I think there is something important about Finn. Why is he the only storm trooper to break his conditioning and do the right thing? I think Ren sensed this and was not just sensing his defiance. Why of all the places on the entire planet he could have crash landed, he landed within walking distance of the very droid they were looking for? It is one of two things: bad writing or the force. Since I am a fan and I can suspend my disbelief and have fun, I choose the force. He certainly is not Rey powerful, who I feel is the person with the most potential of all Jedis, but there is something there.
Star Wars Force Awakens Spoiler Filled discussion thread (no spoiler tags, you've been warned)
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Well there's also the fact that Poe was piloting and he knew which way BB8 was going and how long he had to run, so he'd likely have piloted his ship in the direction of the nearest settlement he'd likely have gone towards. Which, given how it took him about a day of walking to reach it, makes sense if Poe was in fact trying to land at the outpost.BaronVH said:
Just got back from my second viewing of the movie. Thought of a few more things.
-The detail given for some things is insane. Kylo Ren's lightsaber is a fantastic example. Since he uses a crudely put together lightsaber, built from an ancient design, his blade is not as contained as others. The detail they put into that is awesome.
-Kylo Ren has the same brute force power as Darth Vader, which is shown by how insane his power with it is. Even though he seems to be rather untrained in its usage.
-The detail given for some things is insane. Kylo Ren's lightsaber is a fantastic example. Since he uses a crudely put together lightsaber, built from an ancient design, his blade is not as contained as others. The detail they put into that is awesome.
-Kylo Ren has the same brute force power as Darth Vader, which is shown by how insane his power with it is. Even though he seems to be rather untrained in its usage.
I don't know, he can hold people in place or force chock someone by making THEM move into his hand as he does so, I think that shows a bit of mastery of the more brute force side of the force. Now of course that leads to the problem that the fight between him and Rey is even more unbelievable then it already was that she somehow managed to not only hold her own but in defiance of logic win, but that's neither here nor there.Elfgore said:
I agree with the second and third paragraphs here. One of my biggest problems with this film is its refusal to show proper scope. IV (the movie it's trying oh so hard to imitate) does a better job at making the galaxy feel so much larger than what we see in VII. Alderaan is just a planet. It's horrible, to be sure, but it also characterizes how the Empire sees planets: resources that can be destroyed to keep order. You understand so much about the Empire and the Reblelion both in size and scope in that one scene. VII on the other hand has the First Order destroy the capital star system of the Republic. Oh? You thought that The FIrst Order destroyed the entire Republic? Well, so did I until I read online. This movie does such a bad job at giving scope. It really feels like the Republic is one system large and the First Order controls maybe two systems at max.Elfgore said:
Though if you want to know the factions...
First Order: Formed from the remnants of the old Empire, secretly led by Snooke. Tries to be the Empire oh so badly.
Republic: The government founded after the Rebellion succeeds. Does not want to go to official war with the First Order because reasons.
Resistance: The way the Republic wars against the First Order without officially warring against the First Order. The Resistance is a "rouge" (since they're being funded by the Republic) splinter of the Republic that wages war against The FIrst Order. They have no fleet but since the Republic "looses" its fleet to the Resistance, they're essentially a strike force of the Republic against the First Order.
Also Kylo Ren is a pathetic villain.
OT: I surprisingly didn't hate this movie, but I didn't love it either. I think from the beginning until they leave Jakku is great. Unfortunately the movie falls apart for me after that. I don't care for the villains, the plot is a retread, all "twists" are easily called and worst of all, I predicted exactly what happens in the final lightsaber battle. I shouldn't have done that. It shouldn't have been that easy to predict.
Here's what I'd give it...
Spectacle: 9/10
Entertainment: 9/10
Action: 8/10
Story: 7/10
Characters: 8/10
It was certainly much better than the Prequels, I'll give it that. But chalk me up as one of the ones who has a bit of an issue with just how much the story is a retelling of A New Hope. I wouldn't mind for there to be some references to the previous movies - one would almost even expect it - but for it to be a damn-near point-by-point retelling of the first movie? I thought that was a bit much.
Also, what's the deal with the SW universe and insisting that every planet is made up entirely by one environment? Desert planet. Ice planet. Jungle planet. Water planet. City planet. Apparently diversity isn't something that exists in a galaxy far, far away. I understand that not every world is going to be as diverse as Earth, but one would think that if a planet is in the habitable life-zone of it's star, chances are it's not going to be entirely composed of a single environment.
I thought the characters were decent enough, though Finn's humor seemed a bit forced at times. And speaking of "forced"...
What's the deal with Rey going from a complete rookie who didn't even know she has Force powers to suddenly being a full-blown Jedi Knight in the matter of 10 minutes with absolutely 0 training or experience? I can accept that she has latent Force abilities which gives her a natural resistance to Ren's mind-probing Force technique. But she didn't even know - or believe - that she had Force powers...2 minutes later she's successfully executing the Jedi Mind Trick (how did she even know that was a thing?) and apparently her completely untrained Force Pull is strong enough to yank Luke's lightsaber away from Ren's Force Pull. Ren...who has been shown stopping a blaster shot and holding it in mid-air for quite some time. I can accept that she gives herself over to the Force and lets it guide her actions - that's what Luke does to blow up the Death Star - and win the duel against Ren. But the rest of the stuff...she goes from being a helpless captive to "Ok, well I guess I'm officially a space wizard now" with no training, practice, guidance, or experience. I found that to be a bit much.
Spectacle: 9/10
Entertainment: 9/10
Action: 8/10
Story: 7/10
Characters: 8/10
It was certainly much better than the Prequels, I'll give it that. But chalk me up as one of the ones who has a bit of an issue with just how much the story is a retelling of A New Hope. I wouldn't mind for there to be some references to the previous movies - one would almost even expect it - but for it to be a damn-near point-by-point retelling of the first movie? I thought that was a bit much.
Also, what's the deal with the SW universe and insisting that every planet is made up entirely by one environment? Desert planet. Ice planet. Jungle planet. Water planet. City planet. Apparently diversity isn't something that exists in a galaxy far, far away. I understand that not every world is going to be as diverse as Earth, but one would think that if a planet is in the habitable life-zone of it's star, chances are it's not going to be entirely composed of a single environment.
I thought the characters were decent enough, though Finn's humor seemed a bit forced at times. And speaking of "forced"...
What's the deal with Rey going from a complete rookie who didn't even know she has Force powers to suddenly being a full-blown Jedi Knight in the matter of 10 minutes with absolutely 0 training or experience? I can accept that she has latent Force abilities which gives her a natural resistance to Ren's mind-probing Force technique. But she didn't even know - or believe - that she had Force powers...2 minutes later she's successfully executing the Jedi Mind Trick (how did she even know that was a thing?) and apparently her completely untrained Force Pull is strong enough to yank Luke's lightsaber away from Ren's Force Pull. Ren...who has been shown stopping a blaster shot and holding it in mid-air for quite some time. I can accept that she gives herself over to the Force and lets it guide her actions - that's what Luke does to blow up the Death Star - and win the duel against Ren. But the rest of the stuff...she goes from being a helpless captive to "Ok, well I guess I'm officially a space wizard now" with no training, practice, guidance, or experience. I found that to be a bit much.
After I've seen it I'm kina torn.
It is not as bad as any of the prequels so that's a plus.
And that's kinda it...
Flinn is just thrown in there.
A apparently since early childhood brainwashed trooper that on its first sortie immediately goes against his brainwashing despite until then apparently never ever standing out because... plot says so.
Let me just say that the clone troopers were always a lazy plot device. An army of genetically obedient people led by few evil men to rule the galaxy... why? Because the writer didn't come up with a compelling reason for normal human beings joining the empire - That's why.
Children being abducted and brainwashed is just as lazy. Seems to me it was only made this way to avoid casting Temuero Morrison and generating CGI clones again.
I think even Star Wars can cope with a bit of grey.
If he was a normal guy forced to participate in the slaughter of a village I may get why he would want to defect... but brainwashed since early childhood without any previous irregularities? - Does not compute.
Going against your brainwashing as cold soldier includes getting a sense of humor apparently.
Not to mention the janitor gets to know all the facilities details. He needs to know every corner and how it works since he has to clean it...
Rey comes off as shallow and some sort of Mary Sue.
I get it: She can use the force.
But judging from the flashback she was left on Jakku when she was around 6 or something. No training whatsoever since then, yet she beats a supposedly way better and longer trained Sith...
It reflects badly on Kylo Ren and doesn't help making Rey compelling either.
And where are her flaws or shortcomings? There was nothing she couldn't do or handle.
I get it, it made 0 sense that Luke went from whatever the fuck he was flying on Tatooine shooting Womprats to an X-Wing. At least back then they had the decency to not shove it into your face that the character supposedly has no fucking clue, build it up at least a little bit (bar scene "I'm a good pilot" and base scene "Womprat shooting") nor did they show him doing the craziest maneuvers on a whim... Rey does all that. She outright tells Flinn that she had no idea what she was doing and still outperformed trained pilots of the first order in a stellar fashion.
Luke was unexperienced with rough environments coming from a sheltered home as seen in the bar scene.
Rey never displays some sort of trust issues which a character that grew up in a harsh and selfish environment might have.
Kylo Ren where to start...
He gets his ass handed to him by a brainwashed trooper (laser blast to the stomach and one cut with the sword), a force sensitive women with far less training (resisting his mind trick, defeats him in duel) and unleashes his frustration on the equipment twice...
In short he is a wuss.
His masked design is good but too bad he takes off his helmet/mask during every important scene diminishing his presence with his baby face.
Furthermore at the current state of the story his motives are shrouded.He is doing all this because... whatever watch the next movie.
Seems like he might get some Sith corruption and a scar on his face in the next movie... so at least less baby face. But honestly it didn't help making Hayden Christensen intimidating in Revenge of the Sith either...
Poe is some sort of fan written Wedge?
Best pilot okay but that good? - Common he could fight the entire fleet alone... and that's the issue.
His flight skills are just too exaggerated.
We get rather underperforming light saber battles and completely over the top star fighter action.
Captain Phasma... was there and did nothing.
Except proving that even the elite can't do shit. Makes you wonder how the first order gets anything done when faced with god like pilots like Poe...
Missed opportunity to get the grey in as Phasma could have served as some sort of idol to Flinn giving him a natural reason why someone would want to join the forces.
Later he could have been disgusted by the action on the planet and disappointed by his idol of valor and strength.
But yea... let's go with brainwashing kids, so much better...
As for the original cast: I guess it was too much Han and the reintroduction of Han and Chewbacca by capturing the Falcon with a freighter and their shady double dealing felt kind of forced and gimmicky.
Leia as general and Luke as Jedi master felt way more organic and plot related.
Other than that it rehashed a lot of plot points of the original movies and blew them up in proportion:
Not one planet died but 6 (?).
The base is an entire planet now and no artificial moon.
Android with plans has to be brought back to the Rebels.
Family member turned to the dark side.
Kid with no family of first degree gets to be Jedi later on.
Like I said its okayish... the biggest selling point currently is that it is better than the prequels.
It is not as bad as any of the prequels so that's a plus.
And that's kinda it...
Flinn is just thrown in there.
A apparently since early childhood brainwashed trooper that on its first sortie immediately goes against his brainwashing despite until then apparently never ever standing out because... plot says so.
Let me just say that the clone troopers were always a lazy plot device. An army of genetically obedient people led by few evil men to rule the galaxy... why? Because the writer didn't come up with a compelling reason for normal human beings joining the empire - That's why.
Children being abducted and brainwashed is just as lazy. Seems to me it was only made this way to avoid casting Temuero Morrison and generating CGI clones again.
I think even Star Wars can cope with a bit of grey.
If he was a normal guy forced to participate in the slaughter of a village I may get why he would want to defect... but brainwashed since early childhood without any previous irregularities? - Does not compute.
Going against your brainwashing as cold soldier includes getting a sense of humor apparently.
Not to mention the janitor gets to know all the facilities details. He needs to know every corner and how it works since he has to clean it...
Rey comes off as shallow and some sort of Mary Sue.
I get it: She can use the force.
But judging from the flashback she was left on Jakku when she was around 6 or something. No training whatsoever since then, yet she beats a supposedly way better and longer trained Sith...
It reflects badly on Kylo Ren and doesn't help making Rey compelling either.
And where are her flaws or shortcomings? There was nothing she couldn't do or handle.
I get it, it made 0 sense that Luke went from whatever the fuck he was flying on Tatooine shooting Womprats to an X-Wing. At least back then they had the decency to not shove it into your face that the character supposedly has no fucking clue, build it up at least a little bit (bar scene "I'm a good pilot" and base scene "Womprat shooting") nor did they show him doing the craziest maneuvers on a whim... Rey does all that. She outright tells Flinn that she had no idea what she was doing and still outperformed trained pilots of the first order in a stellar fashion.
Luke was unexperienced with rough environments coming from a sheltered home as seen in the bar scene.
Rey never displays some sort of trust issues which a character that grew up in a harsh and selfish environment might have.
Kylo Ren where to start...
He gets his ass handed to him by a brainwashed trooper (laser blast to the stomach and one cut with the sword), a force sensitive women with far less training (resisting his mind trick, defeats him in duel) and unleashes his frustration on the equipment twice...
In short he is a wuss.
His masked design is good but too bad he takes off his helmet/mask during every important scene diminishing his presence with his baby face.
Furthermore at the current state of the story his motives are shrouded.He is doing all this because... whatever watch the next movie.
Seems like he might get some Sith corruption and a scar on his face in the next movie... so at least less baby face. But honestly it didn't help making Hayden Christensen intimidating in Revenge of the Sith either...
Poe is some sort of fan written Wedge?
Best pilot okay but that good? - Common he could fight the entire fleet alone... and that's the issue.
His flight skills are just too exaggerated.
We get rather underperforming light saber battles and completely over the top star fighter action.
Captain Phasma... was there and did nothing.
Except proving that even the elite can't do shit. Makes you wonder how the first order gets anything done when faced with god like pilots like Poe...
Missed opportunity to get the grey in as Phasma could have served as some sort of idol to Flinn giving him a natural reason why someone would want to join the forces.
Later he could have been disgusted by the action on the planet and disappointed by his idol of valor and strength.
But yea... let's go with brainwashing kids, so much better...
As for the original cast: I guess it was too much Han and the reintroduction of Han and Chewbacca by capturing the Falcon with a freighter and their shady double dealing felt kind of forced and gimmicky.
Leia as general and Luke as Jedi master felt way more organic and plot related.
Other than that it rehashed a lot of plot points of the original movies and blew them up in proportion:
Not one planet died but 6 (?).
The base is an entire planet now and no artificial moon.
Android with plans has to be brought back to the Rebels.
Family member turned to the dark side.
Kid with no family of first degree gets to be Jedi later on.
Like I said its okayish... the biggest selling point currently is that it is better than the prequels.
I loved a lot of different parts of the movie and it gives me hope for sure, but overall it's kind of disappointing.
My biggest problem is that it's just a remake of the first movie. It plays it way to safe in that regard and feels lazy. I understand the "give the fans what they want" mentality but this was a little much.
I understand maybe having the same situations so we can see how the new characters react differently - like Rey proactively escaping or wanting to go back to the planet instead of leaving, Finn questioning the atrocities of the "Empire," and a bad guy trying to resist the light instead of the other way around. The plot structure being so similar is way too much though - Hang around on a desert planet, bar of scum and villainy, prison break, blow up a death star.
The writing wasn't the best and also all the little nods and winks at the audience got a little distracting. Rey being a total fan girl, Kylo Ren saying "It's just us now" to Finn and Rey after Han is gone. It makes it feel like a fan film (which it basically is) instead of a true continuation.
I wanted new characters with new threats and stories. I wanted MORE Star Wars not ANOTHER Star Wars.
My biggest problem is that it's just a remake of the first movie. It plays it way to safe in that regard and feels lazy. I understand the "give the fans what they want" mentality but this was a little much.
I understand maybe having the same situations so we can see how the new characters react differently - like Rey proactively escaping or wanting to go back to the planet instead of leaving, Finn questioning the atrocities of the "Empire," and a bad guy trying to resist the light instead of the other way around. The plot structure being so similar is way too much though - Hang around on a desert planet, bar of scum and villainy, prison break, blow up a death star.
The writing wasn't the best and also all the little nods and winks at the audience got a little distracting. Rey being a total fan girl, Kylo Ren saying "It's just us now" to Finn and Rey after Han is gone. It makes it feel like a fan film (which it basically is) instead of a true continuation.
I wanted new characters with new threats and stories. I wanted MORE Star Wars not ANOTHER Star Wars.
Why don't you try building a moon sized space station with a massive laser and deal with the heat issues that arise. It's a miracle it was so small. The problem in space isn't cold but heat. There is no convection just radiations which is terrible at removing heat.Dazzle Novak said:
Well I FINALLY got around to watching it a second time (blasted inconsistent work schedule!), and I found myself enjoying it more than I did the first time. My original nitpicks [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.931612-Star-Wars-Force-Awakens-Spoiler-Filled-discussion-thread-no-spoiler-tags-youve-been-warned?page=3#comment_form] still stand, but I don't have as much of an issue with them now. Perhaps I just needed to adjust to the different style Abrams brought to the film (it's the first movie of his that I've seen).
I have a theory that Finn is a jedi as well- The whole 'Force awakening' stuff isn't just relevant to Rey, it's what caused him to break his conditioning. Given that in previous films it's explained that non-force users have a real hard time using lightsabers and he uses one fairly well considering his lack of training, it makes sense. I'd actually be a little annoyed if he's not, it would devalue lightsabers a bit if anyone could learn to use them.BaronVH said:
I just realized something: Rey is filler that could easily be written out of the plot.
Think about it: all she does is point BB9 towards an outpost, flies the Falcon, saves Finn from a situation everyone knows is pointless filler, gets captured, immediately escapes and then gets into a fight with Kylo.
Here's the thing though, Finn could easily have all the set pieces for the plot happen without her being there. Outside of needing a pilot for the escape from Jakku she could be removed completely. Have someone, anyone, pilot the Falcon for that one scene and change Finn's motivation for helping the Resistance be genuinely wanting to help and boom, you've written one of the dual protagonists out of the movie completely.
Think about it: all she does is point BB9 towards an outpost, flies the Falcon, saves Finn from a situation everyone knows is pointless filler, gets captured, immediately escapes and then gets into a fight with Kylo.
Here's the thing though, Finn could easily have all the set pieces for the plot happen without her being there. Outside of needing a pilot for the escape from Jakku she could be removed completely. Have someone, anyone, pilot the Falcon for that one scene and change Finn's motivation for helping the Resistance be genuinely wanting to help and boom, you've written one of the dual protagonists out of the movie completely.
I have seen it! I can wander the internet unafraid once again!
Oh, the movie?
Ehhhh... it was alright. Kept me entertained for the duration.
Jesus Christ though, the rehash is real!
I was expecting it to be drenched in nostalgia and callbacks, but that was fucking next level. I understand their business reasons for playing it safe, but that's in a safety league all of its own. They damn near just remade the original movie.
Well, now that it's made metric fuckton of cash maybe they'll grow some balls for the next one.
Oh, the movie?
Ehhhh... it was alright. Kept me entertained for the duration.
Jesus Christ though, the rehash is real!
I was expecting it to be drenched in nostalgia and callbacks, but that was fucking next level. I understand their business reasons for playing it safe, but that's in a safety league all of its own. They damn near just remade the original movie.
Well, now that it's made metric fuckton of cash maybe they'll grow some balls for the next one.
Search your feelings and you'll know it's NOT true.Zhukov said:
It was alright. Rey's supersensitivity to the force was ridiculous and actually so was Kylo surviving that bowcaster shot. The tentacle monsters were dumb CGI, but a lot of the other stuff looked really nice. They make flashy spectacle for the kids. I shouldn't really think too much about it. Twitch chat spoiled the Han Yolo, though I was kinda certain he would've kicked it anyway.
Damn right!inu-kun said:
Can you imagine the reaction to a female character missing a limb?
Our oversensitive society would buckle under the weight of the ensuing outrage! There would be blood! The SJWs would riot in the streets!
No script writer would ever dare allow such a shocking spectacle to make the screen.
To say nothing of the fact that "mutilation" in the Star Wars universe tends to be a rather short term proposition. It's not like we watch ol' Stumpy Skywalker running around for ROTJ. He has a new, entirely human looking hand back within about five minutes of losing the previous one.Zhukov said:Damn right!inu-kun said:
Can you imagine the reaction to a female character missing a limb?
Our oversensitive society would buckle under the weight of the ensuing outrage! There would be blood! The SJWs would riot in the streets!
No script writer would ever dare allow such a shocking spectacle to make the screen.
There are actually very few setbacks inside the Star Wars OT universe that have any real staying power. Both Ben Kenobi and Yoda are back in short order as instructive Force Ghosts. Han is out of the carbonite with no real ill effects beside some brief wooziness in the first act of the next film (if it was a TV serial, he'd have been out of commission for about half an episode), both Droids get shot up but reassembled without any lasting harm, Luke has a fully functional and completely normal looking hand back at the end of Empire, his Wampa beating is covered by 3 seconds of screen time in a Kolto tank, etc, etc.
They're not exactly the Saw franchise when it comes to putting the protagonists through the wringer.