Team Fort... you're already sick of the this thread, aren't you?

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ultimateownage

This name was cool in 2008.
Feb 11, 2009
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Kinguendo said:
That wasnt a reply to you, if you looked at the message that was a reply to then you will see the other person was saying it isnt about kills. You and the other guy arent agreeing so stop butting in as though you are on the same side... you arent aren't.
I've read all the other posts, and I was responding to your insinuation that he only cared about kills, and that the Homewrecker had a use. It does not, you will never get a use out of the Homewrecker, you will get killed before you can.
Kinguendo said:
Get some context or fuck off.
Now you're just trolling, no question about it.
Kinguendo said:
Yes, that is exactly what I was saying to you. You clearly didnt read what I said because... well, you know what you wrote which directly goes against what I already said. I already said it isnt only extremes and you automatically came in with "So you would pick the worst weapons." even though I JUST said it wasnt just a choice between the worst of the worst or the best.
What? So because you said it first, out of an inability to understand my response, it means I can't say the same about you? I never said it was a choice between worst or the best, it's a choice between terrible weapons or good but hard to master weapons. Trust me, it is you who does not understand my friend. Go play the game before you start trying to argue your point which quite clearly has no grounding, you just can't admit you're wrong.

*EDIT*
Kinguendo said:
so you removed the majority of the content from my comment and left.
You do notice the hypocrisy in that sentence right?
 

johnsom

New member
May 28, 2009
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Most of the new items are worthless imo. It is fun to change items just for the sake of it. Its aimed more at being different rather then better.
 

Luke5515

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Aug 25, 2008
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Umm...I'm not going into an in depth analysis, but razorback is pretty much one of the most useless your playing something without cps or payloads, then it's the pain train. Give the razor back more damage done so spy, and cover the back of his head. IDK about the pain train.
 

Kinguendo

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Apr 10, 2009
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ultimateownage said:
I've read all the other posts, and I was responding to your insinuation that he only cared about kills, and that the Homewrecker had a use. It does not, you will never get a use out of the Homewrecker, you will get killed before you can.
No you clearly havent, if you had you wouldnt have replied like you did. And if you are going to pick up someone elses argument then at least be on the same side as they are.

ultimateownage said:
Now you're just trolling, no question about it.
NO! Now you are just trolling, completely ignoring what I am saying and saying crap like "What? So because you said it first, out of an inability to understand my response, it means I can't say the same about you?".

ultimateownage said:
What? So because you said it first, out of an inability to understand my response, it means I can't say the same about you? I never said it was a choice between worst or the best, it's a choice between terrible weapons or good but hard to master weapons. Trust me, it is you who does not understand my friend. Go play the game before you start trying to argue your point which quite clearly has no grounding, you just can't admit you're wrong.
Yes, I said it first AND mine was actually relevent! You didnt read what I said or you wouldnt have said "break their legs before a race" even though I had already said its not about just the extremes which is what you are saying it is.

ultimateownage said:
You do notice the hypocrisy in that sentence right?
And another fine display that you are either making the choice NOT to read my comments before you reply or you simply cant read.

EDIT: Oh and correcting "arent" to "aren't" clearly shows you are trolling. You are doing petty things to try and annoy me.
 

mountainfire

Forum Lurker
Jan 23, 2009
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AlphaOmega said:
Enough with the arguing.

How about them hats?!
No kidding. Keep in mind, guys, that TF2 is first and foremost a hat simulator. It just happens to be war-themed.
 

Ekit

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Oct 19, 2009
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Force-A-Nature is pretty useless. It can be improved by making it do more damage.
 

LightOfDarkness

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Mar 18, 2010
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Aratus said:
It got buffed didnt it? 15% more damage all the time? Its a trade off, but I can see some people liking it more
Actually, the flamethrower got nerfed. They just let the backburner keep original damage so it seems like it got buffed.

IMO The FaN needs to be removed, and BONK! could use a bit of a buff (drinking while moving at a reduced speed?)
 

Mr. Omega

ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE!
Jul 1, 2010
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I have two changes:
1: Give the Demoman a grenade launcher with more than 4 shots. IDK about drawbacks.
2: Don't give sentries the ability to push players back. In certian areas, once they start hitting you, there is NO WAY OUT. Just make them do more dmamage instead, and no pushback ability.
 

ntw3001

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Sep 7, 2009
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There are very few weapons that are completely unusable compared to their alternatives. The razorback, crit-a-cola, the bonesaw and the shovel are the ones I'm thinking of (I'd have said gunboats, but apparently they have some use in comp getting medic picks or such, which would explain the mystifying nerf they recently suffered). The rest of them are either well-balanced or are in that awkward 'pre-buff sandvich' area where one often thinks 'gee whizz, it sure would be useful if I had a homewrecker/bonk/backburner', but their use isn't broad enough to be carrying them around just in case. Once the opportunity comes to reequip, the situation has passed. They're things one would use to solve a specific, occasional problem, but wouldn't want to carry around waiting for the problem to arise.

That said, I think a lot more of the items could use some kind of tweaking, so I'm going to go through the list of items on TF2wiki and talk about them:


Scout

FaN: I actually don't mind this, I just wish it was less widely-used. It's not as good for killing dudes as the scattergun, but I find its knockback useful for clearing objectives and blunting the attacks of close-range classes. In addition, Valve seem to have started designing maps more and more to increase the value of knockback with cliff edges and such. So I'll leave it largely as is, but maybe make the third jump a little less awkward to use; if, instead of applying 'forces' and such to the poor fellow, it just launched him backwards at a given velocity, I suspect the triple-jump would be a tough more significant than it currently is.

Bonk: Replace the bat rather than the pistol.

Crit-a-cola: Remove the downside. It's not worth losing the pistol for something that has a downside as well.

Sandman: Just get rid of the stupid sandman.

Soldier

Equalizer: Remove the additional damage, and leave it as a way of escaping at low health. It'll still be pretty darned useful. In fact, also increase the health cost of rocket jumping a little. He can't jump as much, but he can still move fast. It might also increase the value of gunboats to compensate. A rocket-jumping, fast-running soldier (with no shotgun).

Pyro

Backburner: I'm not really sure. Extra speed would be welcome, to make him actually decent at flanking. Or maybe, uh, +50hp. For balance.

Or wait, how about a smokescreen, firing a cloud of smoke that hangs around, impairing vision and causing damage comparable to afterburn to opponents in the area. It might help to get around an opponent in direct confrontation, and also provides a little area denial. It'd probably be pretty useful, and make up for the disappointing absence of a secondary fire.

Homewrecker: I'm, uh, wait a second.

Fire axe: Give this a speed bonus and it can be friends with the backburner, which doesn't need the axtinguisher if it actually gets the chance to flank anyway (or, whatever, give everything else a speed reduction and increase the basic speed of the class, that's fine too).

Homewrecker: Bring it up to normal damage against players. Instead of having an ass downside, it's got an upside that's sometimes useful. Still not as good as the axtinguisher, though.

Demo

Scottish Resistance: Just make it a little less awkward to set off the bombs. Looking in their very general direction ought to be enough.

Beef

Natascha: Reduce the movement speed while spinning to pre-buff levels, so the beef can't chase people around corners so effectively. And cancel the slowdown on rocket jumping opponents.

Dalokohs bar: Give it a medic-style passive health regen, and increase the amount healed to a damaged beef (maybe 120 like the pre-buff sandvich, which was weak on its own but would probably be useful with this additional combination of abilities).

Engineer

Gunslinger: An extra 25hp for the sentry would allow it to get a few extra hits in when it's been spotted, and allow it to finish constructing under pressure (gunslinger engies are currently too weak on the back foot to pass as a decent attacking class). And make the teleporters cost 100, because that extra 25 metal is a real killer and discourages building something an engy really should be encouraged to build.

Medic

Bonesaw: The bonesaw isn't really bad, it just doesn't compare well to the ubersaw. It's the same situation as the syringe gun/blutsauger used to have, and that was resolved pretty well; now both weapons are useful if the medic wants to make them useful. So we could give the bonesaw a slightly higher rate of uber generation (nothing drastic, maybe around 10% or so), or reduce the ubersaw to make that the case. In the same way as that the blutsauger is massively better when the medic is actively firing needles and worse at all other times, the ubersaw would be a huge upgrade for medics who get the chance to hit an opponent with the ubersaw, and a genuine loss for those who weren't going to actively use it.

Sniper

Huntsman: I'd give the huntsman an extra 25hp. It's still fragile, but a standard-speed, 125hp player who has to slow down before he shoots is not a credible threat in the kind of situations where the huntsman should be optimal.

Razorback: Increase scoped movement speed. That would make it actually worth considering for both rifle and huntsman snipers (especially rifle snipers who stay way at the back, where neither jarate nor the smg are greatly useful).

Tribalman's shiv: Perhaps the actual damage element of bleed effects ought to be lessened. Its main function is to reveal spies, and it's better that way. If the two melee weapons are designed to offer comparable damage, it's not really an interesting choice between the two (although even if they were, the kukri would be better for real melee combat). It goes for the southern hospitality was well, but I think it shouldn't be taken for the purpose of dealing damage. I see it as an anti-spy item like jarate, rather than a genuine fighting weapon. It's also a useful effect for snipers who want to use something other than jarate in their secondary slot.

SMG: I suppose it could use a few more shots in the clip. He's not meant for close combat, but the SNG currently leaves him so defenceless that there's not much reason to take it. I'm happy with the damage being low, but reloading leaves him too open to be as frequent as it is.

Spy

Ambassador: Ugh. I don't like the mechanics for this at all. When it was described in the update reveal, I wasn't expecting something weaker than the revolver. Currently, unless you get a pinpoint headshot, with the first shot, it's useless. I'd have a reduced clip size (2 or 3), much higher power, and a little more accuracy than the revolver. Leave the headshots, or ditch them, I don't care. I'd ditch them. But if it could do around 80 damage per slug, with a slow rate of fire and decent accuracy, it would be a neat choice. It wouldn't open up any new playstyle (it would play just like the revolver, although even more discouraging to direct combat), but it would be good as an option.
 

Phoenixlight

New member
Aug 24, 2008
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Hmm Team Fortress 2 on my PS3 doesn't have any of these interesting special attacks mentioned in this thread :(
 

meepop

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Aug 18, 2009
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WolfLordAndy said:
-Backburner - situational but not useless, in the hands of a pyro that knows the map it can kill many people very quickly, best used either defencively, or on maps where there are lots of routes to get behind the enemy (such as Granary).
[/quote]Not situational, useless. A good Pyro doesn't need back crits because a good pyro KILLS any unaware enemy it catches from behind anyways. Any class does, and both spies and scouts are better fit to run around behind enemy lines.

A good Pyro doesn't need back crits anymore than a spy needs additional back crits. The pyro's problem isn't killing people it catches from behind. No classes have issues killing people from behind. Moving in, on the other hand, can be troublesome. And that's why the Backburner is useless: Because it trades you something you don't need ("overkill" from behind) for something you DO desperately need (airblast).[/quote]

Uhhhh you seem to be forgetting 15% more damage? And by the way spun-up heavies may not survive that long, but they just need about...ohhh... 10 seconds to pump you full of lead.(Maybe less) The FT has compression blast but with 100% crits PLUS 15% dmg from behind the BB equals a dead heavy.

Changing gears, with the Huntsman, I've gotten headshots or downed enemies from medium-to-long distance ranges. What it lacks in direct speed it makes up for with the "Shoot where it's going to be, not where it is at that moment." Enemies don't have to be standing still, it makes it easier, but what you typed mainly makes up enemy snipers. Yeah yeah behaviors and all that, but still most players on there may not wanna die and may end up in your sights by accident because of "I DON'T WANNA DIE!" If you want the map I got kills with the Huntsman on it's Double Cross--You're welcome and have a nice life.
 

DazZ.

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2009
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meepop said:
by the way spun-up heavies may not survive that long, but they just need about...ohhh... 10 seconds to pump you full of lead.
They do approximately -45 health per bullet in the range a pyro needs to be effective, (-15 if they get airblasted).

It really won't take a heavy 10 seconds to take out a Pyro, it also only takes whatever your reaction time is to turn around and stop a pyros crits from working, and with the "Dude you're on fire!" HUD display that won't be more than a second.
 

Outright Villainy

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Jan 19, 2010
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Ekit said:
Force-A-Nature is pretty useless. It can be improved by making it do more damage.
It's a utility weapon, giving it more damage would turn it into a trolling one.

What it really needs is a way to control the knockback to greater effect, like say only knockback on mouse 2. That way you can fire whilst in the air, or 2 shot enemies without knocking them away. It should fire a little slower to compensate. If you actually pick your shots it shouldn't make a difference, it just shouldn't make insta killing too easy.
 

dududf

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Aug 31, 2009
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Kenko said:
Other then that I think the pistols are useless, they do shit dmg and they arent accurate at all.
I love pistols when I'm an engineer. I spy check with them, I kill with them. It's a great gun when you happen to be carrying 200 bullets for it.

It whittles down health stupidly fast.
 

Baradiel

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Mar 4, 2009
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Woh! What have I missed? The Backburner is UNDER-powered now? I thought it was normal to rant about it's insane power, and now they've BUFFED it?

Since I never really play Pyro I didn't really care, but everyone used to be complaining about it's power, and how much it had.

It's only recently that I've seen people who have worked out that the air blast actually does something. I know it can be very useful, but no one seemed to use it.