Starcraft 2: Crap....you will buy it anways.

[UnusualStranger]

Blizzard knows this and embraced it when making SCII. The game is not easy for newcomers but what'd you expect? It's a PC RTS, the sequel to a highly technical/beloved decade old game. I like SCII even if I get my butt handed to me on a silver platter on every single match.

Right here is the biggest problem I have. Your game isn't all that amazing if only those with those skills can possibly stand a chance. No game should be to the point in which newcomers have no chance of winning. It just sounds like a hopeless situation.

The saddest part:
It will still sell millions on its first day and people will love it and defend it with their lives.

That is the exactly what I say about Starcraft 2. Tons of people will buy it and defend it. Even though it will have flaws, and it isn't as great as everyone thinks it is.

The modder community is especially screwed in this regard, but that is on the TeamLiquid forums, I believe. Though I can't find it at the moment.

Thing is, it isn't all that great, and I played the first one, and many other RTSs.

 

[UnusualStranger]

chop

The thing is, that it can epically fail, but the game will likely still sell enough to not be a bomb. And much of the talent form the original days of the company has gone off. And, people who work purely for money are running many key parts of Starcraft 2 development. I worry because the entire game is balancing almost entirely on multiplayer. Having heard next to nothing about the campaign, that is what it is doing.

And truthfully, I do not like it. Especially BNET 2.0. Because it is not reliable, its just shiny.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

chop

Slice

I see your point and respect your opinion. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. You like single player more then Multiplayer don't you?

 

[UnusualStranger]

I see your point and respect your opinion. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. You like single player more then Multiplayer don't you?

I do. It is nice to see some simple agreement.
Its just that people are too competitive online for my tastes all the time. I just don't get any enjoyment out of it.

BNET 2.0 lacks a lot of features right now (Which I think is stupid of Blizzard), but so did the first battle.net, at least initially. BNET 2.0 lets me get on and play games without a problem (More than I can say of other services coughreliconlinecough coughgamesforwindowslivecough, although of course during patches there have been hiccups (Patch 13, the UDP patch, had awful lag). Barring a small amount of time around new patches when the servers are particularly flooded, I've only lost connection the one time I kicked my modem on accident.

Well, I also find it very stupid of blizzard to hide so many functions. It makes me very suspicious of their intent.
What good is Beta testing your online thing if you are not going to test many of the features that are quite important? They are apparently ditching group chat, which is annoying as hell, and making modded maps a very difficult issue....

It is very worrisome to test things, but then not test them all.

 

[UnusualStranger]

Nothing on the single-player? What?

http://us.starcraft2.com/features/gameplay/hyperion.xml

Single-player sounds awesome, with each campaign revolving around entirely different mechanics/features.

Battle.net 2.0 has its issues, but all it's really missing is chat channels and LAN. Chat channels are going to be added, so that's not really an issue.

You put a lot of thought into this, so I though I should address this personally. Chat channels are going to be added? I am quite certain they said there would NOT be chat channels because of spammers. Where are you getting your info?

And that is not as much information as I would like....they still show the battlecruisors having their splash area attack when that has been taken out of the game, apparently. Zerg still does not have the full unit list, even though the beta has shown them, and I'm not sure how much I really trust all that info anymore.

Very untrue. Starcraft 2 is the most new player-friendly RTS I've ever seen because of the league system. I had never played Starcraft 1 online competitively, but because I was playing against people of equal skill (or lack thereof), I worked my way up from low-rank silver all the way to high-rank platinum during beta alone. This game does everything possible to ease you into it short of pitting you against people with one hand. And I'm sure there will be tutorials upon release.

However, this is speculation on your end. You expect tutorials. But there is a huge difference from tutorial to fighting an actual person. And truth be told, this starcraft is a hell of a lot faster than the first. It might be just me, but I find that having to perfect build orders and all that to stand a chance online to be a little restricting. But that is just personal opinion on my part.

That's your opinion entirely. I haven't had this much fun since Warcraft 3, and I spent thousands of hours on that game. The sense of heated competition once you get to the higher leagues is great, custom maps are great as always, and this is the first achievement system I actually enjoy since it seems to actually represent some level of skill, and not just how much time you've put into the game.

I'm also incredibly excited to continue the story, and see more of those beautiful Blizzard cinematics. I still remember the intro cinematic for Warcraft 1, and man was it epic for its time.

No, that is not my opinion. There are cap limits on maps right now, and a limit on how many custom maps you can have. Again, there is a good article on Teamliquid about it which I think I will hunt down now...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127066
That explains the modder community problem.
But you say something very odd......an Achievment system. Why the hell would I care about that? Its a useless score keeper of things I don't care about.
I'm pretty sure you misunderstood when I said modder community. Because they are not ranked at all.
They are things changed for fun.

 

[UnusualStranger]

I think they kind of dropped the ball on the features, not so much as hid them.

For example, in a recent live chat Dustin Browder said the team was working on private chat channels for a post release patch (If it is DLC/monetized I will pull my hair out).

Also, they've expressed interest in fixing the way custom games work. I think they said they wanted something in between an open game spam list and their current grouped method.

That is what worries me though. They are likely going to charge for the ability to have things that were free before, and charge for it.

And custom games really do need fixing. Really bad. But the problem is new maps are going to be the big issue. How does one join a game? How are they going to be ranked? How do you determine which game gets what name?

There are a lot of promises, but nothing really concrete. And that end date is a lot closer than all these repairs could likely take.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

I see your point and respect your opinion. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. You like single player more then Multiplayer don't you?

I do. It is nice to see some simple agreement.
Its just that people are too competitive online for my tastes all the time. I just don't get any enjoyment out of it.

I can understand. Getting killed within the first five minutes because somebody managed to baingling bust their way into your base and just slaughter you in a brief moment when you just got your second base up and you were creating troops isn't fun is it?

Although it is quite funny win by landing your Command Center next to an enemy Protoss player and converting it into a Plantary Fortress before their very eyes.

 

[UnusualStranger]

I can understand. Getting killed within the first five minutes because somebody managed to baingling bust their way into your base and just slaughter you in a brief moment when you just got your second base up and you were creating troops isn't fun is it?

Although it is quite funny win by landing your Command Center next to an enemy Protoss player and converting it into a Plantary Fortress before their very eyes.

Hehe.....I have watched some replays. Good times indeed! Absurdity is great.

But the thing is, it just seems too fast and far too much dedication for me. I play games in a very casual manner (Which is why I like single player.) Building an army of....mass reaper just for the hell of it. I can't ever play with Dark Templar because they are so high up in tech and cash that I am usually being blasted before I can get to them.

And others seem to put the APM of 150 behind the game. That just sounds like they are working on this game, not really having fun.
I mean, the game is supposed to be fun, right?

 

[park92]

After participating in the Beta, comparing the old with the new, and checking out the new battle.net 2.0, a thought came to me.

This new Starcraft isn't made for me. It is made for the professionals, the ones who perfected build orders, who do APM in the 70 and 80s, who have timed out builds for the race they play.

Not that I hate it. I think it is a fine game and will probably do better than the original just because its Starcraft.

And therein lies the problem.
Starcraft 2 and with it battlenet 2.0 could both be absolutely terrible, and a bunch of people would still go after it. Which brings me to the darkest thought in all of this.

They probably don't care if it sucks. They don't care if you can't have LAN, don't care if you are not a professional and can't really do online, and don't care that they have effectively isolated each nation to its own server, meaning it is next to impossible to play with friends in other countries.

They will get paid for the game by a bunch of people, and that is all that they want.

The discussion here is simple. Do you think that possibly the popularity of Starcraft has possibly already ruined the sequals? And what do you think of the lack of LAN, the compartmentalization of servers, and hell, while we are at it, the game in general?

I'm curious to see what you people think. Perhaps I'm just being a pessimist about the whole deal, but I do wonder what other people think of this.

if you don't like the gameplay at least play some custom maps people make they are actually quite fun

 

[UnusualStranger]

if you don't like the gameplay at least play some custom maps people make they are actually quite fun

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127066

I love custom content, but a complaint like this from a custom content creator worries me. I played custom maps during the beta, because the competitive maps were really not for me at all.

Like I said, custom content is great, but that particular read has me very worried how much will actually be available.

 

[Offworlder_v1legacy]

Dude, play Multiplayer for the custom maps. I've never played a single multiplayer game of Warcraft III, I just went straight to B.net and hit up those custom maps. They're so much fun...

Tag (Yes, tag.), different RTS's, those "Who's the killer?" games, Tower Defense, Roleplaying Games...

DotA.

Lots of fun to be had.

Same. Plus I usually get owned if I play a normal game.

 

[Tony2077]

the beta told me that this part of the mp isn't for you stick to sp and special mp maps like the ums map of the first one

 

[park92]

if you don't like the gameplay at least play some custom maps people make they are actually quite fun

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127066

I love custom content, but a complaint like this from a custom content creator worries me. I played custom maps during the beta, because the competitive maps were really not for me at all.

Like I said, custom content is great, but that particular read has me very worried how much will actually be available.[/quo
well since we all know blizzard is very good at listening they can hopefully fix battle.net 2.0 before the actual release date.

 

[UnusualStranger]

I'd have to look up the exact thread, but it was a blue that said chat channels and cross-region play will be added in a patch after release.

OK. But a guy just saying that they are going to put it in doesn't inspire my confidence much.

It's not so much speculation as it is an educated guess. Blizzard always includes as much content as possible. The campaign will be a decent introduction to the game itself, but like you said, there's no way of fully preparing anyone for online play. Practice is the only thing that will truly help you get better, and because of the league system you can play against people on your level.

Don't expect the beta to be a good indicator of average player skill, either. There will be a TON of people new to Starcraft 2, new to Blizzard RTSes, and even people new to RTSes altogether playing after release. Most anybody who is half decent will easily pick up a 50-50 record and get better from there. So it would be best to get in on the ground floor of this one right after release.

Don't decorate your guess. Its still a guess.

However, from the way you put it, it sounds like the single player is just going to be to introduce multiplayer. Anyway, there are quite a few people playing the beta now, and that means that quite a few people will be good AS SOON as it comes out. Varying levels of good, but better than any beginner RTS. Heck, I would not even recommend this to a beginner RTS. There is too much to look after. Building Mana, queens, while still building up an army and trying to watch your opponent causes a lot of split attention. Especially at the pace it runs.

I was more referring to your comment on the game not being as great as people claim it to be. That's opinion.

If you don't care about the achievement system, that's fine, I was only mentioning it because I enjoy it personally, and find it much more comprehensive than most.

I think that because of the map marketplace, Starcraft 2 will bring in a much more dynamic and diverse group of developers. The prospect of money for map development, which a lot of people consider a fun activity, will invigorate the community. We'll see people developing maps which would have never even bought a Blizzard game otherwise.

I'm sure there are issues with it, but everything will iron itself out eventually. Blizzard games have always been ongoing projects, even after their release.

It is not an opinion, just an observation. People claim it to be the best game ever, and it isn't even out yet. I don't claim next year is already better than this one, just because its next year.

Are you familiar with the Warcraft and Starcraft communities? THEY, and again for more emphasis, THEY are the ones who made the new maps for the original Starcraft and Warcraft games. THEY are the ones that made tower defense games, RPGS in the games, and all sorts of fun extras. THEY are what actually kept Starcraft and Warcraft both afloat. THEY are not big publishers. They were never in it for the money, they were in it for the fun. Know what this map marketplace will do? It is Blizzard taking the ideas that the community made famous over time and instead making them itself, then selling them to people, when before they were free. Its charging for things that were free before.

It is stealing ideas. And it is a punch in the face to the people who made those ideas, and put hard work into them. And if you read some of the thread I linked earlier, you would have read that the interface, and size limitations for users, is absolutely choking the entire Modding Sector.

 

[UnusualStranger]

So your main complaint is, literally, that it is 'too popular'.

No, my main complaint is that they are getting away with multiple hiccups because "Its Blizzard! They will be great!" No company is above scrutiny. Just because you were a success before does not mean you will succeed again. It increases liklihood, but does not make it true every time.

Besides, as mentioned, I've played the Starcraft 2 beta. Not really to my tastes, I never was into Starcraft multiplayer. But I'd be lying if I said it wasn't one of the most slick and polished games I've ever seen and, amazingly enough, this is still considered a beta! Sweet Bouncing Balloons Batman, that's insane!

One game can't appeal to everyone though, no matter how polished. Maybe you're just like me and don't really suit the multiplayer scene? Doesn't make the game itself any less amazing, just not my style and perhaps not yours either. No shame in that!

But looking slick isn't exactly the be all, end all. Their other game has been around 10 years for a reason. Being slick isn't all there is to it. And I have played that old game, and still own it. I have also owned other RTSs in that time, and enjoyed them.

But you are also showing what the problem is. You are taking what they put in front of you as their very best product. I KNOW that they can do Battlenet 2.0 better. Much Better. I know that right now the modding community is quite unhappy with how things look for them. And they are what kept Blizzard going. They are what made custom maps, shunning them is like punching the guy who returns your wallet to you. You can do it, but you're an ass for doing so.

And that Final Date is looming close.....I doubt they have given themselves the time they need to make it all right before release. Which would be slightly disastrous...because people will still buy it.

 

[snow]

I have seen some sc2 replays that involved people playing against each other despite being in different zones. So if you have friends in other countries that you want to play with, I'm pretty sure you're still able to play with them.

As for LAN? That doesn't really phase me that much because I have only done a LAN once with SC to teach my nephew how to play starcraft and to give us both something to do.

Starcraft has always been a competitive game. In fact, most RTS games have a sense of competitive play to them. There are User-map-settings games built by players for when people want to take it easy and goof around. So there's that if you're looking for a casual side of the game.

You don't have to be competitive in the Melee form of the game to be able to enjoy it. You'll see a LOT of 1vs1 replays on youtube and all that, but in Starcraft, my friend and his brother and I often play a FFA or a 3vs comp and just have fun with it. You're going to be able to do this in SC2 I believe.

I think you may have worded your title wrong. You say it's crap for whatever reason, (probably to catch the attention of SC fans) but then you say it's a fine game. People are going to overlook what you said in your post because of the fact that you said it was crap in the title that brought them (including me) here in the first place.

You say it's a fine game, but then you worry that even if it wasn't, that people would buy it anyway. Why worry? You said it yourself that the game is fine. From what I have seen from replays, the game looks pretty darn good if I say so myself! So the popularity of Starcraft hasn't ruined anything at all has it?

The game isn't even out yet, so if b.net 2.0 isn't perfect yet, who says it won't be further down the line?

As for the game being made for "professionals," as a competitive player myself, I must say that if they decided to make it a casual game, I probably would not buy it, and neither would the core of the SC community. There's a reason why Starcraft and Broodwars are still heavily populated games after so many years, and for Blizzard to tell that community that they are being pushed to the side to appeal to a more casual crowd would create a bigger uproar than Nintendo when they started marketing their new console to mothers and children.

I may not have the strats down, or could I try to keep a straight face if I were to say I have a good APM, but will this keep me from having fun with the game? Heck no! Even by losing a round against some one, you are able to go back and learn what you did wrong, that is the beauty of Starcraft that I wish more games would implement! I'd have a lot less people calling me a hacker in FPS games if that were the case... But then again, some people prefer being ignorant so their fragile ego's aren't hurt. =\

Would I buy Starcraft 2 if I knew it flat out sucked? You'd find me on starcraft and brood wars.