Teen faces expulsion after brining stun-gun to school to fend off bullies

[Something Amyss]

He's already won because the principal has admitted to asking him to not dress in a homosexual manner and he played the suicide card.

I'm pretty sure years of harassment and facing expulsion isn't what most people would call "winning" (except maybe Charlie Sheen). Schools often have zero tolerance policies for any sort of weapon on school grounds. I doubt they're going to avoid those because of national attention, they're still accountable to the school board. The best he can hope for is that the school works out an arrangement to provide home schooling and allow him to graduate. And hopefully they actually start paying attention.

I doubt anyone would consider attempting or even considering suicide as a win, either.

 

[Nimcha]

It's all fun and games until someone gets shocked into cardiac arrest.

Back in my day, when we had to deal with bullies, we performed a musical number that showed the bullies why they wrong to do such nasty things. They would then join in with our song, proclaiming their lives changed.

The more you know.

Do you by any chance live in Lima, Ohio?

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

While I'm VERY iffy on the fact that he brought a stun gun (a weapon) to school...

On the other hand I want to address something.

To everyone going "he should have just 'manned up' and fought back with his fists":
1) It was SIX ON ONE. Unless you're freakin bruce lee or post-augmentation Adam Jensen, you will get your ass handed to you. You will throw a punch, it will likely get laughed off (and piss the bullies off that "this little wuss doesn't know his place"), and then you will have two bullies holding your arms, one grabbing you in a choke hold, and the others will be kicking you in the balls until you collapse, at which point they will kick you all over your body.

2) Some people aren't built for combat. Both physically and mentally. Personally, I couldn't bring myself to fight back (rather pathetically) in high school more than once or twice because I KNEW what pain feels like, and I didn't want to inflict it on anyone else (oh, and the school was a catholic school with lots of moralizing, which I took super seriously at the time).

3) Even if he DID fight back, the school would likely have overlooked the situation and would maybe have even punished the victim (it's happened before).

4) Unless you stop the bullying the very second it begins, the only way to make them back off is to use overwhelming force. Unless the bully is afraid to attack his preferred victim, he will keep harassing them.

Oh, and to anyone saying "he should have stuck with friends"...
1) He was gay. Gay kids don't tend to have many friends in high school

2) If you're a known bully target, no one will want to associate with you. I made TWO friends total in high school, and both were also social rejects. It helped a little bit, but still didn't stop the bullies from harassing me.

So yeah. While I'm not sure if I support him bringing a stun gun to school, I do commend him for firing it in the air before using it on them.

 

[Wintermoot]

it,s so sad that a kid was forced to bring a weapon to school to defend himself (I know a stun gun is non-lethal but it still counts as a weapon)

 

[Heronblade]

So it's illegal in the U.S. to bring a non-lethal gun in a school for the purposes of self-defense, but it's not illegal to verbally abuse someone there, threaten, and physically assault them? I mean, as far as I can tell, none of the bullies in question got expelled, and yet, the victim was. How does that work?

It is illegal to do all of the latter things.

The problem is enforcing it, particularly in a school setting. The way the rules are set up, in order to do anything, an official effectively has to be there in person to witness an altercation, they can't take the victim's word for it, even with physical evidence that something along those lines did occur. Even then, actually getting anything done can be... difficult, thanks to a phenomenon I like to think of as Overbearing Parent Syndrome.

 

[Comando96]

Were they homophobic, or were they just falling back on the horrible, but unfortunately common method of saying "You got bullied for X? Then don't X!"?

The school is either horribly incompetent, or the school board has a homophobic sentiment lying behind it.

Its a worrying tendidency, school boards have a impartiality clause in how they govern how teachers are allowed to address homosexuality. ie, they are not. They shouldn't address it in some states at all... this led to the side effect of bullying being acceptable so long as you only bully gay kids... that is what I was hinting at.

Its that or severe incompitence. And incompitence can be dealt with by a little bit of fear that the media may be knocking on their door the next day.

 

[FoolKiller]

Most of the thread here saddens me. The holier than thou responses that he shouldn't take a weapon no matter what even though he fears for his life are easy to make when you sit at your computer and not in his shoes.

I wonder though.... if it had been a girl and the six guys threatened to rape or kill her and she pulls out a stun gun, who would all of you be supporting then?

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

Most of the thread here saddens me. The holier than thou responses that he shouldn't take a weapon no matter what even though he fears for his life are easy to make when you sit at your computer and not in his shoes.

I wonder though.... if it had been a girl and the six guys threatened to rape or kill her and she pulls out a stun gun, who would all of you be supporting then?

Very True, most people lack Empathy nowadays because they either don't care about it, or they get dehumanised by the non-direct contact in virtual conversations.

 

[Heronblade]

Just out of curriousity, because I had a friend move from Canada to the US and start school mid year with no problem, what US law prohibits mid year transfers?

And why would they have been beated countless times? After the first beating resulted in the arrest of the bully, it would be over, would it not?

I'm not actually sure what he's talking about.

Mid year transfers can be messy, and are heavily discouraged by the school boards, but I am not currently aware of any actual legal impedance, at least not for transferring with a solid reason to do so.

As for repeated beatings, bullies get away with their actions more than 99% of the time, for a number of reasons, not least the legions of deranged parents that keep interfering in everything the school does.

 

[bobstone]

Jesus christ its a CIVILIAN TASER. How many times must I say that? Its not lethal, its low voltage can NEVER be. The power of a civilian taser hurts, but never kills.

first you are kinda right but for all the wrong reasons, and only kinda right.

civilian tasers typically have a longer cycle since you are expected to shoot, drop it and then run, while a cop is expected to shoot then arrest.

also stun guns typically have a LOT higher voltage then a taser, where they lack is wattage.

here is an a link on the taser differences between a police model and the same version sold for civilian sales
http://www.stungunmall.com/taser-x26c-26009.html

on stun guns vs tasers

http://protectyourself-defense.com/stun_and_taser_information.html

they are different then taser. police will typically use a captive taser ( use it with out firing prods ) and yes tasers are more powerful, but it is not only because of the small wattage increase ( 5-15 for stun guns and 18 for tasers, and lot more for EMD style devices but was that what you where really talking about) but also the size of the contact area (taser prods spreads out a bit making a larger contact patch).

so to recap...
a stun gun is less powerful then a taser but not by much.

a stun gun is a lot less powerful then a EMD style taser.

a police taser is not more powerful then a civilian taser.

you are using the wrong terms for the items involved and don't know the difference between voltage and wattage ( http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/aug98/899698536.Eg.r.html ) and you are also completely misrepresenting this info to the escapist forum users, research before posting next time please.

Jimmie cricket(cause i see no reason to pointless offend religious people) cant people research stuff before they act like experts on the subject.


ok on to main topic

no it was not ok to bring a weapon to school. maybe this kid had a bigger issue then other kids, however where do you cross the line. when it is 6 on 1, or just 1 on 1, how about when it is just verbal abuse? the school was at fault, the mom was at fault, the system was at fault. but there are still better ways.

pull him out of that school, so he misses a semester, is that not better then what could of happened?

also there are online k-12 schools now.

anyways there are a lot of things that could of been done. I do not know all of them but I am not a parent, if I was I would have figured something other then sending my child to school with a weapon. violence can easily escalate, you honestly think those bullies would not have escalated this right back at the kid? what if they didn't have a stun gun but only a gun to respond with next time they met?

 

[ssgt splatter]

As a victim of bullying myself, however not for the same reasons, I would've loved to have a stun gun in SEVERAL situations. I really do believe some people deserve to be electrocuted with a stun gun due to how horribly they treat other people. Hell, I would go as far as to say two bullies I and most of the school had to deal with should have been shot. I hated them with a level of passion that would make me a Sith lord.

 

[Artemicion]

Shooting a stun gun into the air?


That's.... different.

I'm sympathetic towards the gay kid, though. For all their talk, teachers seldom do anything about bullying.

 

[Loonyyy]

-snip-

Exactly. Using a stun gun to intimidate, or, had it gone sour, injure, another person, is clearly not the optimum solution. That would be for the police to prosecute to the full extent of the law, those who would, in a cowardly and unmanly manner, attack someone who refused to compromise their personality (A brave and MANLY decision, whatever he wears or how he acts, as his actions only affected himself), due to the simple bigotry of others. The optimum solution would have these scumbags marked for life by a criminal record, and heavily fined or imprisoned.

Anyone who says: "This has happened for a long time, deal with it."- This is a logical fallacy. Argument from Antiquity. Because something is old does not mean it is right. Racism, slavery, wearing lead based make up, and bloodletting to cure illnesses are all old concepts. I'm fairly sure we can agree these are all bad things, yet since "Back in the 90s" (Which, by the way, I, and probably a large number of the readers here, come from, so really, condescending rubbish doesn't go well) is a suitable excuse for people being assaulted.

And on the topic of martial arts, which most of the "Be a Man" types seem to be blissfully unaware of the application of (You can't learn it in a montage, and The Karate Kid would get his head bashed in by the Kobra Kai psychos), I'm pretty sure a fair number of us have been to karate, judo, or taekwondo at some point. It's not that uncommon. Now, how many think that that training gives you the capability to take out 6 opponents, while doing less damage to them than a stungun could?

To paraphrase my instructor: There are 3 rules of practical self defense (His personal philosophy on the matter. It's by no means definitive, nor the only option. This is simply what I was told in my standard TaeKwonDo class):
1. Your wallet is not worth your life. If you can submit, and flee, do it.
//Clearly not an option here for the kid. He's been cornered by a group who don't want anything from him.
2. If you have to fight, don't fight fair. Aim for sensitive areas. Aim for kneecaps, the gut, if they get close enough, the eyes, ears, and teeth. Even short fingernails can draw blood.
//Protip: Broken kneecaps, missing eyes, burst eardrums, broken elbows or toes, or a concussion, are all far worse than taser burns and bruises from falling.
3. If you're fighting multiple opponents, there is NO WAY to win without blood. You can't restrain them all. You can't restrain even one, with the others free. So your only option is to deal as much damage as you can before fleeing.

Please tell me, how, using what I've been taught, I can overpower my aggressors with my fists, feet, teeth and nails (Assuming I'm strong enough), without doing more harm than a stun gun would? Eyes don't grow back. A knockout punch can cause serious brain damage. Damaged knees can cost thousands to repair. We really are quite fragile beings. To those going on about cardiac arrest: A taser can not cause an instant cardiac arrest, and the odds are even less when used correctly. It can, potentially, cause fibrillation and tachychardia- basically, it can fuck up your heart rate. This is bad. The same effect of course, can be caused by being struck violently in the chest numerous times. This is why CPR is no longer practiced on people. These items are also sold, legally, in the US, for the SPECIFIC PURPOSE of being used to defend oneself against attackers, presumably unarmed (It's a brave person who'd fight off a person who has a knife, with a taser).

There is simply no way through "Manly fisticuffs" to fight off 6 people, without doing them harm. And if you're capable of fighting them off while causing them harm, chances are, you aren't the type who'd be picked on in the first place.

In an ideal world, the kid wouldn't have to bring a stun gun to school. But in this one, he wasn't left with much of a recourse. And what he did was certainly better than bringing a knife, or a real gun, or just punching someone.

And of course, in the manliest world, these bullies would have been man enough to not be bullies, and his fellow students would be man enough to stand up for him. Of course, we aren't all Saxton Hale,

 

[Mr Companion]

She was dumb to give the kid a weapon, though for self defense purposes weapons are great, especially guns. BUT NOT AT SCHOOLS, what I mean is, a weapon is acceptable in life or death scenarios, this guy was not in one of those scenarios.

The school may not have done its job, but the parent pretty much caused mutiny. Weapons are not allowed in schools, period.

She should have taught him martial arts, much more legal.

Against a large group of tougher students? Also she would have to pay for classes, also that would take time in which the bullies would still beat him up or torment him, also that would still achieve the same goal of attacking the bullies until they go away.

 

[Metalchic]

growing up i was subjected to endless bullying from a group of students in various other classes. the group of students primarly bulling me (ie in a physical way) had an obvious leader but still acted more like a hivemind. the 'typical' things your elders tell you to do to deal with these kinds of bullys is to take out the head. it didnt work, i'm quite a bit bigger than the leader of the group was and layed him out with a single strike, stunned his followers didnt pick up and run off instaid ganged up on me and layed me on my ass with far more aggresion.

attempting to get help from the school authroity on such bullying (in spite of the black eye and bruised gut from being kicked) the answer was always the same 'if i didnt see it, it didnt happen.' another problem stemed from the fact that i was technicaly a 'speciaal needs student' thats not to say i needed somthing extremly special i just needed more specific one on one work to get through everything. and where i was (small town, tiny student population) the staff was streached so thin they couldent provide it. i still dont understand it to this day but my grandma always told me that the reason i coudlent go to a school that had the capacity to provide these thigns for me was becasue it would hurt the superintendent's image if he had to allow a special needs student to transfer out of his school because he couldent provide the programs for dealing with it.

i'm nearly a grown man now at 23 years old (i guess some consider that adult but most i've spoken to consider it still young adult) and things still haunt me from my freshman year in high school (like being taunted physicaly so much i attempted to stab somone with a pen) and still flinch like an abused animal when somone raises thier voice or hand towards me. bullying in school to an extent is a part of life and learning to deal with conflict, but to the point where its allowed to run rampent to a point where physical injury is not a possibility but commonplace.

in this article the problem stemmed from somthing that could *TECHNICALY* have been changed more towards his favor (ie he could have stayed in the closet) however i dont feel that argument holds up at all. i'm sure you can figure out by reading through the horrible organization of my post what my dissability is related to and it wasent somthing i could stifle, it wasent somthing i could hide or make non apearant, its part of who i am and i realize that even standing wehre i am, i have no right or even inclination to say that he had the capacity to stifle who he was. or is, tense is a bit of a troubling subject.

i've done my best to organize this the first time through but if i havent done a well enough job to get a point across or to get most of my point across can somone point it out please?