposed to teaching them to manipulate others emotionally when they don't get what they want?

 

[crudus]

Um, if they do not understand language, then they will not understand why it is wrong. They'll think the action gets them in trouble, but they aren't exactly learning much. From their point of view it will just appear arbitrary. Making someone follow rules they find arbitrary doesn't sound like a good way to teach them.

This is how you teach dogs to do anything. When you train a dog (correctly), it doesn't think you are just randomly giving it treats. The dog associates an action such as sitting down with a treat. The dog figures out that when it sits down it gets a treat.

The same can be said for toddlers. When a toddler bites a stranger, said toddler gets hit. The toddler associates biting people with pain. This association decreases the likelihood the toddler will bite strangers. The key in both cases is to have the consequence be within a second of the action. Otherwise yes, it would seem arbitrary.

 

[Koroviev]

Thanks, though I'm not sure that speaks well of my social life <__<;

Nothing wrong with having a night to yourself, unless it's every night...

No, I have a friend over last night. I prefer being alone though.

Spoiler: But you're never alone

Wow this is getting off topic...

Damn, where is my laser gun when I need it <__<

OT: I don't condone spanking cats. The animal animals. Not the other cats...

 

[crudus]

I see what you are saying, but that punishment might theoretically be used as negative reinforcement does not make it something other than punishment. Punishment is defined as an aversive stimuli used to change behavior. That a child is aware that they may be punished for certain actions does not make that punishment into negative reinforcement. It is still punishment.

God this gets confusing o__o

Yes it does. Reinforcement and punishment are mutually exclusive. If it can be theoretically reinforcement then the same scenario can't be punishment in the same manner you can't walk both north and south. They are opposites.

That definition has a fault in it. Change "change" to "decrease" and it is good. Remember: I have been using operant conditioning terms this entire time. By that definition a punishment can increase a behavior which is incorrect. Another example of negative reinforcement is a mouse is put into a cage. The cage floor is constantly shocking the mouse. When the mouse hits a lever the shocking stops. The lack pain is acting as the reinforcement for the mouse to push the lever.

 

[Burningsok]

Spanking's for pansies, my parents were military. That meant cans. Held at shoulder-height with arms straight out to your sides. For at least 30 mins. You think it's easy? Go ahead, give it a shot, you'll be thankful you only had spankings.

When a kid misbehaves around me, I cuff the back of their head, Gibbs-style.

Not bad lol, maybe a little much depending on the kid. I can relate to the cans thing. at around 5 mins of just holding my arms up, they started burning. I had to hold my arms up for 10 mins and jog around in a circle in wrestling practice once. Fuck that burned