Team Fort... you're already sick of the this thread, aren't you?

[Caliostro]

Just realized I forgot to reply to you. Sorry bout that.

And no, this thread, originally, was about which weapons are objectively useless. From extensive analysis I have discovered that the aforementioned weapons are, in fact, useless.

You're allowed to use those weapons, much like you're probably allowed to run the Olympic marathon with flippy-floppies, by all means... But don't expect good results with them. You may love the huntsman and think that it's the best thing since the pill, and if you have fun with it then more power to you, but it's objectively inferior in every way to the Sniper Rifle.

I think that they could be used better as more situational weapons i.e. plan a flanking strategy with the backburner, since the crits-from-behind will be very useful; or the Cloak 'n' Dagger for scouting the area, then switching back when you're done with them;, or the Direct Hit when playing against me who constantly rocket jumps thanks to a script since I can't actually rocket-jump for shit.[/quote]

But that's the thing, unless you're facing a completely clueless group of heavies all bunched up in the same spot or something, you don't need the back crits. If you catch things from behind they SHOULD die anyways. And you don't need the Direct Hit to hit someone rocket jumping. It saves you 1 shotgun round at most (usually not even that due to the life you lose on your own by rocket jumping), at the cost of a LOT of versatility. It's not worth it.

Those weapons just no real practical use.

Well not every way, you know. They did design them to be superior in ways that are different compared to the stock ones and such. They all have situations where they truly shine through and can mean the difference between life and death of you and your possible skill (Regarding the Razorback) or your team's defense (Hello wandering HomeWrecker Pyro). They aren't useless, you're just acting like an ass about them.

Edit: Woot, Number of the Beast post.

Just because they were designed to do something, it doesn't mean they do it well, or at all. There's no reason, no real practical situation, where you'd ever need the aforementioned. Some of those have a "1 in a million" use brutally outweighted by whatever deficits they force upon you.

The Razorback only saves you if you're not paying attention to your back AND you're standing close to a sentry (cause otherwise you'll just be shot down by the revolver/ambassador before you have time to react anyways), and it only saves you once per respawn. Both the SMG and the Jarate are far more useful to fend off spies if you're not just sleeping there or playing "generic lousy sniper" mode (staying scoped in all day), as well as being useful anywhere, and very useful against things that aren't just backstabbing spies. So if you're playing well, there's, again, no reason to use the Razorback.

I explained several times before that, again, there's no reason to use the homewrecker. The homewrecker only has a real use if you're playing sentry-defender (which is legitimate in maps where you're playing defense.. A "pyro-defended" sentry nest is absurdly difficult to destroy). But if you're playing sentry-defender, there's no excuse to let a spy both kill your engineer AND sap his shit. You have enough tools at your disposable to make it literally impossible for them to do it with you alive.

There's no need for the weapons I pointed out. None. It's just... You need to know how to play well to notice a lot of it. If you're a bad pyro you're bound to let spies go by even when you're defending your sentry. Maybe It looks like the homewrecker has a lot of use then... particularly cause you most likely can't use the axtinguisher properly. Maybe if you're a bad sniper who can't hit the side of a particularly large barn, the Huntsman seems like a godsend since it replaces the need for skill with luck. Since you can't hit anything with the rifle anyways, any hits/kills you get with the huntsman will feel like an improvement. And so on. Some are more subtle than others (like the FaN and the medic unlocks), but trust me, objectively those weapons serve no purpose.

 

[Kinguendo]

*SNIP!*

No, sir. It is YOU that is trolling. Its become quite apparent that all you are doing is trolling now, your replies never have more depth than "wooosh!" and you are attempting to exploit the fact that I havent played the game for your benefit by lying. You compared ALL the weapons you listed to twinkies and said they need luck... now its 2 because they need luck to get kills out of close range. It easier to win arguments when you arent using the same argument each comment, and thats pretty much how you play games... you lose once so you change weapon... you lose again so again you change weapon... this continues to happen until eventually you have found the best weapon which makes it easiest to win and say that your other arguments werent really what you were saying because they arent as good as what you are saying now.

Maybe it would have worked if it werent so obvious.

Shockingly I do know people who have played TF2 and they disagree with you, there are NO weapons that require luck over anything else. What you are saying is that melee weapons are terrible for long range kills, thus they need luck. Thats idiotic, each weapon has its purpose and each weapons can get kills. Your argument from the start has been that the weapons arent good because they arent the best (dont try to deny it because it clearly IS!), thats a ridiculous argument which just shows how you use the best weapons because you are unskilled and then claim that anyone who doesnt use the best weapons isnt good at TF2 (once again something you said). Each one of your points has already been beaten but you wont accept it, you will simply claim you are on a higher plane and I simply cant understand you like you have been when in reality I have already beaten your points and seen you for what you are. You are trying to belittle other weapons because they take more skill to use, in doing so you are making the position you take (the unskilled one where you use the best weapons) look stronger but you failed.

If you reply in the same vein as you have been doing I will report you for trolling, which I should have been doing from the start but I gave ou a chance to explain yourself or make your points more clear if you didnt mean what you first said... you did not take it so now I realise you are, in fact, a troll.

 

[DazZ.]

Your argument from the start has been that the weapons arent good because they arent the best (dont try to deny it because it clearly IS!), thats a ridiculous argument which just shows how you use the best weapons because you are unskilled and then claim that anyone who doesnt use the best weapons isnt good at TF2 (once again something you said).

Why is hindering yourself considered skillfull? Surely you'd plan to use the best weapons at your disposal and figuring out what is best for what situation takes "skill".

Why the hell is using superior weaponry (which is usually the default setup in TF2) for the situation at hand in anyway less skilful than people who run in with whatever gun looks the prettiest?

 

[Kinguendo]

Your argument from the start has been that the weapons arent good because they arent the best (dont try to deny it because it clearly IS!), thats a ridiculous argument which just shows how you use the best weapons because you are unskilled and then claim that anyone who doesnt use the best weapons isnt good at TF2 (once again something you said).

Why is hindering yourself considered skillfull? Surely you'd plan to use the best weapons at your disposal and figuring out what is best for what situation takes "skill".

Why the hell is using superior weaponry (which is usually the default setup in TF2) for the situation at hand in anyway less skilful than people who run in with whatever gun looks the prettiest?

Only the first person who came up with the class setup is the skilled one because they actually put thought into it, everyone else is doing it because its easy. And who said prettiest? Not mentioned once other than by you.

Its undeniable that the harder something is to do, the more skill it takes to do it. If you are running around with a weapon that kills in one and homes in then you arent as skilled as someone who keeps getting headshots with the sniper, its pretty obvious.

 

[DazZ.]

Only the first person who came up with the class setup is the skilled one because they actually put thought into it, everyone else is doing it because its easy.

So... one person per successful class layout is skilled? Not everyone just copies to find the best weapons, I doubt many do at all.

And who said prettiest? Not mentioned once other than by you.

It was an example of a stupid way to choose a class layout, I never mentioned anyone else said it.

Its undeniable that the harder something is to do, the more skill it takes to do it.

I don't care how skilful it is to use a lesser weapon, you're an idiot if you use it seriously. You're not bringing tactics to the game and thinking about the consequences to your team, and in a team game that's all that matters. I don't give a shit about your kill:death ratio with a backburner, you can't stop the uber that's coming without the airblast, you might get away fine and carry on being skilful elsewhere, other people will suffer.

 

[Caliostro]

Your argument from the start has been that the weapons arent good because they arent the best (dont try to deny it because it clearly IS!), thats a ridiculous argument which just shows how you use the best weapons because you are unskilled and then claim that anyone who doesnt use the best weapons isnt good at TF2 (once again something you said).

Why is hindering yourself considered skillfull? Surely you'd plan to use the best weapons at your disposal and figuring out what is best for what situation takes "skill".

Why the hell is using superior weaponry (which is usually the default setup in TF2) for the situation at hand in anyway less skilful than people who run in with whatever gun looks the prettiest?

Dazz, don't bother, it's a troll. Report and move on.

He just admitted he doesn't even have the game, he's just baiting.

 

[Kinguendo]

Dazz, don't bother, it's a troll. Report and move on.

He just admitted he doesn't even have the game, he's just baiting.

Thats it, I am reporting your ass.

You are lying... AGAIN! I didnt just admit anything, I have maintained from the start that I didnt own the game and that doesnt matter as I was arguing against your points not expressing my thoughts on the game itself.

 

[Kinguendo]

*snip!*

Its called reading, children can do it. I said the first person who thought of it was the skilled one... the rest arent skilled. Remember it was YOU who first said they were skilled for thinking of the best calss, I was correcting YOUR point. Clearly copying someone else isnt skilled at all, the person who came up with the build is the skilled one. Its not hard to grasp.

And I am not saying use the very worst weapons and screw everyone over for your own poops and giggles, its not just the extremes. Its not a case of its either the best or the worst, jeez.

 

[DazZ.]

Thats it, I am reporting your ass.

I like the way you think that will actually do anything. He needs to have done something wrong.

I have maintained from the start that I didnt own the game

Oh right. Well that's pointless then, weapons in TF2 aren't just easier to use etc, they also have functions that help you and everyone around you. Not having them does make you a worse player, and some of the weapons that are being argued as better here actually take more skill to use, it's not about that weapon being easier to kill with.

Seeing as this is game specific, I'd agree with your less retarded points had we been talking about CoD, but this is TF2.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Enough with the arguing.

How about them hats?!

 

[ultimateownage]

Damn large snip

Dude, next you're going to be saying you only use the knife and scout in CSS, because every other weapon isn't shit enough. Professional runners don't break their legs before a race, so why should good gamers use the worst weapons on purpose? Your argument is retarded, the others are right, this has gone right over your head.

 

[Buleet]

The huntsman is really handy for me as i am incapable of quickscoping.in hallways their is nothing an enemy can do but either get lucky or try to kill me.plus i dont get tunnelvision when i try to hit stuff.I kill a lot more things with the huntsman then with the rifle.But i main oldier anyway so that might have something to do with it.

 

[Kinguendo]

Dude, next you're going to be saying you only use the knife and scout in CSS, because every other weapon isn't shit enough. Professional runners don't break their legs before a race, so why should good gamers use the worst weapons on purpose? Your argument is retarded, the others are right, this has gone right over your head.

So when I said its not a case of extremes where its either the very best of the very worst you read something completely different? Good to know the reading capabilities shown so far have remained at their usual low standards.

 

[Kinguendo]

I like the way you think that will actually do anything. He needs to have done something wrong.

Like replying with nothing more than 1 word? Which he did. Constantly being condescending instead of explaining himself? Which he did. Yeah, theres a reason he stopped replying when I told him he would be reported if he kept on giving replies along the same vein as he has been doing.

Oh right. Well that's pointless then, weapons in TF2 aren't just easier to use etc, they also have functions that help you and everyone around you. Not having them does make you a worse player, and some of the weapons that are being argued as better here actually take more skill to use, it's not about that weapon being easier to kill with.

Hmm, yes... its not like he said "Spy-checking is easy and theres no reason why you shouldnt do it.". OH WAIT! He did say that and it takes SOOOOO much skill to spray fire around at anyone that comes near you(!) T_T

He said 2 of the weapons he listed are crap because they take luck to get kills out of close range... now correct me if I am wrong but, arent there melee weapons he listed? Yeah, thats what I thought.

Your arguing that he is saying weapons require certain situations and thus require skill to use except I checked the weapons list and the weapons he listed as bad ARE the ones that are better in certain situations... he didnt list a single standard weapon. Your argument and his are different.

 

[DazZ.]

-snip-

You don't know the game you're talking about, you sound like an idiot when you're explaining situations such as spy checking. Where does weapon difference come into that? Also it's fucking handy to be doing, and you should be. That's one of the main functions of a Pyro, a Pyro is more of a utility than an attacking class, it's not about kills it's being the scissor to the paper of the other team, that's how TF2 works. Don't know why I'm explaining to you, really don't know why you started arguing about a game you don't play.

Also the demos melee is ranged if you're using the targe, so that is relevant.

I'm arguing that using some weapons takes away functions of the class making the player less useful and less skilled as using the default weapons are often harder and more useful.

Also I can see at least 2 standard weapons listed from a quick glance, can't actually be bothered arguing with someone when they don't know what they're talking about and are just arguing for the sake of it.

 

[Kinguendo]

You don't know the game you're talking about, you sound like an idiot when you're explaining situations such as spy checking. Where does weapon difference come into that? Also it's fucking handy to be doing, and you should be. That's one of the main functions of a Pyro, a Pyro is more of a utility than an attacking class, it's not about kills it's being the scissor to the paper of the other team, that's how TF2 works. Don't know why I'm explaining to you, really don't know why you started arguing about a game you don't play.

Also the demos melee is ranged if you're using the targe, so that is relevant.

I'm arguing that using some weapons takes away functions of the class making the player less useful and less skilled as using the default weapons are often harder and more useful.

So, I'm sound like an idiot (when accurately describing the spy-check)... but you had to completely flip your argument? Okay. In your last comment you said its not about weapons being easier to kill with because they have different functions... except the main standard weapons are just for kills. I checked so dont lie, they are just for that.

Go and look at his list, you will see that all of the weapons he listed has been done so because they are worse for kill. The homewrecker is apparantly completely useless... even though it does double damage to engineers buidings, so what must he be thinking of? Kills! It does 25% less damage to people. He listed the Direct Hit as being worse than the Rocket Launcher, why? It does more damage? Oh wait... you have to actually aim with the Direct Hit.

And wow, you dont even know what game you are talking about... the Targe is a secondary weapon NOT a melee one. His melees are the bottle, the eyelander, the pain train and the scotsmans skullcutter. And yeah, things like the targe and the shotgun are clearly for short to medium range. If you are using them for long range kills then you are a retard, if you get long range kills while using them as they should be then good for you. His complaint is weapons that do what they have always been designed to do are crap because they dont get kills outside of their range... T_T

Also, weapon difference comes into the spy-checking because I was talking to the other guy about it and he listed the backburner as being useless. See? THIS is why you dont pick up someone elses argument, you dont even know why it started yet you are sticking your nose in.

 

[ultimateownage]

The homewrecker is apparantly completely useless... even though it does double damage to engineers buidings, so what must he be thinking of? Kills!

Yes, he is thinking of kills. Specifically, the fact that if you try running at a sentry with a sledgehammer, you're going to get your arse handed to you. And if there is no sentry, then the time it takes you to destroy it is irrelevant. Now stop trying to argue to us about a game you know nothing about. You don't know more about a game than people who have played over 500 hours of it.

Dude, next you're going to be saying you only use the knife and scout in CSS, because every other weapon isn't shit enough. Professional runners don't break their legs before a race, so why should good gamers use the worst weapons on purpose? Your argument is retarded, the others are right, this has gone right over your head.

So when I said its not a case of extremes where its either the very best of the very worst you read something completely different? Good to know the reading capabilities shown so far have remained at their usual low standards.

Do you even read the posts you respond to?

 

[DazZ.]

So, I'm sound like an idiot

Yup.

This post has a few things wrong about TF2 gameplay that are blatantly obvious. Just because the targe is in slot two doesn't mean it's not melee, the main weapons have more uses than just killing people and as I've said, I'm not going to argue with people who don't know what they're talking about.

Good day.

 

[Kinguendo]

Yes, he is thinking of kills. Specifically, the fact that if you try running at a sentry with a sledgehammer, you're going to get your arse handed to you. And if there is no sentry, then the time it takes you to destroy it is irrelevant. Now stop trying to argue to us about a game you know nothing about. You don't know more about a game than people who have played over 500 hours of it.

That wasnt a reply to you, if you looked at the message that was a reply to then you will see the other person was saying it isnt about kills. You and the other guy arent agreeing so stop butting in as though you are on the same side... you arent.

Get some context or fuck off.

Do you even read the posts you respond to?

Yes, that is exactly what I was saying to you. You clearly didnt read what I said because... well, you know what you wrote which directly goes against what I already said. I already said it isnt only extremes and you automatically came in with "So you would pick the worst weapons." even though I JUST said it wasnt just a choice between the worst of the worst or the best.

 

[Kinguendo]

i wrong about TF2 gameplay. Good day.

Good that you admit it.

Yeah, I can snip the majority of your comment too. And its good to see you lose yet again. You lost your first argument you picked with me then moved onto Caliostros reply and now that you cant really move onto anyone elses arguments you have to leave. The fact you butted into someone elses arguments instead of just leaving it as you are saying you are now shows you are the type of person who would reply if you had something to reply with... but you dont so you removed the majority of the content from my comment and left.