Im fairly sure master chief is only about 15-20 no? Space marines are recruited from death worlds (most of them) and are trained for decades, they have superior equipment, numbers, training and experience seeing as Astartes can live for several hundred years. As much as it pains me to side with the Imperium on this one space marines would kick spartens ass.Fidelias said:
Spartan Vs Astartes
- Thread starter orangebandguy
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Are they? Have you seen Kaldor Draigo?! His are stupid as well. (Can't remember them off the top of my head, so I'll give you) Mephiston, who was just wrong:EMFCRACKSHOT said:snip
your stats are more ridiculous than calgars xD and utterly unrealistic.
snip
Argument made
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
7 5 6 6 5 6 4 10 2+
Tell me that isn't wrong! And he's supposed to be the Blood Angels CHIEF LIBRRIAN... Matt Ward, I love you and all, but you're driving me nuts, y'damned astartophile!
And LOL, well said.
I think we could argue with a Spartan's initiative stat all day long. But either way, I'm sure we can agree that: THE EMPEROR'S WRATH HAS NO EQUAL!!
We bow down before such awesome! (Actually, I don't, since I played Harlequins back in the day!)
At the time of the first Halo game, Master Chief is 42.Sam Warrior said:
Hell, let's just lay out all of the Chief's info right here and now:
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/John_117
Wasn't arguing that. Simply clearing up a fact.Sam Warrior said:
Go check out my earlier post in this thread. It'll explain my views on all of this.
Well, both sides are the result of genetic modification. Without bringing the possibility of the Astartes having super abillities or psionics (it all depends on the lineage of the paticular gene seed, they do vary in power) it comes largely down to weapons.
I think most people are wrong in assuming that a Halo assault rifle would be totally ineffective against Space Marine armor. Sluggas and Auto Pistols can bring Space Marines down just fine, especially if you shoot them enough times.
The big factor in deciding this fight is probably going to be a bit that I don't think anyone else mentioned, and that is quite simply that Master Chief has a personal force field. That whole "regenerating health" gimmick that gets such mixed reviews.
To be blunt, personal Force Fields do exist in Warhammer 40k, and they are a BIG deal, a major artifact from the dark age of technology. Something like that is a major force on the battiefield all on it's own, and space marines DO have trouble dealing with gimmicks like that.
Dealing with this conceptually, rather than getting into specific game mechannics on either side (especially seeing as I only really have RPG stats for Warhammer 40k, via things like Rogue Trader, Dark Heresy, and Deathwatch), I think your typical Astartes would have some serious difficulty doing damage to the guy, especially seeing as his force field would keep regenerating by it's very nature.
In general I'd say MASTER CHIEF as a major hero, would trash your typical Astartes. You put him up against a hero level Space Marine armed with chapter relics, and it would be a lot more even. Unit for Unit I'd say the Spartans would bet a bit better, largely because of the shields, overall I'd say the two types of troops are almost identical, but the Astartes as they exist as of the time of Warhammer 40k are a mere shadow of what they once were, using a lot of technology they don't fully understand, and having lost a lot of their best tricks due to simple decay over thousands of years. The Spartans on the other hand are fully prepped with state of the art tech that has just come off of an assembly line (so to speak) as opposed to spending thousands of years being repaired and rebuilt.
To get into things mechanics wise, if someone was to ask me to build Master Chief or a Spartan within say the "Deathwatch" mechanics (ignoring the basic character generation, just assiging relevent stats) it would be very similar to what the Space Marines have, but as I said I'd be loading him with Archaotech for things like the force field, and he'd wind up being a borderline munchkin.
I'd also remind people that Space Marines are tough, but they get trashed by relatively ordinary stuff all the time. Within the Warhammer 40k universe, I don't even think they are pound for pound the best unit the Imperium can actually field. A lot of the special forces units of groups like The Imperial Guard can come very close, and you have guys like Spyrers, who are hive nobles with powered armor, who have weapons and gimmicks at least as good as the Space Marines overall when you look at what they are actually packing. It's also not totally unheard of for relatively normal guys, albiet ones who are heroic, like various Comissars and such to be able to best enemies like Chaos Marines in hand to hand combat.
I think the problem is that it depends on who is writing things, and how "yahoo" they tend to be getting at the moment. Conceptually, the Astartes are tough, but far from being invincible. Even in the minatures game, a couple of bad (for the marines) rolls and a squad with autoguns or sluggas can gun down a squad of elite space marines.
I think most people are wrong in assuming that a Halo assault rifle would be totally ineffective against Space Marine armor. Sluggas and Auto Pistols can bring Space Marines down just fine, especially if you shoot them enough times.
The big factor in deciding this fight is probably going to be a bit that I don't think anyone else mentioned, and that is quite simply that Master Chief has a personal force field. That whole "regenerating health" gimmick that gets such mixed reviews.
To be blunt, personal Force Fields do exist in Warhammer 40k, and they are a BIG deal, a major artifact from the dark age of technology. Something like that is a major force on the battiefield all on it's own, and space marines DO have trouble dealing with gimmicks like that.
Dealing with this conceptually, rather than getting into specific game mechannics on either side (especially seeing as I only really have RPG stats for Warhammer 40k, via things like Rogue Trader, Dark Heresy, and Deathwatch), I think your typical Astartes would have some serious difficulty doing damage to the guy, especially seeing as his force field would keep regenerating by it's very nature.
In general I'd say MASTER CHIEF as a major hero, would trash your typical Astartes. You put him up against a hero level Space Marine armed with chapter relics, and it would be a lot more even. Unit for Unit I'd say the Spartans would bet a bit better, largely because of the shields, overall I'd say the two types of troops are almost identical, but the Astartes as they exist as of the time of Warhammer 40k are a mere shadow of what they once were, using a lot of technology they don't fully understand, and having lost a lot of their best tricks due to simple decay over thousands of years. The Spartans on the other hand are fully prepped with state of the art tech that has just come off of an assembly line (so to speak) as opposed to spending thousands of years being repaired and rebuilt.
To get into things mechanics wise, if someone was to ask me to build Master Chief or a Spartan within say the "Deathwatch" mechanics (ignoring the basic character generation, just assiging relevent stats) it would be very similar to what the Space Marines have, but as I said I'd be loading him with Archaotech for things like the force field, and he'd wind up being a borderline munchkin.
I'd also remind people that Space Marines are tough, but they get trashed by relatively ordinary stuff all the time. Within the Warhammer 40k universe, I don't even think they are pound for pound the best unit the Imperium can actually field. A lot of the special forces units of groups like The Imperial Guard can come very close, and you have guys like Spyrers, who are hive nobles with powered armor, who have weapons and gimmicks at least as good as the Space Marines overall when you look at what they are actually packing. It's also not totally unheard of for relatively normal guys, albiet ones who are heroic, like various Comissars and such to be able to best enemies like Chaos Marines in hand to hand combat.
I think the problem is that it depends on who is writing things, and how "yahoo" they tend to be getting at the moment. Conceptually, the Astartes are tough, but far from being invincible. Even in the minatures game, a couple of bad (for the marines) rolls and a squad with autoguns or sluggas can gun down a squad of elite space marines.
wow, they really beefed mephiston up since third edition xD (last time i looked at the blood angels codex xD still havent looked though the new one. Black Templars have always been my babies xD)SckizoBoy said:
And the whole new grey knights codex is just insane. Still no match for my massed ranks of lasguns and my formations of leman russ xD
The grey knights don't tend to fare too well against horde armies. Their best units end up slogging their way through my conscripts for the entire game, leaving me to mop up around the objectives.
The leman russ punisher with pask in it was made to chew through marines xD 29 strength 5 shots, hitting on threes, wounding on threes. bye bye paladin squad.
And all shall fall beneath the emperors mercy. at least until his throne breaks and he dies xD
Heh. See what you did there, I.Lewis672 said:
The problem with comparing DoW2 with any scenario in this thread is everything in the 40k'verse is so much more powerful than a Halo Spartan.
At which point he becomes a god.EMFCRACKSHOT said:
GLHF.
if you've read through the novels for both series then you would probably know that physically the spartans and space marines go through pretty similar processes to make them super human and at the end of it are probably fairly equal in physical prowess (in one of the hell jumper comic a child indoctrinated into the spartan program kills a veteran hell jumper with a single punch).
the main difference is the vast gulf in the tech that both bring to the table. the space marine has thousands of years of evolved technology and advancements on the spartan. his boltgun could rip through the Mk6 like it was tissue paper while the assault rifle would bounce off the power armour.
a boxing match between the two of them would be a closer fight, unless it occured in the vacuum of space, then the space marine would probably have the edge.
the main difference is the vast gulf in the tech that both bring to the table. the space marine has thousands of years of evolved technology and advancements on the spartan. his boltgun could rip through the Mk6 like it was tissue paper while the assault rifle would bounce off the power armour.
a boxing match between the two of them would be a closer fight, unless it occured in the vacuum of space, then the space marine would probably have the edge.
A rather pointless thread if you will. A Space Marine has far more combat experience, more advanced technologies and superior in nearly every way which everyone else lovingly pointed out.
Comparing the best soldiers from 2 very different time periods is unfair.
EDIT:Man this thread is fucking hilarious, there have been so many hilarious posts. When will a Mod lock this thread up? It was broken from the start you know!
Comparing the best soldiers from 2 very different time periods is unfair.
Didn't Spartans get trained since they were 6? Nevertheless, Space Marines go through far more vigorous training and they live for hundreds of years so I think they have more experience.Fidelias said:
There, you have your /thread.HerbertTheHamster said:
EDIT:Man this thread is fucking hilarious, there have been so many hilarious posts. When will a Mod lock this thread up? It was broken from the start you know!
It seems a lot of people arguing in a Spartan's favour are using either his shields or his dexterity (or both) as the reason he'd win.
Let's tackle his shields first. So Spartans have personal energy shield, that in no way, shape or form has ever blocked a direct rocket to the face. Boltguns fire the appropriately named bolts at a rather fast rate and, quoting from the Lexicanum here, "The bolt is more a miniature explosive rocket than a conventional bullet." This pretty much removes the shield argument.
Now a Spartan's dexterity. I'm assuming most of the people who've used this as an argument have googled 'Space Marine', looked at the armour and thought 'Aha, they have big armour but they must be slow as sin.' I'm also assuming these people know nothing of 40k. As has been so commonly stated in this thread, whatever a Space Marine can do out of his armour, he can do in his armour and better; it is in no way a hindrance for a Space Marine.
Of course the huge flaw in all of this is comparing anything to Space Marines, they were made to be so incredibly OTT, everything in the 40k universe is; I mean for the love of christ just look!
This is more apt to comparing a toothpick to a claymore. Sure you can kill someone with a toothpick, but it's never going to compare to a claymore in terms of killing, now is it?
Let's tackle his shields first. So Spartans have personal energy shield, that in no way, shape or form has ever blocked a direct rocket to the face. Boltguns fire the appropriately named bolts at a rather fast rate and, quoting from the Lexicanum here, "The bolt is more a miniature explosive rocket than a conventional bullet." This pretty much removes the shield argument.
Now a Spartan's dexterity. I'm assuming most of the people who've used this as an argument have googled 'Space Marine', looked at the armour and thought 'Aha, they have big armour but they must be slow as sin.' I'm also assuming these people know nothing of 40k. As has been so commonly stated in this thread, whatever a Space Marine can do out of his armour, he can do in his armour and better; it is in no way a hindrance for a Space Marine.
Of course the huge flaw in all of this is comparing anything to Space Marines, they were made to be so incredibly OTT, everything in the 40k universe is; I mean for the love of christ just look!
This is more apt to comparing a toothpick to a claymore. Sure you can kill someone with a toothpick, but it's never going to compare to a claymore in terms of killing, now is it?
He's already a God, just without status haha.Loop Stricken said:
He' strong enough to have survived inside the Warp with all 4 Chaos Gods trying to kill him non-stop for 10,000 years, and STILL drive the Astronomicon.
The God-Emperor by name, God-Emperor by nature.
Liquid Ocelot said:
This is assuming it will be played out on tabletop - where a laspistol can kill a battle brother.
I think not, I remember that in one IG codex it states that officers can be given bolt weapons, I know Arbites can too (I hope...) and they suffer no ill effects.
Okay - now reading from the second latest codex:
Commissar Yarrick - Storm-Bolter, master crafted
Colonel-Commissar Gaunt - Bolt pistol
Lieutenant Kage - Bolt pistol
'Officers Armoury' - Bolt pistol, Bolt gun, Storm-Bolter
Yeah, of course - armour of 3 can take on an airstrike, it's at least Krak missile, probably closer to battle cannon in strength.
Didn't one chapter (Dark Angels) abandon the flank of the Space Wolves in an assault on somewhere so they could charge in and get a better kill count? I believed it was bad form to leave your allotted positions in a battle line - especially if friendlies die because of your blunder. And I thought that the Grey Knights (a Space Marine chapter) had all non-SM survivors of the first war for Armageddon olaced in concentration camps until death (Space Wolves most displeased).
Space Wolves, just Space Wolves.
Gaunt and his (named) men along with Cain, they aren't nuts yet. Oh sorry, I forgot: 'all non-Cadians are cowards'.
I must say...
What about the Valhallans, Steel Legions, Death Korps, Tanith First and Only, Tallarns, Harakoni Warhawks, Mordian Iron Guard, Catachan Jungle Fighters, Elysian Drop Troops, the men who fought with the Space Wolves on Armageddon, Terrax Guard...
The list goes on.
Thats all I can reply at the moment as my current gen SM, SW and IG codices are with a friend and I can only use my (4th gen?) old IG codex.