Sympathy for the Devil

[Trolldor]

Kreia.

..I mean, I'll be damned if I knew what her point was considering I haven't played it in yonks, but I always wanted to work with her.

 

[kannibus]

This is gonna sound nuts but I felt such sympathy for Sarevok. Especially in the Throne of Baal. I always kept him in my party and turned him back to the light side.

But think about it, all the pain and suffering he went through, it could have just have easily been my character.

 

[Trolldor]

This is gonna sound nuts but I felt such sympathy for Sarevok. Especially in the Throne of Baal. I always kept him in my party and turned him back to the light side.

But think about it, all the pain and suffering he went through, it could have just have easily been my character.

They do make a point of that.

 

[Irridium]

These seem like a whole lot of poor excuses to me. Only one thing is for certain: as a leader and someone who managed to unite everyone against the Darkspawn, the main character saves Ferelden when there was no guarantee that Loghain could possibly do the same. As a matter of fact, it's almost assured that he would have failed in attempting to do the same. The Dwarves were ignoring him, the elves hated him with good reason, his forces were halved without Cailan's army, and even a good portion of the human lords were questioning his judgment. Again, with good reason. I really don't see any possible positive outcome for Ferelden or its people without your hero intervening. If Loghain had truly been the brilliant strategist he was claimed to be, he would have been able to take a step back and realize this after seeing the big picture, instead of challenging you to the bitter end.

Loghain may have been a great military leader at one point, but by the time you caught up with him, he had become the furthest thing from a reasonable man. Which was bound to happen with or without your interference. The stress and uncertainty of the coming Blight took his sanity, and he would have driven the nation into the ground as its leader.

The Dwarves couldn't do anything because of their civil issues. So they weren't talking to anyone. Except you because you had the treaties. The Elves hate everyone, and wouldn't listen to anyone. They only listen to you because your a Warden. And I always figured Cailan's forces were just a small part, meant to distract from the larger force Loghain has waiting. The nobles would question anything. Even if Loghain didn't betray Cailan, they would still question what happened, and still be suspicious.

But its true, he wouldn't have been able to win without the wardens. But he didn't know this, he never knew why they were required except for some vague, unspecified reason. To me it seems he was the first person who wondered why they were really needed. If he had known, there's a chance that instead of letting all the wardens die, he'd have helped them.

 

[Klumpfot]

I had a lot of sympathy for Skull Kid from Majora's Mask. He is the very personification of lost innocence. I don't remember if the game says whether or not the mask is sentient, but in my opinion it works better as a metaphor for addiction or attachment to something destructive causing the disintegration of one's self and one's value.

 

[Caligulust]

I hold some sympathy for the Enclave, I mean, I made their leader blow up by talking to it. If anything, they were mislead.

Spoiler: Ordinaryundone

Except Loghain was completely unwilling to fight the true threat that was facing Ferelden, and was too consumed with politics, wrongfully usurping the throne, and his extreme paranoia regarding Olesians that under his rule Ferelden would have collapsed completely.

Also, you have to remember that in the Dragon Age world, EVERY SINGLE BLIGHT has been stopped by a Grey Warden. Its well known history; nearly everyone you talk to, even simple farmers and guards, know that Grey Wardens are important. Loghain only kills them because they are so popular, and are so close to the Royal Family. They would have been a true obstacle to his coup, given the influence they wield (as we see in the game). Plus, the Wardens make it perfectly clear why they don't reveal the secret of their powers. If they did, no one would ever volunteer to be a Grey Warden, no matter how important they were.

I didn't kill Loghain because he was a jerk. I didn't kill him because I liked Alistair. I killed him because, if he was in charge, he would have fettered his army away in a civil war while the Darkspawn destroyed everything. They were the real, and only, threat. Loghain was simply too shortsighted and paranoid to see that.

Also, THE GUY COMMITS REGICIDE. And while Cailan might have been a bit of a dink, he was still the rightful holder of the throne and a popular king to boot. And as the rest of the game shows, Cailan's decision to face the blight head-on, providing full support to the Wardens, was actually the correct one, no matter what Loghain thought.

He was willing to face the Darkspawn. Which is why he was busy in politics, he was trying to get the nobles on his side. Unlike you, he doesn't have any treaties that guarantee support, he had to do it the old fashioned way, by going through politics.

And the problem with the Wardens could have been solved with Duncan talking to Loghain in private for 5 minutes to explain why the Wardens were needed to kill the Archdemon.

He wasn't shortsighted. Your focus was on the Darkspawn, and getting all the help you could to fight them. But what about after? You think that large Orlesian army would just walk away from a really weak Ferelden? No nation is that nice. You'd have saved Ferelden, but you would most likely have also started another Orlesian occupation.

And just because your popular, doesn't mean your a good king. This reminds me of Fable 3.

Spoiler: Fable 3 spoilers follow

In Fable 3, you get to be king. But you also learn that a great evil is coming in 1 year's time. You have 2 ways to proceed throughout this 1 year. You can be a popular king, doing what the people wish and making them happy. Or you could be a tyrant and do unpopular things, making them hate you.

Know what happens? If your a "good" king, everbody dies. Because you were too focused on making them happy rather then making sure they'll live. You made them happy, but they're all dead now.

Whereas if you pick the tyrant road, everybody lives. Yes that year was hell, but at least everybody and their children are alive to see another year at life.

Although Fable 3 handles this potentially fantastic concept rather poorly. But thats a discussion for another time.

Point is, just because your popular, doesn't mean your what the people need. Ferelden needed a leader that was willing to do what was necessary, a leader to put the future and well-being of the people first. Cailen wouldn't have done this. Loghain would have. He was willing to make sacrifices. And no he wouldn't have chosen to attack Orlais or provoke them, since that would mean another war and another occupation. He would have avoided that.

If I recall correctly, they did not know whether there was even an arch demon at the time, so he wouldn't have considered telling him.

 

[icame]

The Locust in gears of war...seriously read this

http://www.gamesradar.com/f/why-youre-actually-playing-as-the-bad-guys-in-gears-of-war/a-20080904103347781089

 

[Tony2077]

These seem like a whole lot of poor excuses to me. Only one thing is for certain: as a leader and someone who managed to unite everyone against the Darkspawn, the main character saves Ferelden when there was no guarantee that Loghain could possibly do the same. As a matter of fact, it's almost assured that he would have failed in attempting to do the same. The Dwarves were ignoring him, the elves hated him with good reason, his forces were halved without Cailan's army, and even a good portion of the human lords were questioning his judgment. Again, with good reason. I really don't see any possible positive outcome for Ferelden or its people without your hero intervening. If Loghain had truly been the brilliant strategist he was claimed to be, he would have been able to take a step back and realize this after seeing the big picture, instead of challenging you to the bitter end.

Loghain may have been a great military leader at one point, but by the time you caught up with him, he had become the furthest thing from a reasonable man. Which was bound to happen with or without your interference. The stress and uncertainty of the coming Blight took his sanity, and he would have driven the nation into the ground as its leader.

The Dwarves couldn't do anything because of their civil issues. So they weren't talking to anyone. Except you because you had the treaties. The Elves hate everyone, and wouldn't listen to anyone. They only listen to you because your a Warden. And I always figured Cailan's forces were just a small part, meant to distract from the larger force Loghain has waiting. The nobles would question anything. Even if Loghain didn't betray Cailan, they would still question what happened, and still be suspicious.

But its true, he wouldn't have been able to win without the wardens. But he didn't know this, he never knew why they were required except for some vague, unspecified reason. To me it seems he was the first person who wondered why they were really needed. If he had known, there's a chance that instead of letting all the wardens die, he'd have helped them.

how can you be so sure he'd have helped them he may have thought it was a trick to keep them around. considering its a game and all we'll never know what may have happened since they wrote the story and all. we can only make blind guesses as to what may have happened or not.

 

[Irridium]

I hold some sympathy for the Enclave, I mean, I made their leader blow up by talking to it. If anything, they were mislead.

Spoiler: Ordinaryundone

Except Loghain was completely unwilling to fight the true threat that was facing Ferelden, and was too consumed with politics, wrongfully usurping the throne, and his extreme paranoia regarding Olesians that under his rule Ferelden would have collapsed completely.

Also, you have to remember that in the Dragon Age world, EVERY SINGLE BLIGHT has been stopped by a Grey Warden. Its well known history; nearly everyone you talk to, even simple farmers and guards, know that Grey Wardens are important. Loghain only kills them because they are so popular, and are so close to the Royal Family. They would have been a true obstacle to his coup, given the influence they wield (as we see in the game). Plus, the Wardens make it perfectly clear why they don't reveal the secret of their powers. If they did, no one would ever volunteer to be a Grey Warden, no matter how important they were.

I didn't kill Loghain because he was a jerk. I didn't kill him because I liked Alistair. I killed him because, if he was in charge, he would have fettered his army away in a civil war while the Darkspawn destroyed everything. They were the real, and only, threat. Loghain was simply too shortsighted and paranoid to see that.

Also, THE GUY COMMITS REGICIDE. And while Cailan might have been a bit of a dink, he was still the rightful holder of the throne and a popular king to boot. And as the rest of the game shows, Cailan's decision to face the blight head-on, providing full support to the Wardens, was actually the correct one, no matter what Loghain thought.

He was willing to face the Darkspawn. Which is why he was busy in politics, he was trying to get the nobles on his side. Unlike you, he doesn't have any treaties that guarantee support, he had to do it the old fashioned way, by going through politics.

And the problem with the Wardens could have been solved with Duncan talking to Loghain in private for 5 minutes to explain why the Wardens were needed to kill the Archdemon.

He wasn't shortsighted. Your focus was on the Darkspawn, and getting all the help you could to fight them. But what about after? You think that large Orlesian army would just walk away from a really weak Ferelden? No nation is that nice. You'd have saved Ferelden, but you would most likely have also started another Orlesian occupation.

And just because your popular, doesn't mean your a good king. This reminds me of Fable 3.

Spoiler: Fable 3 spoilers follow

In Fable 3, you get to be king. But you also learn that a great evil is coming in 1 year's time. You have 2 ways to proceed throughout this 1 year. You can be a popular king, doing what the people wish and making them happy. Or you could be a tyrant and do unpopular things, making them hate you.

Know what happens? If your a "good" king, everbody dies. Because you were too focused on making them happy rather then making sure they'll live. You made them happy, but they're all dead now.

Whereas if you pick the tyrant road, everybody lives. Yes that year was hell, but at least everybody and their children are alive to see another year at life.

Although Fable 3 handles this potentially fantastic concept rather poorly. But thats a discussion for another time.

Point is, just because your popular, doesn't mean your what the people need. Ferelden needed a leader that was willing to do what was necessary, a leader to put the future and well-being of the people first. Cailen wouldn't have done this. Loghain would have. He was willing to make sacrifices. And no he wouldn't have chosen to attack Orlais or provoke them, since that would mean another war and another occupation. He would have avoided that.

If I recall correctly, they did not know whether there was even an arch demon at the time, so he wouldn't have considered telling him.

They highly suspected it, since the Wardens can sense the things. And either way, the Wardens were still treating it like a Blight, Loghain seemed to be taking it seriously, and Cailan was treating it like damn party.

how can you be so sure he'd have helped them he may have thought it was a trick to keep them around. considering its a game and all we'll never know what may have happened since they wrote the story and all. we can only make blind guesses as to what may have happened or not.

Help who? There's like, 3 groups you could be referring to. I'm not sure which one.

And yeah, we can only make blind guesses. But thats half the fun!

 

[Tony2077]

I hold some sympathy for the Enclave, I mean, I made their leader blow up by talking to it. If anything, they were mislead.

Spoiler: Ordinaryundone

Except Loghain was completely unwilling to fight the true threat that was facing Ferelden, and was too consumed with politics, wrongfully usurping the throne, and his extreme paranoia regarding Olesians that under his rule Ferelden would have collapsed completely.

Also, you have to remember that in the Dragon Age world, EVERY SINGLE BLIGHT has been stopped by a Grey Warden. Its well known history; nearly everyone you talk to, even simple farmers and guards, know that Grey Wardens are important. Loghain only kills them because they are so popular, and are so close to the Royal Family. They would have been a true obstacle to his coup, given the influence they wield (as we see in the game). Plus, the Wardens make it perfectly clear why they don't reveal the secret of their powers. If they did, no one would ever volunteer to be a Grey Warden, no matter how important they were.

I didn't kill Loghain because he was a jerk. I didn't kill him because I liked Alistair. I killed him because, if he was in charge, he would have fettered his army away in a civil war while the Darkspawn destroyed everything. They were the real, and only, threat. Loghain was simply too shortsighted and paranoid to see that.

Also, THE GUY COMMITS REGICIDE. And while Cailan might have been a bit of a dink, he was still the rightful holder of the throne and a popular king to boot. And as the rest of the game shows, Cailan's decision to face the blight head-on, providing full support to the Wardens, was actually the correct one, no matter what Loghain thought.

He was willing to face the Darkspawn. Which is why he was busy in politics, he was trying to get the nobles on his side. Unlike you, he doesn't have any treaties that guarantee support, he had to do it the old fashioned way, by going through politics.

And the problem with the Wardens could have been solved with Duncan talking to Loghain in private for 5 minutes to explain why the Wardens were needed to kill the Archdemon.

He wasn't shortsighted. Your focus was on the Darkspawn, and getting all the help you could to fight them. But what about after? You think that large Orlesian army would just walk away from a really weak Ferelden? No nation is that nice. You'd have saved Ferelden, but you would most likely have also started another Orlesian occupation.

And just because your popular, doesn't mean your a good king. This reminds me of Fable 3.

Spoiler: Fable 3 spoilers follow

In Fable 3, you get to be king. But you also learn that a great evil is coming in 1 year's time. You have 2 ways to proceed throughout this 1 year. You can be a popular king, doing what the people wish and making them happy. Or you could be a tyrant and do unpopular things, making them hate you.

Know what happens? If your a "good" king, everbody dies. Because you were too focused on making them happy rather then making sure they'll live. You made them happy, but they're all dead now.

Whereas if you pick the tyrant road, everybody lives. Yes that year was hell, but at least everybody and their children are alive to see another year at life.

Although Fable 3 handles this potentially fantastic concept rather poorly. But thats a discussion for another time.

Point is, just because your popular, doesn't mean your what the people need. Ferelden needed a leader that was willing to do what was necessary, a leader to put the future and well-being of the people first. Cailen wouldn't have done this. Loghain would have. He was willing to make sacrifices. And no he wouldn't have chosen to attack Orlais or provoke them, since that would mean another war and another occupation. He would have avoided that.

If I recall correctly, they did not know whether there was even an arch demon at the time, so he wouldn't have considered telling him.

They highly suspected it, since the Wardens can sense the things. And either way, the Wardens were still treating it like a Blight, Loghain seemed to be taking it seriously, and Cailan was treating it like damn party.

how can you be so sure he'd have helped them he may have thought it was a trick to keep them around. considering its a game and all we'll never know what may have happened since they wrote the story and all. we can only make blind guesses as to what may have happened or not.

Help who? There's like, 3 groups you could be referring to. I'm not sure which one.

And yeah, we can only make blind guesses. But thats half the fun!

the wardens and the army at the beginning

 

[Irridium]

the wardens and the army at the beginning

Ah, I see.

True, its possible he wouldn't have or couldn't have helped them, but I'd doubt he would go through with his "Wardens are the cause of all this evil". Instead of a bounty, he would have probably called them all to meet with him and try to make a new plan.

 

[Ladette]

Loghain is a badass, unless I want Alister around for the epilogue I kick him out for Loghain ever time. He actually seems to be a pretty decent fellow once

Spoiler

he becomes a Grey Warden.

To be honest the character I really wanted to kill was Duncan, I hated him from the moment I met him. Especially if you try and refuse to join the Grey Warden's, he pulls out that bullshit "conscription" garbage that your character cannot refuse. By extension, Alister's constant whining about Duncan has led to me hating him.

 

[Caligulust]

I hold some sympathy for the Enclave, I mean, I made their leader blow up by talking to it. If anything, they were mislead.

Spoiler: Ordinaryundone

Except Loghain was completely unwilling to fight the true threat that was facing Ferelden, and was too consumed with politics, wrongfully usurping the throne, and his extreme paranoia regarding Olesians that under his rule Ferelden would have collapsed completely.

Also, you have to remember that in the Dragon Age world, EVERY SINGLE BLIGHT has been stopped by a Grey Warden. Its well known history; nearly everyone you talk to, even simple farmers and guards, know that Grey Wardens are important. Loghain only kills them because they are so popular, and are so close to the Royal Family. They would have been a true obstacle to his coup, given the influence they wield (as we see in the game). Plus, the Wardens make it perfectly clear why they don't reveal the secret of their powers. If they did, no one would ever volunteer to be a Grey Warden, no matter how important they were.

I didn't kill Loghain because he was a jerk. I didn't kill him because I liked Alistair. I killed him because, if he was in charge, he would have fettered his army away in a civil war while the Darkspawn destroyed everything. They were the real, and only, threat. Loghain was simply too shortsighted and paranoid to see that.

Also, THE GUY COMMITS REGICIDE. And while Cailan might have been a bit of a dink, he was still the rightful holder of the throne and a popular king to boot. And as the rest of the game shows, Cailan's decision to face the blight head-on, providing full support to the Wardens, was actually the correct one, no matter what Loghain thought.

He was willing to face the Darkspawn. Which is why he was busy in politics, he was trying to get the nobles on his side. Unlike you, he doesn't have any treaties that guarantee support, he had to do it the old fashioned way, by going through politics.

And the problem with the Wardens could have been solved with Duncan talking to Loghain in private for 5 minutes to explain why the Wardens were needed to kill the Archdemon.

He wasn't shortsighted. Your focus was on the Darkspawn, and getting all the help you could to fight them. But what about after? You think that large Orlesian army would just walk away from a really weak Ferelden? No nation is that nice. You'd have saved Ferelden, but you would most likely have also started another Orlesian occupation.

And just because your popular, doesn't mean your a good king. This reminds me of Fable 3.

Spoiler: Fable 3 spoilers follow

In Fable 3, you get to be king. But you also learn that a great evil is coming in 1 year's time. You have 2 ways to proceed throughout this 1 year. You can be a popular king, doing what the people wish and making them happy. Or you could be a tyrant and do unpopular things, making them hate you.

Know what happens? If your a "good" king, everbody dies. Because you were too focused on making them happy rather then making sure they'll live. You made them happy, but they're all dead now.

Whereas if you pick the tyrant road, everybody lives. Yes that year was hell, but at least everybody and their children are alive to see another year at life.

Although Fable 3 handles this potentially fantastic concept rather poorly. But thats a discussion for another time.

Point is, just because your popular, doesn't mean your what the people need. Ferelden needed a leader that was willing to do what was necessary, a leader to put the future and well-being of the people first. Cailen wouldn't have done this. Loghain would have. He was willing to make sacrifices. And no he wouldn't have chosen to attack Orlais or provoke them, since that would mean another war and another occupation. He would have avoided that.

If I recall correctly, they did not know whether there was even an arch demon at the time, so he wouldn't have considered telling him.

They highly suspected it, since the Wardens can sense the things. And either way, the Wardens were still treating it like a Blight, Loghain seemed to be taking it seriously, and Cailan was treating it like damn party.

Still though, they weren't certain. If it had appeared, I'm sure they would have talked strategy. It's been a while since I've played the game, but I also believe Loghain didn't really think much of the Wardens, believing they held little significance. Duncan had no way of knowing he was going to be betrayed. He wouldn't have known that it was dire his purpose be stated. Loghain made a dangerous assumption in underestimating the Wardens, one that would have doomed everyone had the player not survived.

 

[Irridium]

I hold some sympathy for the Enclave, I mean, I made their leader blow up by talking to it. If anything, they were mislead.

Spoiler: Ordinaryundone

Except Loghain was completely unwilling to fight the true threat that was facing Ferelden, and was too consumed with politics, wrongfully usurping the throne, and his extreme paranoia regarding Olesians that under his rule Ferelden would have collapsed completely.

Also, you have to remember that in the Dragon Age world, EVERY SINGLE BLIGHT has been stopped by a Grey Warden. Its well known history; nearly everyone you talk to, even simple farmers and guards, know that Grey Wardens are important. Loghain only kills them because they are so popular, and are so close to the Royal Family. They would have been a true obstacle to his coup, given the influence they wield (as we see in the game). Plus, the Wardens make it perfectly clear why they don't reveal the secret of their powers. If they did, no one would ever volunteer to be a Grey Warden, no matter how important they were.

I didn't kill Loghain because he was a jerk. I didn't kill him because I liked Alistair. I killed him because, if he was in charge, he would have fettered his army away in a civil war while the Darkspawn destroyed everything. They were the real, and only, threat. Loghain was simply too shortsighted and paranoid to see that.

Also, THE GUY COMMITS REGICIDE. And while Cailan might have been a bit of a dink, he was still the rightful holder of the throne and a popular king to boot. And as the rest of the game shows, Cailan's decision to face the blight head-on, providing full support to the Wardens, was actually the correct one, no matter what Loghain thought.

He was willing to face the Darkspawn. Which is why he was busy in politics, he was trying to get the nobles on his side. Unlike you, he doesn't have any treaties that guarantee support, he had to do it the old fashioned way, by going through politics.

And the problem with the Wardens could have been solved with Duncan talking to Loghain in private for 5 minutes to explain why the Wardens were needed to kill the Archdemon.

He wasn't shortsighted. Your focus was on the Darkspawn, and getting all the help you could to fight them. But what about after? You think that large Orlesian army would just walk away from a really weak Ferelden? No nation is that nice. You'd have saved Ferelden, but you would most likely have also started another Orlesian occupation.

And just because your popular, doesn't mean your a good king. This reminds me of Fable 3.

Spoiler: Fable 3 spoilers follow

In Fable 3, you get to be king. But you also learn that a great evil is coming in 1 year's time. You have 2 ways to proceed throughout this 1 year. You can be a popular king, doing what the people wish and making them happy. Or you could be a tyrant and do unpopular things, making them hate you.

Know what happens? If your a "good" king, everbody dies. Because you were too focused on making them happy rather then making sure they'll live. You made them happy, but they're all dead now.

Whereas if you pick the tyrant road, everybody lives. Yes that year was hell, but at least everybody and their children are alive to see another year at life.

Although Fable 3 handles this potentially fantastic concept rather poorly. But thats a discussion for another time.

Point is, just because your popular, doesn't mean your what the people need. Ferelden needed a leader that was willing to do what was necessary, a leader to put the future and well-being of the people first. Cailen wouldn't have done this. Loghain would have. He was willing to make sacrifices. And no he wouldn't have chosen to attack Orlais or provoke them, since that would mean another war and another occupation. He would have avoided that.

If I recall correctly, they did not know whether there was even an arch demon at the time, so he wouldn't have considered telling him.

They highly suspected it, since the Wardens can sense the things. And either way, the Wardens were still treating it like a Blight, Loghain seemed to be taking it seriously, and Cailan was treating it like damn party.

Still though, they weren't certain. If it had appeared, I'm sure they would have talked strategy. It's been a while since I've played the game, but I also believe Loghain didn't really think much of the Wardens, believing they held little significance. Duncan had no way of knowing he was going to be betrayed. He wouldn't have known that it was dire his purpose be stated. Loghain made a dangerous assumption in underestimating the Wardens, one that would have doomed everyone had the player not survived.

Loghain believed they held little significance because the nobody said why they were really needed. I'm sure he asked, but chances are the Wardens, or Duncan, just said "it is not something for you to know. Just trust us, we're needed." or something along those lines.

Not exactly the most convincing argument.

 

[Tony2077]

I hold some sympathy for the Enclave, I mean, I made their leader blow up by talking to it. If anything, they were mislead.

Spoiler: Ordinaryundone

Except Loghain was completely unwilling to fight the true threat that was facing Ferelden, and was too consumed with politics, wrongfully usurping the throne, and his extreme paranoia regarding Olesians that under his rule Ferelden would have collapsed completely.

Also, you have to remember that in the Dragon Age world, EVERY SINGLE BLIGHT has been stopped by a Grey Warden. Its well known history; nearly everyone you talk to, even simple farmers and guards, know that Grey Wardens are important. Loghain only kills them because they are so popular, and are so close to the Royal Family. They would have been a true obstacle to his coup, given the influence they wield (as we see in the game). Plus, the Wardens make it perfectly clear why they don't reveal the secret of their powers. If they did, no one would ever volunteer to be a Grey Warden, no matter how important they were.

I didn't kill Loghain because he was a jerk. I didn't kill him because I liked Alistair. I killed him because, if he was in charge, he would have fettered his army away in a civil war while the Darkspawn destroyed everything. They were the real, and only, threat. Loghain was simply too shortsighted and paranoid to see that.

Also, THE GUY COMMITS REGICIDE. And while Cailan might have been a bit of a dink, he was still the rightful holder of the throne and a popular king to boot. And as the rest of the game shows, Cailan's decision to face the blight head-on, providing full support to the Wardens, was actually the correct one, no matter what Loghain thought.

He was willing to face the Darkspawn. Which is why he was busy in politics, he was trying to get the nobles on his side. Unlike you, he doesn't have any treaties that guarantee support, he had to do it the old fashioned way, by going through politics.

And the problem with the Wardens could have been solved with Duncan talking to Loghain in private for 5 minutes to explain why the Wardens were needed to kill the Archdemon.

He wasn't shortsighted. Your focus was on the Darkspawn, and getting all the help you could to fight them. But what about after? You think that large Orlesian army would just walk away from a really weak Ferelden? No nation is that nice. You'd have saved Ferelden, but you would most likely have also started another Orlesian occupation.

And just because your popular, doesn't mean your a good king. This reminds me of Fable 3.

Spoiler: Fable 3 spoilers follow

In Fable 3, you get to be king. But you also learn that a great evil is coming in 1 year's time. You have 2 ways to proceed throughout this 1 year. You can be a popular king, doing what the people wish and making them happy. Or you could be a tyrant and do unpopular things, making them hate you.

Know what happens? If your a "good" king, everbody dies. Because you were too focused on making them happy rather then making sure they'll live. You made them happy, but they're all dead now.

Whereas if you pick the tyrant road, everybody lives. Yes that year was hell, but at least everybody and their children are alive to see another year at life.

Although Fable 3 handles this potentially fantastic concept rather poorly. But thats a discussion for another time.

Point is, just because your popular, doesn't mean your what the people need. Ferelden needed a leader that was willing to do what was necessary, a leader to put the future and well-being of the people first. Cailen wouldn't have done this. Loghain would have. He was willing to make sacrifices. And no he wouldn't have chosen to attack Orlais or provoke them, since that would mean another war and another occupation. He would have avoided that.

If I recall correctly, they did not know whether there was even an arch demon at the time, so he wouldn't have considered telling him.

They highly suspected it, since the Wardens can sense the things. And either way, the Wardens were still treating it like a Blight, Loghain seemed to be taking it seriously, and Cailan was treating it like damn party.

Still though, they weren't certain. If it had appeared, I'm sure they would have talked strategy. It's been a while since I've played the game, but I also believe Loghain didn't really think much of the Wardens, believing they held little significance. Duncan had no way of knowing he was going to be betrayed. He wouldn't have known that it was dire his purpose be stated. Loghain made a dangerous assumption in underestimating the Wardens, one that would have doomed everyone had the player not survived.

the dreams the wardens had told them it was a real blight with a archdemon leading it. i don't recall if they could be blocked out or not since its been awhile for me and i never finished it

p.s. which dwarf makes a better king i can't remember i plan to play it and does da2 have a import feature

 

[WrongSprite]

Teyrn Loghain from Dragon Age Origins.

Long have I hated that asshole. Then while on the internet someone blew my mind about his character and I now see him as one of the greatest hero's ever. Yes, hero. More of a hero then you were.

Spoiler: The following is the post I'm talking about:

Bioware makes teh good gaemz. It's hard to dispute that. And in 2009, they released one of their finest games ever: Dragon Age: Origins.

A throwback to old school RPG's, Dragon Age: Origins was a massive treat to a large part of the role-play gamer demographic. Yet even though people praised it, they all failed to notice something through their first playthrough of the game. Something that some people are still oblivious to.

BIOWARE MADE YOU LOOK LIKE A FOOL!

They turned you into a narrow-minded goodie two-shoes that, in reality, would have spelled out the doom of the world. But Bioware were cruel and let you live oblivious to the fact that you were a dumbass that can't save a country for shit.

How did they do this, you ask? It's simple!

Meet the true hero of Ferelden:

Here is the man that liberated Ferelden from an oppressing nation that had occupied the country for 100 years. Here is the man that saved his homeland from a monarch that cared more about glory then what is best for everyone. Here is the man that had a purpose behind everything that he did, a man that only cared for the safety of his kinsmen.

And you totally killed him.

Don't deny it. You did. You killed him so Alistair wouldn't leave your team. You killed him because he was, from your naive and unfocused perspective, a meanie head.

But he never was.

You hate him because he killed your noble family? Sacrifices for the greater good. They, like you, would be too narrow-minded to see the bigger picture and would oppose him. Having Howe murder the shit out of them would get rid of opposition and strengthen the support from one of your allies.

You hate him because he enslaved elves? That's true, it's a dickish thing to do. He should have ignored them and let them live in poverty and subject them to prejudice. Why give them the chance to at least live someplace decent when he could just have them live in the incredibly shitty place they're currently residing in? It's not like they are regularly harassed by rapist nobl-Oh wait. So yeah, you saved them so they can continue living in poverty and saved them just in time so they could be murdered relentlessly by the Darkspawn. Way to go, hero.

You hate him because he killed Duncan? Let me ask you something. How well do you know Duncan? Did you, at any point, find that he has a personality? Did you ever stop to consider that he is incredibly bland and boring, and that he only cares about ending the blight and doesn't let anything else enter his mind? Ever realized that he's narrow-minded? Or that he looks kinda Hindu?

You hate him because he abandoned the army at Ostagar and made you look like a villain? Here's a little information: Even if Loghain would have stayed and helped, there was a very, very big chance that they would still lose. More people would've died, and it would be impossible to stop the Darkspawn from destroying Ferelden.

And as for you Wardens, what the crap was he supposed to do? He needed someone to put the blame on, and you were only two people. TWO PEOPLE. That's a pretty measly sacrifice for the safety of the nation.

You hate him because he nearly doomed the country by trying to kill the Grey Wardens, who are the only people physically able to kill the Archdemon? You know who you should hate for that? THE ENTIRE FUCKING GREY WARDEN ORGANIZATION! They were the ones who kept this entire ordeal secret, even for the fucking King. Loghain didn't know that a Grey Warden was needed to kill an Archdemon, because he was never told how it worked. He was told that they were needed to kill it for some vague, unspecific reason, but would you seriously, unconditionally believe that? I know I wouldn't, cause it would be fucking stupid.

And so to anyone who killed Loghain thinking he deserved it: YOU ARE WRONG! He is, in fact, much more of a hero than you. He didn't have no fucking Deus Ex Machina treaties that you had. He had to build an army from scratch. He couldn't save the country without making sacrifice, like you somehow were able to do thanks to the power of love. All this time Loghain has been the real hero, while the main character has been living a cliche lie. A lie that makes Dragon Age even more fucking brilliant than it already is, because several times over that lie makes you do decisions that bites you in the ass.

(Though it's a shame that Bioware are often too retarded to think more than 5 minutes ahead of the story, otherwise you wouldn't be able to simply reload a slightly older save to fix something you eventually found out to be a bad choice. LEARN FROM THE WITCHER, BIOWARE!)

So yeah. Thats why I feel sorry for Loghain.

Also Saren. He was just trying to do what he thought was best, which was "save some people rather then having everyone everywhere die", then had his views warped by Sovereign, eventually becoming indoctrinated without realizing it. Eventually he kills himself because he knows what he has become, and that he can never go back.

Actually, I told Alistair to go away, never liked him.

 

[Trolldor]

Eurgh... Loghain's character was established very clearly as the fallen hero. He admits it himself, his obsession with Orlais blinded him.

He's definitely a more interesting character to play with, pity he comes to the game so late, but no he's not in anyway in the right.

 

[Detective Prince]

Course. Villains you sympathise with are one of the best kinds of villain. Mine would probably be well firstly I always felt sorry for Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time. I'm not really sure why but I just did. Then the next time I felt sorry for a bad guy was definately Zant from Twilight Princess...Wow LoZ really did a number on me in the department.
Big Boss, of course, and The Boss. Also Liquid Snake. The whole trying to surpass your brother thing is something I can really relate to. XD