Teen faces expulsion after brining stun-gun to school to fend off bullies

[Helmholtz Watson]

The kid brought a weapon to school. The instant someone does that, you absolutely have to expel the kid, no matter what the circumstances were. I'm not sure that there was a good option for the kid if the administration genuinely wasn't doing enough, but worst-case scenario, the stun gun could kill someone, and you only use something like that in a genuinely life-threatening situation, one that I doubt was really ever a possibility. If there was a real threat to the kid's life, he wouldn't have been going to school. At least he didn't actually use it on anyone, so he probably won't end up with a criminal record.

This^. I feel sympathy for the kid, but it doesn't change the fact that he brought a weapon to school. This time he might not kill somebody, but you never know if the next time if he will bring a gun to school.

except your also a criminal for not going to school. This country is a joke though, nothing but bigots and bullies. The school board would clearly have been happier to see the snot kicked out of this kid than to actually take any preventative action.

Again, the kid went to far when he brought a weapon to school. If were talking about last ditch efforts, the kid should have dressed differently because when deciding whether or not to bring a weapon to school or moderate how you dress, the latter is obviously the more reasonable choice.

 

[senordesol]

The kid brought a weapon to school. The instant someone does that, you absolutely have to expel the kid, no matter what the circumstances were. I'm not sure that there was a good option for the kid if the administration genuinely wasn't doing enough, but worst-case scenario, the stun gun could kill someone, and you only use something like that in a genuinely life-threatening situation, one that I doubt was really ever a possibility. If there was a real threat to the kid's life, he wouldn't have been going to school. At least he didn't actually use it on anyone, so he probably won't end up with a criminal record.

This^. I feel sympathy for the kid, but it doesn't change the fact that he brought a weapon to school. This time he might not kill somebody, but you never know if the next time if he will bring a gun to school.

except your also a criminal for not going to school. This country is a joke though, nothing but bigots and bullies. The school board would clearly have been happier to see the snot kicked out of this kid than to actually take any preventative action.

Again, the kid went to far when he brought a weapon to school. If were talking about last ditch efforts, the kid should have dressed differently because when deciding whether or not to bring a weapon to school or moderate how you dress, the latter is obviously the more reasonable choice.

Would dressing differently have truly changed anything? The cat was already 'out of the bag' as it were. Do you think the bullies were acting more like fashion police than bigots?

 

[Sandytimeman]

The kid brought a weapon to school. The instant someone does that, you absolutely have to expel the kid, no matter what the circumstances were. I'm not sure that there was a good option for the kid if the administration genuinely wasn't doing enough, but worst-case scenario, the stun gun could kill someone, and you only use something like that in a genuinely life-threatening situation, one that I doubt was really ever a possibility. If there was a real threat to the kid's life, he wouldn't have been going to school. At least he didn't actually use it on anyone, so he probably won't end up with a criminal record.

This^. I feel sympathy for the kid, but it doesn't change the fact that he brought a weapon to school. This time he might not kill somebody, but you never know if the next time if he will bring a gun to school.

except your also a criminal for not going to school. This country is a joke though, nothing but bigots and bullies. The school board would clearly have been happier to see the snot kicked out of this kid than to actually take any preventative action.

Again, the kid went to far when he brought a weapon to school. If were talking about last ditch efforts, the kid should have dressed differently because when deciding whether or not to bring a weapon to school or moderate how you dress, the latter is obviously the more reasonable choice.

Again his mom sent him to school with a generally non-lethal deterant. She was doing the best she could for her son. And believe me not "dressing homosexually" isn't going to stop people from bullying you once they have you targeted.

Personally the kid probably should keep that with him. Last kid in my area that was publicly known to be gay got beaten severely dragged to a field and tied to a barb wire fence to die of exposure. By two Christians no less. Source [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard]

And overall this just highlights why I haven't publicly come out, because again this country would rather encourage bullying and let kids get pushed to the physical and psychological extremes of lashing out instead of helping them.

 

[The Funslinger]

The kid brought a weapon to school. The instant someone does that, you absolutely have to expel the kid, no matter what the circumstances were. I'm not sure that there was a good option for the kid if the administration genuinely wasn't doing enough, but worst-case scenario, the stun gun could kill someone, and you only use something like that in a genuinely life-threatening situation, one that I doubt was really ever a possibility. If there was a real threat to the kid's life, he wouldn't have been going to school. At least he didn't actually use it on anyone, so he probably won't end up with a criminal record.

This^. I feel sympathy for the kid, but it doesn't change the fact that he brought a weapon to school. This time he might not kill somebody, but you never know if the next time if he will bring a gun to school.

Well, it's entirely the school's fault for letting it get that far. It's entirely possible they could have beaten him to death, crippled/permanently injured him or driven him to suicide (which he had remarked upon), and from a logical point of view, if someone's life has to be risked, I'm going to prefer it isn't the guy who's only defending himself. The school doesn't want weapons brought in, they should crack down on this harder. The mother is making it damn clear she only gave him the thing because it was the last ditch effort to ensure his safety.

If I were a parent and it got to that, I'd happily give my kid a stun gun.

I never said that the school couldn't have done more, but the kid is not justified in bringing a weapon to school. As I mentioned before, if a kid reads about this story and how the victim was right to bring a tazer, the next person might think their justified in bringing a gun to school.

I'm sorry, but just fuck slippery slope arguments. Nine times out of ten, they're complete bullshit. Anyone who would be willing to bring a gun into school would probably not need the provocation of a stun gun wielding victim to do so. And no, the mother giving her child a stun gun wouldn't escalate to giving him a knife or actual gun.

The fact is tasers and stun guns are designed as self defense weapons. Shame, I guess that a minority of people have heart conditions. I'm not saying "oh yay, he brought a stun gun into school", I'm saying you do have to make harsh decisions sometimes, and if the school wants to enforce a weapons free environment, they absolutely HAVE to make sure their school is an environment where people don't feel the need to have a weapon of some kind to guarantee their safety. I'm happy to call case by case basis here, the kid didn't jump to bringing a stun gun, this was in answer to a hugely long standing incident.

I agree that in general, bringing in weapons like this shouldn't be allowed, but I don't know if you've seen the damage that one can inflict on another with their bare hands. A lot more times than you might think, stuff does not heal the way it used to. This wasn't a fight that broke out, this was a premeditated cornering, with intent to inflict harm. Really, look up some homophobic assault stories, the end results tend to be gruesome. The kid did what he had to do to stave off violence. If it happened that one of those kids had a heart condition, well... sucks to be him. One more reason on top of the moral ones why he shouldn't go dicking with people.

I think in this individual situation, there wasn't much else to be done about it besides take a horrific beating, which nobody should expect him to stand for. He shouldn't be expelled because the school and the bullies forced his hand.

 

[hermes]

He brought a weapon to the school. I am sorry for his ordeal, but that hyperbolic response could have ended a lot worst than a sanction from the school.

 

[Dags90]

I never said that the school couldn't have done more, but the kid is not justified in bringing a weapon to school. As I mentioned before, if a kid reads about this story and how the victim was right to bring a tazer, the next person might think their justified in bringing a gun to school.

I think that's a bit of a stretch, I'm pretty sure high schoolers understand the difference between what police refer to as "less then lethal" force and guns. And it wasn't a taser, it was a stun gun. There's an important difference in both usability (projectile cartridges) and effect.

Frankly, you can play hypotheticals in any direction. If this isn't justified, then the next one might decide that his only reasonable escape is to preemptively kill his tormentors. It's a poor slippery slope argument. If they're stupid enough to not distinguish between bringing a stungun and a real gun, it seems all the more likely.

Off topic: I keep misreading this thread as "Teen face explosion".

 

[JasonKaotic]

Are you people serious? Fuck! The kid didn't even hurt anyone, he just zapped it while holding it in the air to scare them off because they were going to beat him up. If anything I'd say it's going soft on them. Schools do absolutely nothing to combat bullying, no matter how much they say they do, and when kids try to do anything about it themselves, this happens. It's fucking pathetic.

No, the kid shouldn't be expelled. In fact on behalf of everyone that's had to put up with that shit, he should be applauded. And even if he zapped them with it, bullies don't even deserve to be given the same rights as other human beings.

 

[Sandytimeman]

He brought a weapon to the school. I am sorry for his ordeal, but that hyperbolic response could have ended a lot worst than a sanction from the school.

And I wonder what the reply would have been had it turned into another Matthew Shepard incident. It isnt all that hard to kill someone with bare hands and a few well placed blows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

 

[Leadfinger]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say bringing a stun-gun to school was not the best way to handle the situation.

Of course not...

There are easier, much more effective ways of getting the Media's attention to deal with a homophobic school board.

I agree. The issue was the homophobic school board, but by bringing the stun-gun to school, the victim unfortunately made it a bringing a weapon to school issue.

 

[Sandytimeman]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say bringing a stun-gun to school was not the best way to handle the situation.

Of course not...

There are easier, much more effective ways of getting the Media's attention to deal with a homophobic school board.

I agree. The issue was the homophobic school board, but by bringing the stun-gun to school, the victim unfortunately made it a bringing a weapon to school issue.

If he had just balled up on the ground and was lucky enough to survive they could have totally blown that whole "homophobic school board" thing wide open!

Though if he woke up from the coma, or had use of his legs, or lived to actually crawl away from a 6 on 1 beating motivated by homophobia and hate then I'm sure it all could have been resolved peaceably.

That's sarcasm btw, everyone of those six kids should be punished in the harshest criminal manner.

 

[Leadfinger]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say bringing a stun-gun to school was not the best way to handle the situation.

Of course not...

There are easier, much more effective ways of getting the Media's attention to deal with a homophobic school board.

I agree. The issue was the homophobic school board, but by bringing the stun-gun to school, the victim unfortunately made it a bringing a weapon to school issue.

If he had just balled up on the ground and was lucky enough to survive they could have totally blown that whole "homophobic school board" thing wide open!

Though if he woke up from the coma, or had use of his legs, or lived to actually crawl away from a 6 on 1 beating motivated by homophobia and hate then I'm sure it all could have been resolved peaceably.

That's sarcasm btw, everyone of those six kids should be punished in the harshest criminal manner.

So you think bringing an illegal weapon to school was the best solution?

 

[Leadfinger]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say bringing a stun-gun to school was not the best way to handle the situation.

Obviously. The best way to handle the situation would have been to curl into a fetal ball, protect the head and kidneys, and hope that the 6 bullies get tired of kicking you before they cause a critical or fatal injury....

Those are the only two options you are able to perceive in this situation? How about pressing charges against the bullies? Or having your parents get a lawyer to sue the school board?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Would dressing differently have truly changed anything? The cat was already 'out of the bag' as it were. Do you think the bullies were acting more like fashion police than bigots?

Perhaps, because it was what the principle suggested.

Again his mom sent him to school with a generally non-lethal deterant. She was doing the best she could for her son. And believe me not "dressing homosexually" isn't going to stop people from bullying you once they have you targeted.

Personally the kid probably should keep that with him. Last kid in my area that was publicly known to be gay got beaten severely dragged to a field and tied to a barb wire fence to die of exposure. By two Christians no less. Source [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard]

And overall this just highlights why I haven't publicly come out, because again this country would rather encourage bullying and let kids get pushed to the physical and psychological extremes of lashing out instead of helping them.

Again, when you bring a weapon to school(I don't care if its lethal or not) you are no longer just the victim. As for letting the kid continue to bring a weapon to school in the future, you [http://www.smh.com.au/world/bullied-outcast-goes-on-school-shooting-rampage-20120228-1tzkg.html]...must [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57424914-504083/one-l-goh-accused-gunman-in-deadly-oikos-university-shooting-pleads-not-guilty/]...be [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida_Taser_incident]...joking [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/high-school-classmates-say-gunman-was-bullied/#.T6lgxNVlfIU].

 

[Nuke_em_05]

What did happen is he brought a weapon to school. Bringing a weapon to school is a serious violation. He is experiencing the consequences for that.

The long and short of that rule is that a weapon in the school is a potential danger to all students. Even if only brought for self-defense, it can still be used in "unrighteous" ways. What if it malfunctioned in his backpack? What if the student got really pissed at a teacher? What if the bullies got a hold on it? What if because the kid brought a stun gun, the bullies bring a bat, then the kid brings a knife, then the bullies bring a gun?

The pens and/or pencils found in the pockets and bookbags of every one of those students are FAR more deadly than a standard stun gun. It is designed to cause as little actual damage as possible, even with improper use, while one good stab with a pen can easily cause a fatal wound. You might as well outlaw plastic bags while you are at it if your definition of a weapon is that broad.

In addition, bullies already bring bats and other weapons of minor destruction, and a kid pissed enough to attack a teacher can and almost certainly will do so with or without a stun gun.

P.S. If a stun gun malfunctions in the kid's backpack, nothing happens. The tool must be held directly next to, or preferably actually touching, a living being to have any appreciable affect. The device's total power isn't even enough to get past the plastic casing in order to fry any calculators in the same pocket.

My definition of a weapon, which happens to generally coincide with most policy and legal definitions, is something which is specifically designed and intended to be used as such. Anything can be used as a "weapon", but a weapon (in my definition) can generally only be used as weapon.

People breaking the rules doesn't invalidate the rules for other people.

The point is simply that no matter the intent with which it was brought, a weapon on campus presents a potential danger to everyone on campus. Which is why they are not allowed.

I sympathize with the kid. I'm not saying he wasn't "justified", but "justified" or no, he broke the rules, and he needs to accept the consequences for that.

I can be completely "justified" in being late for work, it doesn't change the fact that I either have to work late or use leave to make up the time.

I can be completely "justified" in murdering the man who killed my father, it doesn't change the fact that I am a murderer.

Being "justified" in an action does not exempt one from the consequences of that action.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I never said that the school couldn't have done more, but the kid is not justified in bringing a weapon to school. As I mentioned before, if a kid reads about this story and how the victim was right to bring a tazer, the next person might think their justified in bringing a gun to school.

I think that's a bit of a stretch, I'm pretty sure high schoolers understand the difference between what police refer to as "less then lethal" force and guns. And it wasn't a taser, it was a stun gun. There's an important difference in both usability (projectile cartridges) and effect.

Frankly, you can play hypotheticals in any direction. If this isn't justified, then the next one might decide that his only reasonable escape is to preemptively kill his tormentors. It's a poor slippery slope argument. If they're stupid enough to not distinguish between bringing a stungun and a real gun, it seems all the more likely.

Off topic: I keep misreading this thread as "Teen face explosion".

I guess my concern is that the kid brought a weapon to school, which in my eyes crosses the line from victim to bully, because who's to say that the kid won't "accidentally" taze somebody who is giving him a hard time?

 

[Sandytimeman]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say bringing a stun-gun to school was not the best way to handle the situation.

Of course not...

There are easier, much more effective ways of getting the Media's attention to deal with a homophobic school board.

I agree. The issue was the homophobic school board, but by bringing the stun-gun to school, the victim unfortunately made it a bringing a weapon to school issue.

If he had just balled up on the ground and was lucky enough to survive they could have totally blown that whole "homophobic school board" thing wide open!

Though if he woke up from the coma, or had use of his legs, or lived to actually crawl away from a 6 on 1 beating motivated by homophobia and hate then I'm sure it all could have been resolved peaceably.

That's sarcasm btw, everyone of those six kids should be punished in the harshest criminal manner.

So you think bringing an illegal weapon to school was the best solution?

A stun gun is about as non-lethal as you can get. All weapons are forbidden on this school ground and the administrators were just willing to let the beatings happen. He had no choice but to defend himself.

 

[senordesol]

Would dressing differently have truly changed anything? The cat was already 'out of the bag' as it were. Do you think the bullies were acting more like fashion police than bigots?

Perhaps, because it was what the principle suggested.

The same Principal who has been doing oh-so-much to put a stop to this, of course.

EDIT: I forgot, the difference between a 'principal' and a 'principle' is that the 'prinipal' is your 'pal' [and has no principles].

 

[RaikuFA]

I just took a look, this kids black. He should've said the principal and the bullies called him the N word. That would've gotton people like Sharpton and Jackson coming down on this school and the bullies like a fat guy on a burger.

 

[hermes]

He brought a weapon to the school. I am sorry for his ordeal, but that hyperbolic response could have ended a lot worst than a sanction from the school.

And I wonder what the reply would have been had it turned into another Matthew Shepard incident. It isnt all that hard to kill someone with bare hands and a few well placed blows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

It isnt all that hard to kill someone in any way. Even by accident. And those violent situations tend to escalate rather quickly, as proven by this case. After he pulls a weapon, someone could easily have been killed (and I don't know how many people would go "they had it coming" or "its all the teachers fault" then)...

That is what I meant with "a lot worst". I am not in favor of all the "turn the other cheek" crap, but escalating the incident by pulling a weapon is not a solution either.

 

[SEXTON HALE]

This is bullshit on quite a few different levels.
Realy the rules about this sort of thing are way out of sync.
Good on the kid for taking the initative to not taser as many people as he could into the ground and scare them off instead.
He should get out of this easily enough though I cant be too sure really.