First off, you are more likely to be killed in a car accident as a civilian then get killed in the military. On average there are 3 million car accidents resulting in injury per year in the US, with approximately 2 million of those injury's being permanent, and 40,000 being fatal. Compare that to the 30,333 injured and 4094 dead in the war on terror total since 2003, thats not even close. However, family should always come first, and I would advise you to keep the job that pays better and keeps you close to your daughter. I just don't like the people who try to scare everyone into thinking that being in the military means you are almost certainly going to die or be maimed, because its just not true. I'm not saying the military is perfectly safe by any stretch of the imagination, I mean its a job in which someone can tell you at any time to go out and shoot at other people and get shot at in return, obviously not a safe job. However, civilian life isn't really safe either.
The Army (Specifically the Canadian Forces)
- Thread starter Niniux
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The primary trait soliders are trained for is not killer instinct, or tactical vision, or combat skill.
It is obedience.
The one thing a solder MUST be capable of is obeying orders without question and without hesitation.
By signing on as a soldier, you do not merely abandon your civil liberties. You abandon your freedom of will. You abandon your conscience. You abandon your humanity. From that day forward, your superior officers will make your choices for you. if you're fortunate and they're good commanders, they will make good choices for you, and in the end you will feel very proud of your service to your country. If not, you'll wind up telling your family, friends and therapist (and probably yourself) that you were "just obeying orders".
If you retain your conscience, if you actually think about whether or not your orders are morally acceptable, you will be considered a BAD SOLDIER, and you will be punished by your fellow soldiers and superior officers for it.
If you want to fight crime and injustice on a direct, personal level, join the RCMP or something. You'll still have to do things you don't like sometimes, but at least you'll have some chance of retaining your soul.
It is obedience.
The one thing a solder MUST be capable of is obeying orders without question and without hesitation.
By signing on as a soldier, you do not merely abandon your civil liberties. You abandon your freedom of will. You abandon your conscience. You abandon your humanity. From that day forward, your superior officers will make your choices for you. if you're fortunate and they're good commanders, they will make good choices for you, and in the end you will feel very proud of your service to your country. If not, you'll wind up telling your family, friends and therapist (and probably yourself) that you were "just obeying orders".
If you retain your conscience, if you actually think about whether or not your orders are morally acceptable, you will be considered a BAD SOLDIER, and you will be punished by your fellow soldiers and superior officers for it.
If you want to fight crime and injustice on a direct, personal level, join the RCMP or something. You'll still have to do things you don't like sometimes, but at least you'll have some chance of retaining your soul.
[This may turn into a general discourse on the military, be warned!]
[Second warning: before I am flamed by pacifists, while I am pro-military, I am anti-war. There is a difference.]
The military changes you, for better or for worse. I was only a cadet, but after my five years there I was a completely different person. I also came into contact with a lot of serving soldiers and they all said the same thing.
The thing with the forces in general is that people fall into two camps. If they can't take the lifestyle, they will fail early on, the rest will 99% of the time continue in the forces and not regret a single minute of it. For example, my old sergeant major joined what was then the Junior Leaders aged 14. He is now fifty, and has fought in every major conflict that the UK military has been involved in since the seventies. He has seen his friends dying around him, and still does not regret anything.
I personally would not join up full time. While I could probably take the lifestyle, I still have the niggling doubt that it is not for me. Were it 1940, I would, but circumstances were different. However, I would almost certainly join the TA (UK reserves) when I finish my degree.
[/general discourse]
My advice to you, Niniux, would be that if you do have a strong desire to join up is go and talk to a reserve recruiter. Chances are that your employer will allow you to if they are semi-reasonable. With a child on the way I would not join up full time, unless you feel very strongly compelled. You are making one of the greatest descisions of your life.
Let us know what you decide!
[Second warning: before I am flamed by pacifists, while I am pro-military, I am anti-war. There is a difference.]
The military changes you, for better or for worse. I was only a cadet, but after my five years there I was a completely different person. I also came into contact with a lot of serving soldiers and they all said the same thing.
The thing with the forces in general is that people fall into two camps. If they can't take the lifestyle, they will fail early on, the rest will 99% of the time continue in the forces and not regret a single minute of it. For example, my old sergeant major joined what was then the Junior Leaders aged 14. He is now fifty, and has fought in every major conflict that the UK military has been involved in since the seventies. He has seen his friends dying around him, and still does not regret anything.
I personally would not join up full time. While I could probably take the lifestyle, I still have the niggling doubt that it is not for me. Were it 1940, I would, but circumstances were different. However, I would almost certainly join the TA (UK reserves) when I finish my degree.
[/general discourse]
My advice to you, Niniux, would be that if you do have a strong desire to join up is go and talk to a reserve recruiter. Chances are that your employer will allow you to if they are semi-reasonable. With a child on the way I would not join up full time, unless you feel very strongly compelled. You are making one of the greatest descisions of your life.
Let us know what you decide!
Do you have a bachelor's degree (in anything)? I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but here in the states, if you have a degree, and decent leading abilities, you're be eligible for OTS (Officer Training School), and get can get commissioned as a Second Lieutenant (and get the officers benefits, and a better salary). Though OTS is very much a full time responsibility, so I'm not sure if you'd want to go that route with a kid on the way...
when some of us Yanks here about Canadians in WWII some of us scracht are heads "Whare were they unrocks then I splap my fellow Countryman and get them Learend and Infom them that the Canacs and Brits were all so in the D-day landings the u.s. just so hapend to get the shittest Place to land .PedroSteckecilo said:
Im British and so have this 'view' of the American Army, I know before i say this that it is probably completely wrong but, How come so many more of your guys have died compared to us (percentage not numbers before you think number of forces) and why do you keep killing our troops and news reporters?
Don't bann me i want to see peoples views, as i cannot understand it myself so i need to see before making a judgment.
Don't bann me i want to see peoples views, as i cannot understand it myself so i need to see before making a judgment.
actually kinda what he said but i'll add that if you go into the army with a kid on the way, the gf has a better chance of leaving you cause you're awayJohn Galt said:
My dad joined the military in the early 1980s, just after my sister was born. His recruiter convinced him to ignore his degree and go in as a grunt, and he spent the next few years moving between Missouri, Germany, and Korea. My mom and older sister followed him, but they weren't always in the same country at the same time, so my mom was alone with a two year old in a foreign nation with a language she didn't speak several times. He's never talked to me much about his life, but I think he really regrets his time in the army even though he never saw combat.
If you must get in, go for either air force or navy, and go for officer as soon as possible. With a child on the way I would say night school is a better deal (I don't know about Canada, bet here in America the GI bill covers maybe half of your education). For the sake of your child, don't leave your family.
If it's just about making a difference, why don't you try volunteering at a hospital? Or even better, switch to a medical field or something like that and save lives without being in a warzone.
If you must get in, go for either air force or navy, and go for officer as soon as possible. With a child on the way I would say night school is a better deal (I don't know about Canada, bet here in America the GI bill covers maybe half of your education). For the sake of your child, don't leave your family.
If it's just about making a difference, why don't you try volunteering at a hospital? Or even better, switch to a medical field or something like that and save lives without being in a warzone.
I myself was thinking of joining, but I'm thinking I won't now. I got over the concept of having a duty to my country a while ago, it would be a hell of a lot more efficient if we didn't exist and were instead part of a different country, and that's same as everyone else. Governments are two things, from my experience; tools for getting power, and a means of protecting all citizens by limiting some citizens. Either way, there's no reason for you to feel obligated to serve it, it's only doing what it's meant to do. In my case, it's doing something I don't want it to do, as I like my freedom. I would join the army if someone attacked us, but why bother when we're the one's meddling in other people's business?
That's what I think anyways.
That's what I think anyways.
Don't join. Four reasons:
-The chances of getting killed, crippled, or mentally distressed are too likely for a new father.
-The current war we're involved in is going nowhere, and our goals cannot be achieved through gunfire anyway.
-War is generally a *****.
-Stephen Harper.
I believe there are many things worth dying for, extremely few things worth killing for, and what Canada is doing now falls into neither category.
-The chances of getting killed, crippled, or mentally distressed are too likely for a new father.
-The current war we're involved in is going nowhere, and our goals cannot be achieved through gunfire anyway.
-War is generally a *****.
-Stephen Harper.
I believe there are many things worth dying for, extremely few things worth killing for, and what Canada is doing now falls into neither category.
you mean peace keeping isn't worth it? that's all canada is doing is trying to keep the peaceLarenxis said:
canada doesn't really go to war that often, when we do it's for the right reason, that's why we never went into iraq the second time, there was no proof and everyone blamed Cretien for it and low and behold he was right
uh, he might be talking about the accident involving a US army bombing operation in Afghanistan that caused a few casualties among the Canadian Armed forces.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/09/04/afghanfriendly.html
I believe this is the correct story.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/09/04/afghanfriendly.html
I believe this is the correct story.
As a soldier currently deployed(US Army), I have this to say to a few things I've read;
If you want to join the armed forces, that's your call; however, anyone who says soldiers are trained to kill is correct... only the emphasis they place on it makes it sound like we're a bunch of child murdering sociopaths, and I'm not a big fan of that classification. I also notice people are talking about the rights and wrongs of this war, and I couldn't give a damn what is right and what is wrong when there are people over here fighting to protect me; I joined up to help them, regardless of any political affiliations.
Would I recommend joining the military? That's a case by case thing. A baby on the way and a pay cut? Financially speaking, it's not the best move; but the chance to safeguard the world your baby daughter is coming into is a liberating feeling... I feel good knowing that I'm doing my part to serve my country, like my father before me. After this war is over, whatever happens, I know I'll have done something besides complain and watch people die in my name.
As for the comment by the british soldier, I can only surmise that more americans have died because Americans have committed so many more soldiers to the war, running more ops, and a mix up on the part of british and american commanders speaking gets people killed. All in all, it's good to have you guys over here; we love you guys
If you want to join the armed forces, that's your call; however, anyone who says soldiers are trained to kill is correct... only the emphasis they place on it makes it sound like we're a bunch of child murdering sociopaths, and I'm not a big fan of that classification. I also notice people are talking about the rights and wrongs of this war, and I couldn't give a damn what is right and what is wrong when there are people over here fighting to protect me; I joined up to help them, regardless of any political affiliations.
Would I recommend joining the military? That's a case by case thing. A baby on the way and a pay cut? Financially speaking, it's not the best move; but the chance to safeguard the world your baby daughter is coming into is a liberating feeling... I feel good knowing that I'm doing my part to serve my country, like my father before me. After this war is over, whatever happens, I know I'll have done something besides complain and watch people die in my name.
As for the comment by the british soldier, I can only surmise that more americans have died because Americans have committed so many more soldiers to the war, running more ops, and a mix up on the part of british and american commanders speaking gets people killed. All in all, it's good to have you guys over here; we love you guys
If you're talking about Iraq its because Basra is a much more stable part of the country than Baghdad or Al-Anbar, which is where the American forces are.Alotak said:
Same thing goes for Afghanistan as well, the most US troops are posted around the main mountain passes between Afghanistan and Pakistan, hence where all the fighters come into the country from.
It's not just yours. It's also US-trained Iraqi forces and even our own troops (look up Pat Tillman, for one). Friendly fire is a very unfortunate risk in modern wars, even with current-day communication and tracking devices.Alotak said:
As to why more US troops are seeing casualties than the UK's: More troops in the area (US: 147,000; UK: 4,000) and more common deployment into hostile areas.