Starcraft 2: Crap....you will buy it anways.

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UnusualStranger

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Jan 23, 2010
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snowfox said:
Don't know how familiar you are with the first game, but Starcraft and Brood wars received a butt load of patches after the game came out, so you're pretty much worrying over nothing.

Here's the thing about all this that's bothering me though, you're worried that SC2 is for professionals only right? Back when Medal of Honor Allied assault was out, I was 14 years old and in a clan filled with people who were 22, 23 or older. This is because they needed a good sniper, and I was there to supply that at such a young age. We held a very high rank in ladder and league matches for the longest time.

Same goes for CoD4, I played in leagues and ladders with a clan doing 5v5 s&d. The point I'm trying to make is that there's room for competition in just about every multiplayer game. Ever go to a Rock Band 2 Competition?

The match-making of SC2 is not all about the professionals, or all about the competition. If you get stuck in bronze, who cares? You play against other people who are bronze as well, you all learn the game together, and at your own pace. You have fun because you know that the other people aren't going to have a big ball of tanks and marines within the first 6 minutes of the game.

Of course there's a way for you to move up in rank, but this is because the game would then feel that you are getting better at the game, so that way you're not getting bored playing against those in bronze. They give you an opponent that would be worth your time to play against. The game gives you a challenge, you have fun with it, as so will your opponent, it's all good right?

There's also the ability to play with friends. Husky from youtube often does commentary for TheLittleOne and Whitera and various other people. He even plays 3v3's and 4v4s with them all, for they are his friends and they all have fun together.

There are always going to be people who take the game serious... You have it in Halo, in CoD, Rock Band, and believe it or not, I got trash talked in Peggle once, but considering you're a casual gamer, you will never have to worry about playing these people unless you improve enough to reach the higher rankings of the matchmaker.

Not to mention that Blizzard IS trying to make the game as newcomer friendly as they possibly can with the practice league and the matchmaking service.

I'm upset that I've said this many times before, and you have yet to respond to what I have had to say. It feels like you're ignoring posts that speak the truth about the game and going after those that have some logical flaw that you can twist for sake of debate.

I feel your a bit late on worrying about being put against professionals or people who are better than you. Because if you ever played Starcraft or Broodwars, you would know that they don't have any sort of match-making service for b.net 1.0 and the chances of you getting put up against some one twice your skill level were rather very great.
Well, patches are all well and good. But if the system is broken without them, I wouldn't call them patches. I would call them laziness mistakes. But again, neither of us see the future.

I understand that there is going to always be competition. I know. Heck, there are still scrabble tournaments and things like that. Its a damned word game, but its also a competitive thing.
But my point is the first thing I see when I log in and all that are the ladder matches. 1v1 etc, all for ranked games. That right there says they are there for those who care about their ranks and the like. I'm not one of those. Perhaps I'm looking a little too deeply into it. But Custom Games = 1 spot, and ranked games = 3 spots. That isn't working with new people, that is wanting them all to be competitive.

The friend thing is good, I guess....just that I am willing to bet those are far and in between with times and all. How are you supposed to make friends through games if they are mostly competitive ones? I have a feeling that was a little bit off, but its a valid point dammit.

And again, the whole matchmaking thing....A majority of people are just going to naturally be competitive in it. They are going to want to be better and all that stuff. That isn't what I jump online for. Perhaps someday I will have a competitive bone in my body for games, but that won't come soon, and I for now just want to jump on, play a quick game of whatever, and not worry about rank or anything like that. But right now, the custom maps are not properly matched up, nor is battlenet working properly.

Apologies if it seems like I'm just provoking arguments or division. I am just trying to see the flaws in the game in comparison to all the greatness everyone showers on it. It isn't perfect, but all I seem to hear is praise, and people always backing up Blizzard. They are still humans, and make mistakes. I just don't know if I am interested in Starcraft 2, and made this to kind of see where people stand.

That, and I like to discuss video games. Especially when I am lucky enough to participate in the beta.
 

Ertol

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Peronsonally, I will just wait and play a few online matches at a friends house before I buy it, because yes I think it could end up being a game where players with insanse skill at the game destroy me in 5 minutes. On the other hand that might only happen occasionally and the rest of the time I get to enjoy competitive matches where I'm challanged, no outmatched.
 

ImprovizoR

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I wont buy it because I'm not into games like that. Blizzard doesn't even care about simple RTS fans. If your purpose in life isn't their game then their game isn't for you. That's the kind of games they make.
 

pope_of_larry

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i'm in the beta and well i haven't played the 1st one in years but this one i say this one is better (most likely because i played when i was 10) and had no clue what to do i like the way the leagues are set up (for those of you that dont know they have it rank by skill level so some one like me whos lower on the scale will not play a pro)
 

snow

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tzimize said:
snowfox said:
I dont have a lot to say on-topic, but I have to say once again that it is so refreshing to discuss with people able to formulate an answer without flaming...I know this happens a lot on the escapist compared to other forums, but it still gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling :p
Good, my plan to be overly nice to you while I secretly plot your doom is working! :p

What's to flame though? If you don't like the characters in Uncharted, your chances of liking or playing the game are very slim. I can't really say much to change that unless I have you look into the burning stare of my hamster and change your ways! (Baldur's Gate 2 humor)

Considering that the majority of people who are getting the game have it in the back of their mind that they get to use these new units, it all seems reasonable if you don't actually like said units. The graphical update is just that, updated graphics to match the times.

I personally will be enjoying the little tweeks they did to improve gameplay! For example the ability to group up more than 12 units. That was my biggest downfall in Starcraft and BroodWars. I would have my entire board of hotkeys filled up with things and it became a big mess. Being able to hotkey more than 12 units at a time will help me out a lot. Not to mention being able to rally worker units onto minerals and units into bunkers and small things like that.

Not to mention when I started getting good at Starcraft, there was a moment where I wasn't able to play the game, so I hopped online and watched some Japanese tournament replays... Now whenever I play the original, if my opponent doesn't speak fluent english, I run like hell!! With the matchmaking service, I won't have to worry about going against opponents that would smite me within the first few minutes of gameplay.

Like I said before, it seems like a bunch of people who are judging the game are judging it based off of a misunderstanding. So I've been responding to a lot of posts to correct them, because it just sucks that most of these people will probably miss out on a good game based off of a misunderstanding or simple ignorance to what is really happening. (I'm not using ignorance as a derogatory either)

There are a lot of online games out there where you will see people from the core community pushing away newcomers because they dont' know how to play the game. This happens a lot in FPS games like Counter Strike Source. As part of the core community of starcraft, I want people to get involved in this game, and I want newcomers to know that no one is going to chase them away in this upcoming sequel. Considering there are so many websites and youtube videos out there that share knowledge about the game.

Heck there are even communities where people take the role of teachers to help newcomers get a sense of how to play the game.
 

snow

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UnusualStranger said:
snowfox said:
Don't know how familiar you are with the first game, but Starcraft and Brood wars received a butt load of patches after the game came out, so you're pretty much worrying over nothing.

Here's the thing about all this that's bothering me though, you're worried that SC2 is for professionals only right? Back when Medal of Honor Allied assault was out, I was 14 years old and in a clan filled with people who were 22, 23 or older. This is because they needed a good sniper, and I was there to supply that at such a young age. We held a very high rank in ladder and league matches for the longest time.

Same goes for CoD4, I played in leagues and ladders with a clan doing 5v5 s&d. The point I'm trying to make is that there's room for competition in just about every multiplayer game. Ever go to a Rock Band 2 Competition?

The match-making of SC2 is not all about the professionals, or all about the competition. If you get stuck in bronze, who cares? You play against other people who are bronze as well, you all learn the game together, and at your own pace. You have fun because you know that the other people aren't going to have a big ball of tanks and marines within the first 6 minutes of the game.

Of course there's a way for you to move up in rank, but this is because the game would then feel that you are getting better at the game, so that way you're not getting bored playing against those in bronze. They give you an opponent that would be worth your time to play against. The game gives you a challenge, you have fun with it, as so will your opponent, it's all good right?

There's also the ability to play with friends. Husky from youtube often does commentary for TheLittleOne and Whitera and various other people. He even plays 3v3's and 4v4s with them all, for they are his friends and they all have fun together.

There are always going to be people who take the game serious... You have it in Halo, in CoD, Rock Band, and believe it or not, I got trash talked in Peggle once, but considering you're a casual gamer, you will never have to worry about playing these people unless you improve enough to reach the higher rankings of the matchmaker.

Not to mention that Blizzard IS trying to make the game as newcomer friendly as they possibly can with the practice league and the matchmaking service.

I'm upset that I've said this many times before, and you have yet to respond to what I have had to say. It feels like you're ignoring posts that speak the truth about the game and going after those that have some logical flaw that you can twist for sake of debate.

I feel your a bit late on worrying about being put against professionals or people who are better than you. Because if you ever played Starcraft or Broodwars, you would know that they don't have any sort of match-making service for b.net 1.0 and the chances of you getting put up against some one twice your skill level were rather very great.
Well, patches are all well and good. But if the system is broken without them, I wouldn't call them patches. I would call them laziness mistakes. But again, neither of us see the future.

I understand that there is going to always be competition. I know. Heck, there are still scrabble tournaments and things like that. Its a damned word game, but its also a competitive thing.
But my point is the first thing I see when I log in and all that are the ladder matches. 1v1 etc, all for ranked games. That right there says they are there for those who care about their ranks and the like. I'm not one of those. Perhaps I'm looking a little too deeply into it. But Custom Games = 1 spot, and ranked games = 3 spots. That isn't working with new people, that is wanting them all to be competitive.

The friend thing is good, I guess....just that I am willing to bet those are far and in between with times and all. How are you supposed to make friends through games if they are mostly competitive ones? I have a feeling that was a little bit off, but its a valid point dammit.

And again, the whole matchmaking thing....A majority of people are just going to naturally be competitive in it. They are going to want to be better and all that stuff. That isn't what I jump online for. Perhaps someday I will have a competitive bone in my body for games, but that won't come soon, and I for now just want to jump on, play a quick game of whatever, and not worry about rank or anything like that. But right now, the custom maps are not properly matched up, nor is battlenet working properly.

Apologies if it seems like I'm just provoking arguments or division. I am just trying to see the flaws in the game in comparison to all the greatness everyone showers on it. It isn't perfect, but all I seem to hear is praise, and people always backing up Blizzard. They are still humans, and make mistakes. I just don't know if I am interested in Starcraft 2, and made this to kind of see where people stand.

That, and I like to discuss video games. Especially when I am lucky enough to participate in the beta.
No worries, my overall upset on the matter is that I wanted to see what you had to say to my posts. xD

People are competitive by nature. It's nothing to do with Starcraft 2. I have joined Cod4 public servers where people took the game more seriously than when I played in private 5v5 clan matches.

Just because there are people going to be competitive in the game does not mean that you yourself have to commit to that. Don't see the ranking as anything but a number. Sign on, find a game, play your best, have fun with it. If ranking and competition isn't important to you, then these factors of the game will have little effect on your ability to have fun with the game.

You don't necessarily have to make your way up to platinum ranking as quickly as possible. Sure there are people who are going to do that, but in no way should you feel compelled to follow in their footsteps.

If there's any worry about people thinking you're horrible at the game, that's not going to be something that's going to bother you either, because if some one demolishes you in a match-up, chances are they will move up in rank and you may never see them again.

As for making friends in a game set up like this. I played MW2 for the ps3 where the chances of you seeing the same players in a game are slim to none, but I ended up getting friend requests left and right because people had fun playing with me.

Not to mention that the Starcraft community is a pretty friendly community. There are social groups out there where people play against each other all the time! There are even groups out there where people take the time out of playing to go into a game and teach others a thing or 2 that they may not know about the game.

Of course you may find a few asshats here and there, but that's a given for any game. So in no way am I speaking for the entirety of the community.

As for what you said about patches. No game is perfect when it first comes out, and I highly doubt a company would spend $100 million on a game and have it be severely broken. With Blizzard planning on trying to sell 2 more campaigns, that would be very foolish on their part.

Atleast they aren't doing what Valve did with Left 4 Dead. If you're unfamiliar with that scenario, Valve released L4D early with the promise of adding more content and fixing up the game later on. The majority of those patches came after they announced L4D2 and the majority of the community went into an uproar. Even then those patches weren't enough to be called anything special.

Though L4D was still a fun game for a while. If Blizzard would have tried that with SC2, not only would that send the community into an uproar, that would also diminish sales for the next 2 parts of the campaign.
 
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Don't like it. Won't buy it. Won't pirate it either. If I get a copy then I'm auctioning it off.

Single Player Grinding isn't for me.
 

snow

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Ertol said:
Peronsonally, I will just wait and play a few online matches at a friends house before I buy it, because yes I think it could end up being a game where players with insanse skill at the game destroy me in 5 minutes. On the other hand that might only happen occasionally and the rest of the time I get to enjoy competitive matches where I'm challanged, no outmatched.
The matchmaking service will help prevent that from ever happening. What you're worried about is something that was a big problem in the first starcraft where anyone could join your games.

The_root_of_all_evil said:
Don't like it. Won't buy it. Won't pirate it either. If I get a copy then I'm auctioning it off.

Single Player Grinding isn't for me.
Single player Grinding? Could you explain that a bit please?
 

Assassin Xaero

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I never saw what was so great about the first, just seemed like Age of Empires in space to me... I do find it funny with how graphicly amazing the trailers and stuff are while they completely falsely advertise the RTS-ness of the game...
 

UnusualStranger

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Xzi said:
I'm just guesstimating there, but there's no way they let in more than 100k. Which, again, is a very small fraction of what the full player base will be after release. There will be a lot of people of all skill levels playing online for a long time to come.
All around the world though? I'm not sure if the number is as small as you think. But again, neither of us have numbers, so its a non topic...

Xzi said:
Every developer tries to create a GREAT game, nobody wants their product to fall flat on its face. But it still happens. Luckily, Starcraft 2 is in no danger of being "bad," by any means. Maybe it isn't for everybody, but no game truly is. Opinion will always factor in.
Of course opinion always is in. Its just that by cutting message boards, chats(which I know you say are going to be in), and LAN, they seem to be tossing things that might help the game be great.


Xzi said:
Those people you're talking about are already involved in the Blizzard community. I'm talking about people/developers who would not have otherwise joined in. Attracting them requires money because maybe they aren't normally Blizzard fans. Or maybe they don't generally like RTSes. But if there's money to be made, more people will show. That's always the case.
Thing is, do we want to attract those people? People that don't much care for a genre, and we want them around making maps? I don't think more people means better things. Money does attract people, but it doesn't attract the right people. It just attracts people who want money.

Xzi said:
If you had read what I said before fully, you would see that they COULD do a lot of things, but they haven't. They've had that clause of the TOS in every game with an editor, and they've never claimed another person's map as their own creation. Whether they are more concerned with money now or not is still up for debate, as Starcraft 2 has more content in it than Warcraft 3 or the original game.
Exactly. All that extra content that they could charge for. They are planning on a map sale function. So they could do it, and get away with it. You claim that in their good will they will not do that. I'm not as optimistic. But hey, we will see
 

Slavik_91

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I'm into C&C, not SC RTS type of games, so I'll probably wait for a friend to buy to check it out, but I'm definitely not buying.
 

UnusualStranger

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snowfox said:
I need to start snipping for good measure!
Well, I'm not sure if there are even clans set up for BNet 2 right now. The biggest question mark I have is for the community itself. I don't know how the clans will work, how meeting people who are fun will work, and all that stuff.

And I do not expect a perfect game, but I expect it to fulfill what they are claiming to be replacing LAN with. You don't just take a feature like that away, and then in the beta find that Bnet 2 is pretty terrible. Even for the limited amount of people using it.

Though I don't think they could manage to do a L4D scenario. Especially since they are planning on adding on to it.
 

snow

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Ricky_Rio said:
I noticed something...

You cant spell Real Idiot
without.... REAL ID

fuck you blizzard. Fuck you.
That whole thing with Real ID's was dropped, Blizzard has decided against it. One moment, some one posted a video about it on youtube.


UnusualStranger said:
snowfox said:
I need to start snipping for good measure!
Well, I'm not sure if there are even clans set up for BNet 2 right now. The biggest question mark I have is for the community itself. I don't know how the clans will work, how meeting people who are fun will work, and all that stuff.

And I do not expect a perfect game, but I expect it to fulfill what they are claiming to be replacing LAN with. You don't just take a feature like that away, and then in the beta find that Bnet 2 is pretty terrible. Even for the limited amount of people using it.

Though I don't think they could manage to do a L4D scenario. Especially since they are planning on adding on to it.
Yeah, I understand your dismay for the lack of LAN. It doesn't effect me personally, for I have only used LAN once to play the game with my nephew a few months ago, but I know there are people out there that used LAN a lot for this game who are going to be disappointed by Blizzard not adding the feature to the game.

My personal thoughts on this, and this is something companies do a lot when it comes to new things that they're trying, is that they created this new version of B.net, and want everyone to try it out so they can show it off. I have not played the Beta yet, so to counter debate b.net 2.0 being terrible is something I'm incapable of doing until the 27th, but even then they might have done something in between now and release to add to it or fix it.

Maybe, and hopefully the version of 2.0 that they used for Beta was just the standard format of b.net that they allowed players to use and perhaps once the full game is bought, it will contain the full b.net? That's just wishful thinking on my behalf though, because if it is as terrible as you say then they're going to have to act fast to fix it up.

Not sure if this actually works with Blizzard or not, seeing as how the game has been in production forever, but most companies have a set release date for their games. Some companies are able to afford to push that due date back, but they can only do that for so long before releasing a game in it's current state. After that they go in and touch up little things that they need to fix, or patch up things that players have found in the game, just as long as the company actually cares about the game or their fans.

So if b.net 2.0 is terrible during release, Blizzard will definitely hear about it, because gaming communities are loud when it comes to things being broken in their games, so if they're going to try to push 2 more campaigns on us, they're going to have to listen.
 

Ricky_Rio

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snowfox said:
That whole thing with Real ID's was dropped, Blizzard has decided against it. One moment, some one posted a video about it on youtube.

what about the ingame stuff they have NOT dropped like "real friends" in starcraft2 and (likely soon in WoW)
 

snow

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Ricky_Rio said:
snowfox said:
That whole thing with Real ID's was dropped, Blizzard has decided against it. One moment, some one posted a video about it on youtube.

what about the ingame stuff they have NOT dropped like "real friends" in starcraft2 and (likely soon in WoW)
I have not heard of this, could you supply a link please?
 

Ricky_Rio

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snowfox said:
Ricky_Rio said:
snowfox said:
That whole thing with Real ID's was dropped, Blizzard has decided against it. One moment, some one posted a video about it on youtube.

what about the ingame stuff they have NOT dropped like "real friends" in starcraft2 and (likely soon in WoW)
I have not heard of this, could you supply a link please?
Starcraft 2 beta friends see your "real ID"

and there are rumors of Real ID going into WoW soon.

"I want to make sure it's clear that our plans for the forums are completely separate from our plans for the optional in-game Real ID system now live with World of Warcraft and launching soon with StarCraft II. We believe that the powerful communications functionality enabled by Real ID, such as cross-game and cross-realm chat, make Battle.net a great place for players to stay connected to real-life friends and family while playing Blizzard games. And of course, you'll still be able to keep your relationships at the anonymous, character level if you so choose when you communicate with other players in game. Over time, we will continue to evolve Real ID on Battle.net to add new and exciting functionality within our games for players who decide to use the feature. "

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25968987278&sid=1
 

UnusualStranger

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snowfox said:
Chop Chop Chop.
Well, LAN does not require a connection to Blizzard. If Blizzard Servers go down, you cannot do any multiplayer. At all. If you have a friend in the room with you who has the game, you cannot play, for the servers are down. That is annoying as hell.

Well, at first just having basic BNet would work for me. But the longer the Beta has gone on, the worse it has gotten. In the longer it has been going on, the worse it has gotten. More games have been crashing, more disconnects, and just generally poor performance. This is also making me very worried that they are biting much more than they can chew.

Yeah, Blizzard really needs to make sure they fix this before the deadline. The constant drops and poor performance are really making the online part pretty....unenjoyable.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

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John Funk said:
I personally think SC2 is absolutely fantastic, and I pretty much just cheated my way through the first game's singleplayer :p So I am far from a RTS pro.
If it is for professional RTS players, I may be in trouble. I like the looks of the setting of the game(s) but I've always been a little slow in RTS games.

Would you consider this a bad game for me to buy into due to my inexperience?