The Avengers and Hawkeye [Mass Opinion Centered]

[JediMB]

He's probably even made of tougher stuff in general, considering his arms didn't shatter when Thor smacked his shield

That was the vibranium shield, actually. It took the force of Thor's strike and dispersed it. Hence the shockwave.

Eh? I thought his shield was made out of adamantium, the same stuff Wolverine's claws and bone-armor is made out of.

Depending on the continuity, the shield tends to be made out of either vibranium or a vibranium-adamantium alloy. The movie continuity doesn't have adamantium, since that primarily belongs to the X-Men brand (which is licensed to Fox).

EDIT: Okay, apparently the information regarding the shield sometimes being made a vibranium-adamantium alloy is false. It is normally made from vibranium (and steel), but at one point Rogers went under the identity of "The Captain" and had an adamantium shield. Also, Ultimate Cap has an adamantium shield, but I'm fairly certain he compensates by simply being stronger on that continuity.

 

[370999]

Gods and mech-suits are okay, but preternaturally good archery blows people's suspension of disbelief?

I'm just going to respond to this as this type of statement always get said about these type of things (I've done it).

Nobody expects a movie to be entirely consistent with our universe. We do expect there to be justifications given for why super things happen however. Thor being able to fly and shoot lightning is easily reconciled with him being a Norse god. Similarly Iron Man and powered armour. However Hawkeye never gets this, we are just told that he is really good at archery. That's fine and all but he is super-humanly good at archery. This is the problem for me as I would say I am most of the audience have a reasonable vision of what a human can do and can notice where things are physically impossible compared to my understanding of what a gamma irradiated Hulk monster could do.

Same goes for Black Widow.

All in all I don't really care as I've read comics for a while but it is a problem.

 

[Laughing Man]

You could remove him from the film entirely and it wouldn't change in the slightest.

Did you watch the movie at all? His role or his main purpose was NOT as a one of the good guys, by the time he rejoined the good guys he was in the shell shocked support role or pull off an uber saviour move to make up for his wrong doings role.

Hawkeye's main role was as Loki's agent. He was at least a highly trusted agent within Shield which gave him access to knowledge about the organization that was very key to assisting Loki in obtaining the people, facilities and materials needed to build the portal.

 

[rayen020]

Also, that bit where..
<spoiler=SPOILERS. Well, not plot details, but it's so badass you REALLY should keep it a surprise> ..He shoots down one of those attack platform things without even looking.
Your move, Legolas.[/spoiler]

THIS. So this. Also i want you to shoot a USB stick into a computer. oh, and anyone else notice he's basically the lookout in the final battle, giving tactical instructions to the rest of the team? I think even in the comics hes like the failsafe for the rest of the team because he can take out anyone.

Also if anymore evidence is needed. Look at how big and full his quiver is at the beginning of the final battle. He runs out of arrows and it's a safe bet he didn't miss. Whats that bring his kill count to? also he only just lost to black widow in close combat and took on three enemies and killed them all before jumping off a building.

I'm a hawkeye fanboy.

Also no one think of Captain America as stupid. He's just missed 60 odd years tech development. He's actually very intelligent, it was part of the super-soldier serum. Those shield throws? they aren't random, he's smart enough and in control enough to calculate the ricochets. And he can learn and read very quickly.

 

[Exocet]

I precisely thought Black Widow, Cap America and Hawkeye felt underpowered in the movie.
First, Black Widow is just an Olympic gymnast with guns, Hawkeye is an intelligent, 100% accurate archer, but that jsut sound lackluster, and Cap America's only decisive strength comes from a magic shield that he throws away half the time.

You may argue that despite not having as much as Thor, Iron Man and Hulk, they still kick ass, which is true, but look at it this way, while the lamer three are stuck on the ground, having a hard time killing a handful of dudes, the badass three are flying/hopping/slinging around killing bad guys by the truck load.

Cap America's scene in repairing the carrier? He struggles to fight of two humans, and during the final battle, he's fighting off 2 bad guys to stop them from blowing up civilians. Meanwhile, Iron Man takes the same amount of time to repair a gigantic carrier engine that was blown up, and later, killing a flying dragon in mere seconds.

So while they may be badass in terms of heroics, compared to the rest of the Avengers, they feel like a break in the action, a pause in between Iron Man iron-man'ing shit up, and Thor kicking Asgaard-worthy amounts of ass.


I for one, want to see the Hulk wearing an Iron Man suit, complete with Cap's shield, and shooting Thor's hammer with a bow.

 

[malestrithe]

In the meantime: Spiderman isn't even included in the movie.
Hell, I'd even accept it if they used Ant man.

Are we still raging about no spider-man in a movie about a team that historically never featured spider-man? *Sigh*

I could also list quite a few heroes that should be in an Avengers movie before Spider-man.

Spider-man has been a member since the 80's. He does not get associated with them because he only does the team thing on the big stuff, like when Earth is invaded again.

Don't get me wrong. He should not be in an Avengers movie period. There are better choices than him.

 

[Aurgelmir]

In the meantime: Spiderman isn't even included in the movie.
Hell, I'd even accept it if they used Ant man.

Are we still raging about no spider-man in a movie about a team that historically never featured spider-man? *Sigh*

I could also list quite a few heroes that should be in an Avengers movie before Spider-man.

Spider-man has been a member since the 80's. He does not get associated with them because he only does the team thing on the big stuff, like when Earth is invaded again.

Don't get me wrong. He should not be in an Avengers movie period. There are better choices than him.

Yeah, true... but he himself point put in new Avengers that he has turned down membership a lot of times, "and when he finally joins they no longer get paid"
So I still say that he wasn't an official member until New Avengers.

Oh I realized:
Hank pym needs to get his ass into the avengers, so that he can make Ultron... that can make Vision (who is a VERY important team member imo)

 

[malestrithe]

Yeah, true... but he himself point put in new Avengers that he has turned down membership a lot of times, "and when he finally joins they no longer get paid"
So I still say that he wasn't an official member until New Avengers.

Oh I realized:
Hank pym needs to get his ass into the avengers, so that he can make Ultron... that can make Vision (who is a VERY important team member imo)

Fair enough.

Personally, I think they should not rush into another Avengers movie just yet. They can do a lot of things with the people they still have access to. Make a Heroes for Hire series with Iron Fist and Powerman, and maybe put in Scott Lang as a member. Pym was also known as Yellow jacket for a time, so you can have both Ant man and Yellow Jacket in the movie universe. Mrs Marvel is good as well. Cloak and Dagger have always been a personal favorite of mine, but probably not well known enough to carry an entire movie.

If they should build up to something else, it should be a SWORD or a Guardians of the Galaxy movie.

 

[Aurgelmir]

Yeah, true... but he himself point put in new Avengers that he has turned down membership a lot of times, "and when he finally joins they no longer get paid"
So I still say that he wasn't an official member until New Avengers.

Oh I realized:
Hank pym needs to get his ass into the avengers, so that he can make Ultron... that can make Vision (who is a VERY important team member imo)

Fair enough.

Personally, I think they should not rush into another Avengers movie just yet. They can do a lot of things with the people they still have access to. Make a Heroes for Hire series with Iron Fist and Powerman, and maybe put in Scott Lang as a member. Pym was also known as Yellow jacket for a time, so you can have both Ant man and Yellow Jacket in the movie universe. Mrs Marvel is good as well. Cloak and Dagger have always been a personal favorite of mine, but probably not well known enough to carry an entire movie.

If they should build up to something else, it should be a SWORD or a Guardians of the Galaxy movie.

HUGE Ms.Marvel fan so YES PLEASE!

also HUGE fan of the modern Guardians of the Galaxy. What can go wrong in a movie with a telepathic Russian cosmonaught Dog, a talking gun-toting raccoon and a Giant Tree in it?

PS: I'd prefer Pym as Giantman actually, would be cool to have one big and one small guy.

 

[Callate]

The Marvel books- and the movies, perhaps to an even greater extent in some regards- make the point that it's the whole of the person who is valuable or detrimental, not merely their powers. Thor is useless in an interrogation. The Hulk is nearly as likely to break his friends' stuff as his enemies. Iron Man without his suit may be a genius inventor billionaire playboy philanthropist, but he's also a man with a crippled heart and little to offer in a physical stand-off if he isn't in his armor.

I rather like how they present Hawkeye. And I would note that, if Marvel's own info is to be believed, Black Widow is more dangerous in hand-to-hand combat than Wolverine.

 

[malestrithe]

I rather like how they present Hawkeye. And I would note that, if Marvel's own info is to be believed, Black Widow is more dangerous in hand-to-hand combat than Wolverine.

Ever noticed how the deadlier characters tend to be way older than they look? The four deadliest combatants in Marvel are pushing 100 and some are even older. Wolverine is almost 200 and actually fought with Captain America in WWII. Winter Soldier is 85 but looks mid to late 20s. Black Widow, who the comics made very clear is kept alive with same anti aging stuff that Fury has, is early 80s, but looks 28. Marvel is weird in that regard. They acknowledge their characters have been around forever and come up with elaborate and convoluted ways to explain it.

 

[BabySinclair]

That's weird. Everywhere I go, Hawkeye is just lauded as a total BAMF, and people don't seem to care that Black Widow is "under-powered" considering everything else she has going for her.

I thought Black Widow's ass was her superpower...

As for Hawkeye being more useful with a gun, bullets are harder to customize than arrowheads. Every bullet for a gun needs to fit in the same sized barrel, arrowheads can be as big or small as you like depending on their function. Arrows are also useful to stab people with need be and silence helps when you're on an open rooftop with enemies swarming in order to avoid detection. Give him a gun and he would get swarmed rather quickly.

 

[malestrithe]

HUGE Ms.Marvel fan so YES PLEASE!

also HUGE fan of the modern Guardians of the Galaxy. What can go wrong in a movie with a telepathic Russian cosmonaught Dog, a talking gun-toting raccoon and a Giant Tree in it?

PS: I'd prefer Pym as Giantman actually, would be cool to have one big and one small guy.

Yeah. How much of the continuity do you want to preserve? In the very early adventures, Rocket was from the militant raccoon-centric nation who waged war with other anthropomorphic kingdoms to basically enslave them for serve for the glorious raccoon race. Essentially, he was a Nazi-esque raccoon supremacist, which is admittedly awesome in and of itself.

I was a genuinely funny moment in the most recent Avengers episode entitled Michael Korvac. The Avengers were staring down Starlord, Quasar, Adam Warlock, Groot, and Rocket Raccoon in a classic Mexican Standoff. After a minute, Hawkeye said, "Tony. There's a raccoon and a tree scowling at us. Do I take the shot?"

 

[AngloDoom]

-Snippedy-

I dislike Hawkeye because he was the least characterised, had no personality, and the moment he ran out of arrows he became useless...which wouldn't be so bad if he thought to bring more than a single quiver of arrows to take to a full-scale planetary invasion. Then that whole thing where he shoots a moving target behind him without looking, which was supposed to be cool but just came across as trying to make Hawkeye by basically giving him superpowers.

I cannot think of why Hawkeye wanted to be part of the Avengers and I don't even remember if he spoke to another of the team. He was just really forgettable.

Similar complaints with Black Widow, of course, except she had a good moment when she interrogated Loki by extorting his pride and her perceived weakness due to being a woman.

Captcha: nul points.

Oh =(

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Black Widow has nothing but "Lolboobs" everywhere I go and Hawkeye is called lame for using a bow.

What? I'm confused. Her costume here barely showed any cleavage. Her ass, however, was in the camera's focus more often than her face. The scene with her and Loki when he's in the cell, they have a shot where her knees to her back are in shot with a full Loki in the background--and he's blurry, while her bottom is in perfect focus. I want to laugh about this, but I just find it sad.

As to Hawkeye--dude was bamf. A master assassin with all kinds of fun tricks and toys, expert gymnast trained by criminals hiding in the circus. Just a fun guy to have hanging around.

 

[Deviluk]

Having not seen the movie yet (though I probably will this weekend), I would say that you're right when basing you opinions on not only the movie (that I haven't seen yet) and other sources (comic books). I would like to say though, I don't think that casting Jeremy Renner was exactly the right move for Hawkeye. My initial reaction (again, having not seen the movie) is that he doesn't fit the character. He's a great actor for sure but I'm not sure if he was a great choice for the part. I'll have to see that when I see it.

How come he doesn't fit? Whats he like in the comics?

And nice avatar, I love Rosario Vampire!

 

[Krion_Vark]

Not to mention, did you see him miss a shot during that last battle? The guy is smart as all fuck, too. He knew Loki would catch his arrow, so he shoots and explosive arrow to him and blows it in his face. Really, the mere thought of stating this guy is lame baffles. Even in Comparison to the other Avengers.

He was also using those same arrow heads the entire time at the vehicles to make them blow up. So him being smart as all fuck remains to be seen.
He aimed at Loki while he was not looking. Aiming FOR HIS EYE which he had said he wanted to put an arrow into earlier. Since Loki was a God/Demi-God he used the explosive arrow to try and kill him from blowing his head to pieces.

The thing that people don't seem to get though is that not everyone in the Marvel Universe that is a super hero has a super power. I mean A LOT of them have a super power BUT the marvel universe doesn't solely rely on super powers they have mysticism in the universe for a reason. Hawkeye was trained to be deadly accurate with a bow that is not being super powered

 

[Krion_Vark]

Dude, the only problem with hawkeye was he was barely in it and evil for most of the film. Aside from that, woot go hawkeye etc.

Well considering his first few appearances he FOUGHT the avengers in the comics I would say him going evil was a good point in the movie.