Starcraft 2: Crap....you will buy it anways.

Recommended Videos

Rewdalf

Usually Sacrastic
Jan 6, 2010
769
0
0
I really like the new Battle net...
I mean, there are parts that I don't like, but overall it's been updated without really changing the overall feel...
The league design and placement matches make it so rookies and pros are neatly separated (as far as I can tell from others) so that you don't win or lose all of your games based soley on your opponent matching...
I was surprised when I got into silver, since I was never too good in the first game, but after awhile I found that almost all of my opponants were the same skill level, and found myself improving since I got to learn from my and their mistakes...
Each faction feels more like itself than in the original game, and some of the user created maps have really transfered over quite well (in addition to a whole new era of custom games).
I conclude that Starcraft II is exactly the game for me, a Starcraft 1 fan and an average RTS gamer...
Mind you I'm still going to play Starcraft 1...
 

Slenn

Cosplaying Nuclear Physicist
Nov 19, 2009
15,782
0
0
FieryTrainwreck said:
People are geeking out about SC2 and D2, and they have every right to, but none of them can argue that these aren't 3D facelifts for games they've already played.
That's something I could agree with. Most, in fact all, of the in game engines are the same thing as before but with a shinier coat to it. And wasn't the original Starcraft supposed to be based on Warcraft 2's engine and then rehashed to what it is now? But for the most part, I'm just anxious to see how the singleplayer plot will go.
 

Rewdalf

Usually Sacrastic
Jan 6, 2010
769
0
0
666Chaos said:
Delusibeta said:
Hopeless Bastard said:
I don't know what you're talking about. Starcraft all but invented more than half of the casual gaming genre. Tower defense? Starcraft.
I thought that was Warcraft?
It was warcraft 3, the map editor for that game is just insanely powerful when you consider all the things that has been done with it.
Sorry guys, it was Starcraft.
I remember playing Sunken Defense since before Broodwar.
Then Cannon Defense, Seige Tank Defense, and all of the other spin offs became insanely popular.
Hell, there are even Starcraft flash games on online game sites...
I'm sure one or two tower defense games existed before Starcraft, but Starcraft is what got them really noticed...
Off Topic of course.
 

UnusualStranger

Keep a hat handy
Jan 23, 2010
13,588
0
41
Tenmar said:
This is exactly what I found in the game. Too often did I find that hard counters are more of a curse to the game. I personally thought they had a good idea in the expansion. Valkryes, for example, were good at killing a mass of air units. Not exactly a hard counter, but a good counter to a huge amount of air.

With Starcraft 2, some units are countered indefinitely, like siege tanks and immortals. However, the terrain isn't as terrible as you would think....though I notice the zerg lack a unit to defy ground jumping. But then again, they have moving burrow, so I guess they get something.
 

UnusualStranger

Keep a hat handy
Jan 23, 2010
13,588
0
41
Tenmar said:
Actually, the lack of burrow harass surprises me as well. First thing I thought of when I first saw it used is "Man, you could burrow right into someones base, nail em, then burrow away!"

I'm really surprised it hasn't been abused as much. Though, Nydus worms can be killed, while a unit walking up and down a ledge is its own entity.

Slenn said:
After seeing the map editor, I found it absolutely insane. You could do so much with that, I have a feeling the possibilities are going to be endless.
 

Htaed1239

New member
Jun 2, 2010
1
0
0
As someone who played Starcraft 1 for well over ten years, and having played the new Starcraft 2 beta for over a month, I do see many many problems with the new SC.

#1. The lead designer was the lead designer of Command and Conquer - and to anyone who experienced the "RTS wars" of the late 90's/early 2000's - this is absolute blasphemy - especially for how long we waited for this game. We want THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE ORIGINAL STARCRAFT - NOT COMMAND AND CONQUER - TO BE MAKING STARCRAFT 2.

#2. The original Starcraft experience was built off of team games and macro strategies. Starcraft 2 only shines in the 1v1 type games. This is because in the old starcraft buildings and units were considerably tougher - which meant while a battle was going on you actually had time to figure out what to build next - whether to retreat - or have time for an ally to send more units/reinforcements. In Starcraft 2 on the other hand, buildings are destroyed extremely quick with just tier 1 units - the main mining building can be destroyed with like five mutas within 20-30 seconds - and battles are over within moments - even with tons of units. This needs to change, but I believe they did this in the first place to have a "faster paced" game. The problem with making it a "faster paced" game is you lose that inherent four dimensionality of the original.

#3. You can tech too fast in SC 2(but only slightly too fast). I couldn't believe how fast I could get lair.

#4. Whereas SC 1 had straight forward units all with specific purposes and strategies(every race had one range and one melee unit in the first tier, medium specialized in second tier, heavy specialized/air in third tier), SC 2 has different kinds of of range and melee completely mixed up in every tier. Terrans have NO melee units(unless you consider the helion, with it's ginormous range/speed, as melee), protoss has ONE melee unit, and zerg has TWO melee units - this is through-out the entire game. While I know SC 1 didn't have much as far as melee units, SC 2 has like WAYYYY more range units... it seems imbalanced for range/melee mixes. Might I add, Roaches/Mauraders/Immortals are seemingly out of place because you can tech to air so quickly in this game - not to say I think these units are useless(latest patch has made Roaches very useless though).

#5. Caster effects in SC 2 are extremely small but extremely powerful and short- meaning you must have multiple casters(at least five) - and since they their spells have so little range, you have to be constantly micro-ing. THIS CASTER THING CAN BE FIXED THOUGH, it just would be nice if they had more significant graphical effects, much weaker, larger splash, and longer duration.

#6. NUKES SUCK ASS. NUKES SUCK SO BAD - THEY SUCK SOOOO SOOO MUCH this alone makes me incredibly upset at SC2. IT TAKES LIKE FOUR OR FIVE JUST TO DESTROY THEIR MAIN BUILDING - IT HAS THIS HUGE WARNING WHERE YOU CAN SEE EXACTLY WHERE THEY'RE NUKING(whereas in the original it was a tiny red dot, in this one it's like this giant target like "watch me") - and they move their miners very quickly. I guess nukes thereby will be more tactical on the battlefield, but again since battles are so quick in SC 2 I still will find it hard to properly pull off(like in SC1).

#7. Maps are very symmetrical in SC 2 - whereas in SC 1 there was a lot more "natural land-mass" feeling about them.

#8. Cliffs/chokes become useless early in the game in SC 2 - where in SC 1 they were absolutely critical - where only drops/strong air units could negate, and these required lots of teching.



Let me just say at the end of this - try playing "Huge Game Hunters" on SC 2 - and you will see how utterly UTTERLY screwed up and conked out SC 2 is compared to the original.

It turns into this cheesy, korean-based, rough at the edges, with very little four dimensionality, direction, or strategy.

If they do not completely revamp/retweek the game before launch, there will be very very critical reviews in blizzards' future.
 

Deofuta

New member
Nov 10, 2009
1,099
0
0
Blizzard is the Tiger Woods(pre current events) of the gaming industry. And because of this they are locked between two different stratagems. Too different from the original, SC1 fans will call it a disgrace, blah blah blah. To similar, and people will be like "it's the same game", blah blah blah!

But its Blizzard, to many, they have done no wrong when ti comes to game development. Every One of their games have been met with critical success and love by the community. EVERY. ONE.


SO I guess I trust them :)
 

Carnagath

New member
Apr 18, 2009
1,814
0
0
I've been playing Brood Ward since 2002 and I loved the SC2 beta, but I'm not going anywhere near the game if it's released with Bnet 2.0 in its current state. Socializing is a very big aspect of the entertainment in multiplayer games in my opinion, and socializing has been surgically removed from SC2. It's a game for robots who like queueing up game after game of ladder until their brains fry and without ever talking to anyone or meeting anyone new or having some silly fun between games. If I only wanted to play, I'd play skirmish, and there at least the CPU tells me "gg" before the game ends, unlike the antisocial monkeys of Bnet. There's no doubt of course that the game will sell millions, because the majority of people do not care what is actually included in the title that they are buying. I still do want it to flop though. Blizzard need a flop right now, a kick in the nuts that will make them want to be more in touch with their fanbase and not be such follishly egotistical wankers about so many things.
 

UnusualStranger

Keep a hat handy
Jan 23, 2010
13,588
0
41
emily123 said:
Game question.
Ah, I see. Well, extremely off topic, so PM me. I have beaten it, and own the game, actually. Which is how I know he is called Stranger.

Carnagath said:
Socializing
Well, Blizzard has never struck me as egotistical, but their recent merger with Activision has me very worried. Lots of legal and political ramifications.

But I definitely hear what you are saying. From some videos I recently watched on the new 3v3 and 4v4, the guy talking said "You might as well act as if its 1v4."

The game might be great for quick little games and all that, but like you claimed, there is no longer a social aspect to it....other than connecting facebook with the whole thing. I really hate that.

Htaed1239 said:
Long post is long
I can't address all of your points, but I can pick out a few major ones.

2. I definitely agree that everything seems to die incredibly quickly. It has become a game of seconds rather than minutes, and I really don't have the speed to keep up with that. I play games for fun, and I can't have fun if I have to worry about everything dying in a few seconds from void rays/zergling charge/ whatever. It kinda reminds me of Warcraft 2. Things went too damn fast sometimes.

4. Something I noticed in particular about the units is that Terrans have the easiest time switching everything. Marines, Marauders, Reapers, helions, thors, Vikings....They can get everything they want rather quickly. Protoss need separate building just for templar. Or another for Dark Templar. Or yet another for immortals. Zerg need a separate building for each unit, but then all their units come from the hatchery, so you really never know what is coming out.

6. Have you played the Beta? I have not seen some huge ass mark saying "watch me". Quite the contrary, actually.


Deofuta said:
Trust em?
Well, it seems you recognize how this thing will probably be torn by a lot of the old fans. But perhaps I am just nervous because it is one of the games of my younger years, and I hate for it to be remade and be something....wrong.

Thanks for the input.
 

Sir Bob

New member
Jan 14, 2010
250
0
0
@OP: There are many different leagues online, starting at copper (or bronze, depends on what they will use for the final version). So if you are not that good at it, you can still win at least half of the games you play in the lowest league.

The game is good, the races are well balanced as far as I can tell from the Beta and the matches are fast and exciting.

Also, if you play it at a LAN, you can just invite the others on the LAN to your party, and set up games, which makes LAN-support not that needed. As for the fact that you can't play on a EU server with an American version of the game: SO!? How many people do you know over there that you want to play with, and why would you play there at all?
 

Eldarion

New member
Sep 30, 2009
1,887
0
0
UnusualStranger said:
They probably don't care if it sucks. They don't care if you can't have LAN, don't care if you are not a professional and can't really do online,

They will get paid for the game by a bunch of people, and that is all that they want.
I don't think that you (or anyone) knows enough about Blizzard to actually say this. You have no evidence aside from your own opinion.
 

UnusualStranger

Keep a hat handy
Jan 23, 2010
13,588
0
41
Sir Bob said:
Recent examination
Actually, the recently ditched the lowest league and added a higher tier one. So much for the small guy eh?

However, I'm pretty sure you missed the point of LAN. I don't need an active internet connection with it. How it is now, we all need one, and we all need to hope Battle.net doesn't hiccup. I prefer to not have to worry about such things when we are all in kicking distance of each other.

And you seem to forget that online you can become friends with people overseas. I actually have several friends over there who I from time to time play other games with. Why I should I be forced to buy another copy just to play with them? I bought the damned game, least I could do is play it with whom I want who also bought their own game.

666Chaos said:
Excellent explanation
Thanks very much for that.

Though you can get nukes pretty quickly if you want them. You do seem incredibly well versed in what you are talking about though. But the one thing I really don't like too much about the new Starcraft 2 is that it is just so much faster. I really try to keep up, but I'm just not as dedicated as other people, and it really shows.

Guess I can always just mostly avoid online though.

Dark Templar said:
I don't think that you (or anyone) knows enough about Blizzard to actually say this. You have no evidence aside from your own opinion.
Well, Blizzard being a business I thought it pretty safe to assume that the primary goal is to make loads of money.

Perhaps it is a little harsh on my part, but the general idea was that even if it didn't turn out to be all it could, as long as it made them money it wouldn't matter too much.
 

DarkDain

New member
Jul 31, 2007
280
0
0
They added alot of stuff to help new people too, you just need practice and can probably compete okay in team games. But there will be plenty of online players, maybe even a million, not all will be pro's so you can still play online. Just watch some replay videos (also, 80apm is slow for a pro)
 

Sir Bob

New member
Jan 14, 2010
250
0
0
Htaed1239 said:
#1. The lead designer was the lead designer of Command and Conquer - and to anyone who experienced the "RTS wars" of the late 90's/early 2000's - this is absolute blasphemy - especially for how long we waited for this game. We want THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE ORIGINAL STARCRAFT - NOT COMMAND AND CONQUER - TO BE MAKING STARCRAFT 2.
Not relevant
Htaed1239 said:
#2. The original Starcraft experience was built off of team games and macro strategies. Starcraft 2 only shines in the 1v1 type games. This is because in the old starcraft buildings and units were considerably tougher - which meant while a battle was going on you actually had time to figure out what to build next - whether to retreat - or have time for an ally to send more units/reinforcements. In Starcraft 2 on the other hand, buildings are destroyed extremely quick with just tier 1 units - the main mining building can be destroyed with like five mutas within 20-30 seconds - and battles are over within moments - even with tons of units. This needs to change, but I believe they did this in the first place to have a "faster paced" game. The problem with making it a "faster paced" game is you lose that inherent four dimensionality of the original.
Has to do with personal taste.
Htaed1239 said:
#3. You can tech too fast in SC 2(but only slightly too fast). I couldn't believe how fast I could get lair.
Personal taste, because not everyone thinks 1.5 hour turtle games are fun.
Htaed1239 said:
#4. Skipped because argument makes no sense at all. Just because someone has air does not mean you can no longer use a certain unit. Also, MMM?

#5. Caster effects in SC 2 are extremely small but extremely powerful and short- meaning you must have multiple casters(at least five) - and since they their spells have so little range, you have to be constantly micro-ing. THIS CASTER THING CAN BE FIXED THOUGH, it just would be nice if they had more significant graphical effects, much weaker, larger splash, and longer duration.
It requires more skill to use casters than to use normal units, also, caster units cost more. The cost and the skill required balance out the power their abilities have.

Htaed1239 said:
#6. NUKES SUCK ASS. NUKES SUCK SO BAD - THEY SUCK SOOOO SOOO MUCH this alone makes me incredibly upset at SC2. IT TAKES LIKE FOUR OR FIVE JUST TO DESTROY THEIR MAIN BUILDING - IT HAS THIS HUGE WARNING WHERE YOU CAN SEE EXACTLY WHERE THEY'RE NUKING(whereas in the original it was a tiny red dot, in this one it's like this giant target like "watch me") - and they move their miners very quickly. I guess nukes thereby will be more tactical on the battlefield, but again since battles are so quick in SC 2 I still will find it hard to properly pull off(like in SC1).
Only the one who launches the nuke sees the big red ground effect. The other side just sees a tiny red dot, just like SC1. Also, because a nuke no longer needs a command centre and are cheaper as well as faster to make, their damage has been reduced.
Htaed1239 said:
#7. Also makes no sense.

#8. Cliffs/chokes become useless early in the game in SC 2 - where in SC 1 they were absolutely critical - where only drops/strong air units could negate, and these required lots of teching.
And lastly, SC1 had lots of games where terran could place 6 siege tanks on the top of a cliff, and you could never ever get up there. SC2 fixed that problem by making some units scale walls.
 

Sir Bob

New member
Jan 14, 2010
250
0
0
UnusualStranger said:
Sir Bob said:
Recent examination
Actually, the recently ditched the lowest league and added a higher tier one. So much for the small guy eh?
If you remove the lowest one, and add one at the top, only the names of the leagues change. The small guy just gets a league with a different name and another badge.
 

UnusualStranger

Keep a hat handy
Jan 23, 2010
13,588
0
41
Sir Bob said:
If you remove the lowest one, and add one at the top, only the names of the leagues change. The small guy just gets a league with a different name and another badge.
Well, they would also get placed with a few somewhat higher skill players for a time. Especially since I don't think a bunch of people quickly landed in the higher leagues right away. People needed to work into...diamond, I think its called.

But leagues are a small matter. Those are online things I think I will likely try to avoid more often now. Takes the fun out of the game.