Sympathy for the Devil

[userwhoquitthesite]

The Boss, Big Boss, Liquid They all where tragic and I honestly felt sad when it forced you to end The Boss's life she was a great char

The Metal Gear series is a damnably amazing series that is excellent in every way except dialogue. The overly loquacious lean coming from the japanese, as well as some sub-par acting on occasion let the series down in many respects. The Boss, and Big Boss were awesome characters. Liquid, on the other hand was a pissant with an inferiority complex. His entire motivation is that he thinks he should be the top dog. Liquid Ocelot, though, was not liquid. He is a big damn hero. Fuck yeah Ocelot. Liquid whined, Ocelot GAVE UP HIS BRAIN to save the planet, while PRETENDING to be liquid. But I am rambling.

I feel a bit of sympathy for the "real" devil. God makes you do everything he says and then locks you in his castle for all of eternity to make you do all the chores for him and his son (he's evil because he can). The devil gets stuck with you if you don't do what god says, and is forced to punish you for it (by god). He just acts evil because he has too. That's just me talking anyways. But then again, the whole religion was invented by medieval folks who couldn't tell a cloud from heaven. (religion= mortal fear countered by fancy stories to make people feel at ease)

Actually, he was cast down from heaven because Satan thought he could do the job BETTER than god. For his arrogance and disobedience to his lord and creator, he was banished and disowned. The devil isn't punishing sinners because god told him to, because he and his army are being punished with the sinners. If anything, its a "if i must be miserable, you will be too" affair. Of course that all depends on what level of judeo-christian belief you use. After all, the bible mentions next to nothing of the devil, and early judeaism (fuck spelling) believed in only God, and the devil was invented later to justify why Pretty Freakin' Terrible shit keeps happening if God is always good. Most of modern belief (assuming an actual knowledge of religion instead of what TV spouts, and I don't mean to insinuate that the person i'm quoting is lacking in his understanding of christianity, which is a religion I do not practice) comes from essentially fanfiction. Dante's Comedy was a private revenge and redemption fantasy where all the guys he thought were dicks got punished, he was given a free pass into heaven, and he got to hang out with his dead girlfriend who is TOTALLY HOTTER THAN THE HOLY MOTHER OF CHRIST, WHO IS ONLY THE SECOND MOST BEAUTIFUL CREATURE IN EXISTENCE. no seriously, read Paradise. After he died (pretty much after finishing the book) the church was like "holy balls, this guy is TOTALLY RIGHT, and renamed it the DIVINE Comedy, and declared it canon. Milton's Paradise Lost, while to the best of my knowledge not canonical within catholic belief, helped popularize the idea of Lucifer, war against god, yadda yadda. Everyone KNOWS that the devil will offer you trinkets in exchange for your soul, but that idea pretty much came from Dr. Faustus. Charlie Daniels has much of the world convinced the devil hangs around looking for violin challenges. Back on topic Professor! *slaps self*

Does Andrew Ryan qualify? If so then yes.

Also Zeus from the God of War games. Basically Kratos was acting evil and Zeus was justified in doing that. Not that I have no sympathy for Kratos.

Actually, Ares fucks Kratos up originally, then Zeus fucks Kratos up because he feared him, not because he was doing wrong.

Actually, Zeus fucks Kratos up because Kratos is being a dickhead and stomping all the other gods towns. Kratos acts like a dickhead because all the other gods won't let him sit with them at the Olympian Lunchtable (per GoW 2). They won't let't play any reindeer games because (in GoW2) they don't think he's cool enough because he's a poor kid from the mortal side of town and also {according to 3} because they are all infected with evils from the mcguffin box he used to Power Rangers ares to death. murdering the piss out of ares is yet another reason why the gods hate your face off in 3, despite them all telling you to do it and full-on aiding you in doing so. He killed ares because ares was a dickface to everyone and tricked kratos into murdering his own family, instead of some OTHER group of living beings, which would be totally ok. His family was killed because after kratos royally fucked up on the battlefield as a hotshot captain, he yelled for his big brother to beat up the kids picking on him (technically, thats not even an exaggeration, since mythologically, ares and kratos would be half-brothers). So really, god of war is a series of EVERYONE GETTING EXACTLY WHAT THEY DESERVE. Violent death.

I felt for Andrew Ryan in Bioshock (would you kindly count him?)

Ryan is a good villain, because he's definitely a fucked-up asshole, but then he's only doing it because everyone keeps ruining a good thing. That said, for all his "noble intentions" he still was just saying "well i guess i'll take my ball and go home". lame. Still, Fontaine's shortsightedness would have doomed rapture, so ryan gets a point.

Morrowind.... Dagoth Ur.

Spoiler

He was trying to crush those that betrayed himself and your own previous incarnation.
He had gone mad over time, but he had the right idea. After he died, I finished what he started and killed the traitorous bastards.

Then again, Ur himself betrayed his station when he refused to give Sunder and Keening to Nerevar. Granted, the madness had already set in, but he's certainly not faultless. But yes, those insolent bastards met their end. Tip for some fun: fight Vivec wearing helseth's royal signet ring and laugh at his failure to do any harm to you. Alternately, spawn vivec and almalexia and make them fight. It warms the soul.

Virgil DMC3 All he wanted was power whats so bad about that?

I want more power in life don't you?

the question is the one dante asked him: What is he going to do with his power? Then again, vergil makes an offhand comment about protection, so maybe he was a good guy in secret. Fanfiction, go! /shudder

Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste....

Any ways on topic, Logan from fable 3, I thought he was doing the right thing all along, even if it was a bit silly not to tell everyone they're going to be killed by a giant Muk if they don't raise enough money.

Logan's heelfaceturn is just one of many problems Fable 3 has. Mos importantly, as you say, telling people "hey, gonna need to take some damned hard measures to try and keep you all not dead" would make much more sense than whatever you end up doing. That said, I think it is clear logan wasn't cut out for the job and was glad to have a good reason to abdicate and run like hell

Lucien from Fable 2, i mean he was just doing it to get his family back, can't really blame him for his motives, however his means were kinda dickish.

Lucien deserves no sympathy. Offer the mindless idiots of albion a salary for digging up the magic time-space erection, and send it to THEIR families. While the men are at the tower, work them hard, but tell them they all are awesome for working so hard. Then, magic your family not dead (too bad no one but the hero carries those anti-death potions, huh?) and SECRETLY make everyone not evil. No one gets hurt, no need to shoot orphan children and dogs, and Theresa could have stayed quietly dead of a slit damned throat. Really, if anyone is the bad guy here, theresa fits the bill. Why can't she Old Kingdom the crawler away? is it just more fun to watch people die because the kingdom landlord has trouble budgeting?

WHO WANTS TO SEE MY ON-TOPIC CONTENT?!
I sympathize greatly with Ganondorf. Yes, Ganondorf, the Evil for the Sake of Evil King of the Gerudo, Wielder of the Triforce of Power. Why? Because, he isn't trying to take over Hyrule just to do it... He wants to rule the world because he thinks he is the best equipped to do so. After all, Hyrule itself is nothing great, the kingdom is always loosely aligned into a cold war scenario where all of the heavily present racism between the peoples of the land threaten to flare up into violence, and everyone is out to screw over their neighbor. Ganondorf's people may be thieves, but they aren't nearly as dickish as the hylians, Zora, or gorons. There's actually a lot going on under the surface of the LoZ series, and its impressive how deep the world actually is. But poor ganondorf, he is blinded by his pride and anger and cannot see the flaws in his own character, and that he is unqualified for the leadership of a kingdom. Or maybe I'm making it up as I go along

Oh, one last thing to make this post a little longer, back to God Of War. I watched the "making of" video that came with 3... I want to PUNISH the ignorant filth that appear in that viedo. Buckaroo Banzai can live, despite his terrible performance as host, but the GoW staff that appear in that video... It's appalling! any time classical reference is made or Greek mythology discussed, they demonstrate a complete lack of any knowledge to their subject. The douchebag with the hat and the one idiot woman who knows nothing about the very myths THE GAMES ARE BASED AROUND! Gah so much angritude

 

[Scarecrow]

Yes, in The World Ends With You.

Spoiler

The Conductor was actually trying to SAVE the Shibuya, and not kill the main characters. He died, but both the protagonists and the town was saved. Kinda sad..

Damn ninja.

 

[Cogwheel]

FF9, Kuja. Hard not to feel sorry for him.

Other than that? Arcanum. Big time. Endgame spoilers ahead, mind.

Spoiler

The final boss, Kerghan, has been masquerading as what amounts to a magical elf supervillain of mythical times. Just to trick all the dark elves into supporting him, plus an ancient order of assassins. Oh, and to deflect suspicion from himself.

He has been imprisoned for massive crimes, in another dimension, at that. He abducted and enslaved an entire tribe of dwarves to work on a device that would allow him to return, and blackmailed some other dwarves into banishing them.

He sends assassins after everyone who knows anything, including you, constantly. He does not hesitate to kill anyone who gets in his way. Bonus points for inventing necromancy. To top it all off? His goal is omnicide. He will return to the world, then kill absolutely everyone, followed by himself. Basically, he believes that life is an abomination, and that death brings perfect peace - he gained this opinion as a result of having been briefly dead.

Fairly horrific villain, right? Except that it's entirely possible that he's right. In fact, one party member, who has died and since been raised by you, pretty much confirms that he is right, but that people should have some choice in the matter, all the same.

Then there's the way he puts it. He's not just convincing for a little while, but you just can't help but feel incredibly sorry for him when you realise how ridiculously broken someone has to be to arrive at that conclusion. It's incredibly well done all the same.

To top it off, you can actually talk to him about it, use his own logic against him at a few points, and eventually convince him that he's wrong, or at least his methods are. Upon realising this, he saves you the trouble and kills himself. Honestly, given the choice, I would have spared him if that didn't seem crueler.

 

[Yostbeef]

Coming to mind recently: Stross from Dead Space 2.
He wasn't completely an antagonist but his actions do become that of one when he loses it to his dementia. He thought that if he stabbed Ellie and Issac in the eye they would be able to see his hallucinations and he could convice himself he wasn't crazy.
So just a poor guy who lost it to dementia, doesn't sincerely want to hurt anybody; however

Spoiler

Issac wrestles a screwdriver from him, leaving him unarmed and not a great threat. Issac's next move is to stick the damn thing through the side of his head.

I thought this was a little extreme and felt sympathy for the guy.

Just finished that up,I had a good time,but yeah was that necessary I to felt really sympathetic for the guy.Did you check out the movie Aftermath?

OT:I always thought Solidus Snake as the tragic figure of that game.He just wanted to be free like every man deserves to be.Instead he's a terrorist that your ordered to take out by the government that's trying to control the world...Wow I love that game,I love the whole series.

 

[Dfskelleton]

The necromorphs in Dead Space. They suck, but do they really deserve to have their legs sawed off and their arms stomped in half?
Actually, I did feel kinda sorry for a few.
Claudia Wolf wasn't truly evil, but mislead by the leaders of her religion and the corroption of Silent Hill to do awful things.
GLaDOS was malfunctioning, therefore insane.
If those things in Amnesia still had conciousness when mutated, knowing what they were to become... ouch.
Other than that, I can't think of many. I like so many villans, but I don't feel sympathy usually, more like "There goes another badass."

 

[Melon Hunter]

Yes, in The World Ends With You.

Spoiler

The Conductor was actually trying to SAVE the Shibuya, and not kill the main characters. He died, but both the protagonists and the town was saved. Kinda sad..

Well...

Spoiler

He was trying to erase Neku because Joshua was using him as his proxy in the Game between Conductor and Composer (although Neku didn't know it). If Kitaniji won, Shibuya was saved. If Joshua won, Shibuya was destroyed. From his viewpoint, Neku and co. were the bad guys who were leading Shibuya into oblivion. Hence the increasingly unfair missions and Game parameters set by the Conductor. Looking back at it, recruiting Beat as a Reaper was the worst thing Kitaniji could have done, as his later betrayal saved Neku from the otherwise impossible-to-win Week 3 game. Bad decisions led to his defeat.

I do have sympathy for Minamiamoto, though. He was awesome. And in hindsight, his Taboo Noise plan was a radical and crudely effective way of erasing Players and Reapers loyal to the Composer alike. I know he was most likely insane himself, but he was trying to wrest control of the position away from Joshua before it was too late and the whole of Shibuya erased.

 

[darth gditch]

Teyrn Loghain from Dragon Age Origins.

Redacted to save space.

I would contest two points. One: you didn't have to kill Loghain. I didn't.

And two: Saren doesn't necessarily kill himself. Only if you convince him.

Still, interesting choices. I would infer you subscribe to utilitarian ethics.

OT: The Illusive Man.

Sure he's shady, but he is a force for humanity in a galaxy that does indeed look down on new space faring civilizations like humanity as second-class citizens. Someone's gotta stand up for our rights.

The Council, while being the "good guys" is charmingly facist in practice.

 

[Irridium]

Teyrn Loghain from Dragon Age Origins.

Redacted to save space.

I would contest two points. One: you didn't have to kill Loghain. I didn't.

And two: Saren doesn't necessarily kill himself. Only if you convince him.

Still, interesting choices. I would infer you subscribe to utilitarian ethics.

OT: The Illusive Man.

Sure he's shady, but he is a force for humanity in a galaxy that does indeed look down on new space faring civilizations like humanity as second-class citizens. Someone's gotta stand up for our rights.

The Council, while being the "good guys" is charmingly facist in practice.

Loghain: Thats true. I'm just going with the assumption that most killed him, or had Alistair kill him, to keep Alistair or because of revenge or whatever.

Saren: Still, it shows he was truly remorseful and felt bad about what he did. He wanted to help, but he knew what he had become, and knew the only way he could help was to kill himself. Its... something else.

 

[Abedeus]

Yes, in The World Ends With You.

Spoiler

The Conductor was actually trying to SAVE the Shibuya, and not kill the main characters. He died, but both the protagonists and the town was saved. Kinda sad..

Well...

Spoiler

He was trying to erase Neku because Joshua was using him as his proxy in the Game between Conductor and Composer (although Neku didn't know it). If Kitaniji won, Shibuya was saved. If Joshua won, Shibuya was destroyed. From his viewpoint, Neku and co. were the bad guys who were leading Shibuya into oblivion. Hence the increasingly unfair missions and Game parameters set by the Conductor. Looking back at it, recruiting Beat as a Reaper was the worst thing Kitaniji could have done, as his later betrayal saved Neku from the otherwise impossible-to-win Week 3 game. Bad decisions led to his defeat.

I do have sympathy for Minamiamoto, though. He was awesome. And in hindsight, his Taboo Noise plan was a radical and crudely effective way of erasing Players and Reapers loyal to the Composer alike. I know he was most likely insane himself, but he was trying to wrest control of the position away from Joshua before it was too late and the whole of Shibuya erased.

Well it wasn't like he WANTED to kill him just to kill him, because he hated him or something like that.

Spoiler

But yeah, Minamimoto was my favorite character. Apparently he wasn't killed. When a player or Reaper dies, they vanish from the world. But Minamimoto was just knocked out unconscious.

Wow, what a weird thread, people speaking in spoilers all the time.

 

[Chunga the Great]

This isn't a game character, but I kind of feel sorry for Richard Nixon, as all anyone will remember him for is Watergate, even though he did quite a few good things.

 

[Hristo Petrov]

I felt a little sorry for Walter Sullivan from Silent Hill 4