The Big Picture: Combat Evolved?

[gl1koz3]

Come to think of it, Bungie indeed played on human's fear of diversity... on humans fascist nature. Not the first time someone takes advantage of it.

 

[gigastar]

The way i see it is that while ZP is for punching at individual games, Big Picture is for punching at almost anything. As said in the video, as it happens. Also mentioned in the video his first rant was about Halo because he wanted it to draw attention, and seeing that ive just posted on the 20th page of this thread, mission accomplished.

While I never really liked Halo for anything it did, at all, ever, I never really had a justifiable reason for it, until i watched this video which pointed out what I only gave a passing thought to at first. Good going Bob, cant wait for the next one.

 

[chris11246]

snip

and that is why I never trust anybody who says they find symbolism in anything. I only trust what the author says. Symbolism is too subjective and can easily be skewed to your viewpoint. If you're looking for something you'll find it somewhere. I wish I could find the post that someone posted on here before analyzing the symbolism in Snakes on a Plane, it went into a lot of detail on how its about the eternal struggle of Adam and Eve verses sin and technology. It shows why I dont trust symbolism.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

If you ever wanted to know what "reading too much in to something" is - watch this clip

And 'yes' that is really all I'm going to say on this clip. I could start my arguments on how the aliens were obviously created diverse as they were the enemy and you see them on screen more than any other thing and that the Spartans were created so uniformly because of memory constraints in the original game, or that you could take any other game (book or movie for that fact) and create a similar theory about those too - but I'm not even going to bother.

 

[Latinidiot]

Bah, bullshit I say.

Can it not just be a gameplay mechanic? Big burly dudes are hard to kill, Little guys practically explode when you sneeze, and the rest is somewhere in between?

 

[The Journey]

Reach has been the best Halo game to date ... plot wise.

This is about where I realized you have no idea what you're talking about.

Wonderful. I have played all of the Halo games to date and I understand most of the back story, and it's derivative. The reason Reach is the best game plot wise to date is that it has some actual characters in it. Some people for you to relate to or be interested in, something to draw in the observer and make them give a crap. No it doesn't do it well, but it tries for the first time in a Halo game, ever. I mean really tries.

Do I have a word for word knowledge of the entire Halo universe? No, and I don't need to in order to form my opinion on it, and this is it.

 

[Slimshad]

I liked it, except for the solemness of it all. Drop the faces, they don't add ANYTHING to it. Change the back round color to something a little more bright, and have a slightly better M.O. for your characters, so it is instantly recognizable as your show (ala white stick figures on yellow back round). Please do this, it will make your show a lot better in times to come.

 

[8bitmaster]

I liked it. It was insightful, just not as insightful as extra credits, and it filled my video gap from Monday and Wednesday. Keep up the work movie bob.

 

[t3hmaniac]

Personally, I think you're looking at this too deeply. I know you have the name "game over-thinker" but the whole diversity may not be for any underlying tones of hate of mixture, rather than a method of convieniently identifying "which alien will kill me faster." Similar to TF2s character designed where a quick silouette glance can tell you all you need to know about what's attacking you and how, having a diverse set of enemies is a good way to streamline threat assessment, which can be the difference between mission complete and 30 minutes of time wasted going nowhere.

It's not just in FPS, Mario's enemies are a very diverse bunch and that helps you decide what to do (if it requires a method other than jump on it) and how they will try to mercilicley rob you of all the fauna you collected (fire flowers). RTS series often feature various infantry types so you know who to use to shoot down the big "screw you" zepplin hastely aproaching your construction yard. RPG games have vastly different human enemies so you can again: decide who to target first.

It does tend to make the villains more interesting than the heroes from a visual standpoint but hey, what can you do?

 

[Dr. Dan Challis]

If you're going to cling to this interpretation of the Halo story and follow it to it's logical conclusion then it absolutely bears mentioning that Halo 3, the installment in which the UNSC is finally victorious, finds the humans joining forces with the Elites. Ultimately, humanity is only able to achieve victory when it puts aside its prejudices and sacrifices some of its cultural "purity" in favor of diversity and cooperation.

And that's racist...how?

 

[DutchAssassin8]

Fantastic show and nice style.

Furthermore i feel that i should point out that the Covenant tried to perform genocide on human-kind because "they were weak and not worthy". Just saying. He does have a point though...

 

[InvisibleMan]

Dastardly describes beautifully what I was about to say...

While I was intrigued by Movie Bob's analysis, it was definitely a symptom of over-analysis. If you played the original Halo, you will see how the story was a lot simpler and humorous. Bungie didn't take the Halo storyline seriously until the second game, and only because they saw how popular the first game became.

It is like when people go into deep thought trying to figure out why Nintendo made Mario a plumber with a mustache, and forget that back in the 80s it was the only way to make the character look like it had a nose and clothing given the limited number of pixels available. Or when people ramble about how the technology of the beam transport in Star Trek came about, and forget that it was simply a TV show budget solution so as not to have a shot of a space ship landing every time the cast had to land on an alien planet.

"Sometimes a pipe is just a pipe."

 

[CloakedOne]

an excellent first video. I enjoy bob's work about his movies that he observes so intelligently (it's all in middle style, but it's still very solid rhetoric regarding its points) and I'm excited he has a new show out that addresses a larger range of things. I can't wait to see what else is to come of this.

 

[sir.rutthed]

Ya, I think most people here have it at least partially right. I've played all the Halo games, but I can see what might lead Bob to concluding what he did if he's only ever played Halo CE and Reach. I'll keep watching the show, and I usually like what Bob has to say (I'm a fan of his GameOverthinker series as well) but I hope next time he sticks to a franchise/genre he's more familiar with. He does raise some valid points about the franchise, but I think he takes it a bit to the extreme.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

THE MAIN POINT OF HALO IS NOT MONOCULTURE VS. MULTICULTURE, IT IS A POINT ABOUT BLINDLY FOLLOWING RELIGION TO THE POINT OF SELF DESTRUCTION.
RELIGION. RELIGION. RELIGION. RELIGION. RELIGION. RELIGION. RELIGION.

Seriously, I'm not a huge Halo fan, largely because I don't like the gameplay style of bunny hopping around and BXR'ing people with perfect four-shots. It's simply a test of thumb dexterity requiring very minimal strategy or stealth. Even the active-camo in reach announces your presence by messing up the radar.

My point is that anyone who has played Halo 2 and 3 will know that the entire series is a staunch criticism of religious fanaticism. The 'Great Journey' that the covenant wants to start is actually the activation of an ancient super-weapon that will wipe out all life in the galaxy, but they're too fanatical to realize this.

As far as the fascism goes... The Covenant are supposed to be vastly superior to the humans and are bent on wiping them out. OF COURSE THE HUMANS ARE GOING TO BE FASCISTS! THEY HAVE TO DO SO IN ORDER TO SURVIVE! ARE YOU REALLY TELLING ME THAT YOU WOULD RATHER BE MULTICULTURAL AND PACIFIST TO THE END WHEN SOMEONE IS TRYING TO GENOCIDE YOU?! THAT'S LIBERALISM TO THE POINT OF RAMPANT STUPIDITY!

There is no place for discussion or democracy in warfare, if you do not follow orders strictly then you will die. When the entire human race is embroiled in a fight to survive it would NECESSARILY become fascist.

Also the spartan program is not the highest ambition of human children, it is a clandestine program that had huge moral outcries against it. Once again, a completely false characterization.

One more thing... If Halo was so anit-multiculturalism, then why did Sgt. Johnson/Master Chief and the Arbiter become friends and fight alongside one another? I took that as a CLEAR message of multiculturalism; of two very different people coming together to fight for a common purpose.

Halo 2 and 3 COMPLETELY DISPROVE ALL OF MOVIE BOB'S ACCUSATIONS! NEXT TIME, IF YOU ARE GOING TO CRITICIZE SOMETHING'S EXTENDED UNIVERSE, MAYBE YOU SHOULD FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH SAID EXTENDED UNIVERSE!

 

[UnbakedParrot]

I felt that I had to create an account just to comment on this poor excuse for a rant.

I had some respect for Bob, but whatever I had left flew out the window after watching this video through to the end.

First: Have you read the Halo novels? I would suggest you tackle those before ranting about the franchise. The Spartans are much, much more than just mindless tools of fascism. Even after they're transformed into Spartans, they still carry just as much emotion. It's just that they set it aside to be selfless in aiding the cause of protecting what's left of the flickering hope of the human race in a struggle against a looming threat.

Second: I don't know if it's just your "style", but pinpointing a small portion of a franchise because it's the only thing you could find to legitimately argue about doesn't quite make it a "review" of "the big picture". That was a commercial, for starters, and the blue eyes don't signify a superiority of race. If you had any inclination to read the books, as I said before, you would understand the significance of why the eyes change color.

Third: I understand that, unfortunately, most of the Halo demographic purchase the games purely for the enjoyment of Matchmaking. However, there are those of us who have followed the story from the beginning. And it deserves better than an off-the-cuff, half-assed comparison to Starship Troopers.

I'm disappointed Bob. Disappointed. Is the Halo franchise perfect? No. But at least give it a decent review, not just a narrow-minded approach based off of very limited and shaky background of understanding.

 

[lacklusterog]

This was terrible. I don't think Bob gets the story of Halo.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

I felt that I had to create an account just to comment on this poor excuse for a rant.

I had some respect for Bob, but whatever I had left flew out the window after watching this video through to the end.

First: Have you read the Halo novels? I would suggest you tackle those before ranting about the franchise. The Spartans are much, much more than just mindless tools of fascism. Even after they're transformed into Spartans, they still carry just as much emotion. It's just that they set it aside to be selfless in aiding the cause of protecting what's left of the flickering hope of the human race in a struggle against a looming threat.

Second: I don't know if it's just your "style", but pinpointing a small portion of a franchise because it's the only thing you could find to legitimately argue about doesn't quite make it a "review" of "the big picture". That was a commercial, for starters, and the blue eyes don't signify a superiority of race. If you had any inclination to read the books, as I said before, you would understand the significance of why the eyes change color.

Third: I understand that, unfortunately, most of the Halo demographic purchase the games purely for the enjoyment of Matchmaking. However, there are those of us who have followed the story from the beginning. And it deserves better than an off-the-cuff, half-assed comparison to Starship Troopers.

I'm disappointed Bob. Disappointed. Is the Halo franchise perfect? No. But at least give it a decent review, not just a narrow-minded approach based off of very limited and shaky background of understanding.

Agreed. See my post above. Halo 2 and 3 had huge multicultural overtones with the Arbiter, so you don't even need to refer to the books in order to show how wrong he is.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

Reach has been the best Halo game to date ... plot wise.

This is about where I realized you have no idea what you're talking about.

Wonderful. I have played all of the Halo games to date and I understand most of the back story, and it's derivative. The reason Reach is the best game plot wise to date is that it has some actual characters in it. Some people for you to relate to or be interested in, something to draw in the observer and make them give a crap. No it doesn't do it well, but it tries for the first time in a Halo game, ever. I mean really tries.

Do I have a word for word knowledge of the entire Halo universe? No, and I don't need to in order to form my opinion on it, and this is it.

I'm no Halo fanboy; I tried reading one of the books but got bored and realized I had a couple thousand better things to to, but what I'm saying has nothing to do with the extended universe.

Think back to when you first played Halo: CE.

Think about the awe of seeing the Pillar of Autumn for the first time, and the intensity of running through it without a gun. Then, seeing the captain for the first time, and joking around with Cortana as if the player had any idea who the fuck she was back then. Remember the feeling of utter isolation when you crash landed and everyone died. Think about how obviously one sided the fight was back then.

Now fast forward a little.

You've found a good amount of survivors and they've just dropped you off in the middle of a seemingly endless swamp to find a weapons cache (or something. I dunno.). You eventually find a structure, and when you get to the bottom, the music alone makes a tiny amount of poo soil your undies. You open the door, find only bodies, and watch a digital flashback from some eye thingy, and BAM... the next 10 to 20 mins of the game has you changing underwear every five minutes.

The themes portrayed in Combat Evolved and the awesome presentation of them are what makes it, indubitably, the best Halo game plot-wise. Sure, pretty much EVERY gameplay mechanic in Reach is better, but by that time the ENTIRE STORY is all old news. Regardless of designer intent, the levels all feel 100% linear; not to mention every single level made me think of its Halo: CE counterpart (I mean, come on... why does every sniper level have to be exactly like Truth and Reconciliation?).

Every single other Halo game with Flood wasn't scary at all, and they tried damn hard. Cortana was turned from a witty, genius sidekick into this extremely serious love interest (which, although done quite tastefully, doesn't exactly fit into Halo.). FFS the MAIN BAD GUYS in Halo 1 become your friends?!?!

No... everything Halo 2 did RUINED any decency in Halo's plot for any future games (even prequels) and also proved that they really just wanted to make an incredible multiplayer game (which, regardless of what anyone says, they succeeded in doing.).

 

[Bruden]

They released the flood by accident. Morally it's irrelevant. Doesn't affect the view of humanity either way.

Letting them out, I'll let you have that one being irrelevant. It's still on rather shaky ground, ignorance is not the best excuse for galactic scale genocide. But you can not argue that blowing up the one thing that puts them back in the box is morally irrelevant.

I'm not 100% sure what the purpose of the rings is. Either it kills all life, or it kills all life save the Flood. If the former, it's stupid to use. If the latter, it's super stupid to use (or even build in the first place). Destroying the ring is the only viable option. And if suicide has anything to do with morality than in terms of morality destroying the ring was the right choice.

Destroying the ring is the only viable option for self preservation, true. It also lets the flood run wild across the galaxy causing every sentient race to die a slow fear filled death, which is in actuality far worse than just killing them in a quick manner. Yes, it's worse morally too, they're both BAD but torturing someone for years before you kill them is worse than just killing them.

By the end of the second game it's been made clear that Earth is the only remaining human population center.

That's never stated in the game so far as I can remember. Earth is important, obviously, but only remaining colony/population centre? Nope.

you're right, they never say "if we loose earth humanity is extinct." They do make some insignificant little quips about what's in orbit being humanity's last line of defense, and a few trivial little things about the covenant wiping out every human world they find. So you're right the games don't specifically spell it out, just surround the hints in giant
blinking neon lights, which the books proceed to fill in in bold.

The books are irrelevant.
As for the games, that is, the only things that matter, of course losing Earth is a big deal. And of course protecting earth is also a big deal. But the fall of Reach basically directly preceeds the fall of Earth. Are you telling me that the Covenant hit every insigificant piss ant colony before they hit Reach? Of course not. When waging a war you don't sweep through the outer worlds in their entirety you go right for the throat as soon as you can. Logically there are other colonies. But without Earth, they would also fall in time. Hence why it all depends on Earth.

Hey the games make that clear too. There's the whatever the name was protocol, they jump randomly to avoid giving away where earth is, it's why Cortana wipes the drive data from the ships computer at the start of the first game, and is why the ship jumps randomly and discovers the halo rather than just retreating back to earth. And they do mention the wiping out of other colonies. So yes, the Covenant is systematically wiping out every outlying colony, because they have the resources to do it, and because they can't figure out where the Human home world is.

Unsupported conjecture.
Did you see a stream of evacuation ships at the end of Halo 3?
Do you know what effect the energy beams from Covenant carriers have on a planet's habitability? From the GAMES that is. Not the novels.

From the game's themselves, the covenant use plasma weapons, and the energy of their beams are hot enough to cause dirt to turn to glass. If super-heating an entire continent in a single go doesn't spell global disaster nothing does. The end of Halo 3 is not filled with a dying Earth and humanity scrambling to evacuate because it's supposed to be a happy ending.

So what you're telling me is that you're right and the game is wrong?
Yeah, try again.

yes actually I am. Halo 3's ending is a hand waved happy ending that doesn't pay any attention to the plot that came before it. It happens a lot in science fiction. (see Star Wars)

Covenant regularly kill unarmed civilians in the games. This is generally considered bad. They use suicide bombers and have little regard for their own troops, again this is bad. They take no prisoners, except those important to the plot. They lie and subvert the truth to their own people, etcetera, and so on. Hell every covenant we see is a soldier. Are there no technicians on spaceships? No one unarmed for the Spartans to kill? Even the guys in wheel chairs have big laser cannons. When does humanity get a chance to be bad?

Suicide bombers, or sending your soldiers on a suicide mission it's the same thing just one gets less firepower. The humans also take no prisoners even though the grunts often scream and try to run away, heck sometimes the player doesn't even get to kill the retreating grunts because an npc soldiers steps up to shoot them in the back.

Nothing wrong with that. The grunts are running away, also known as "retreating" or more importantly "regrouping". At no time does any NPC alien try to surrender.

Please replay some Halo, at several points just before the sound of your rifle smacking them in the face you will hear the grunts yell "I surrender!"

Lie and subvert their own people, read every politician ever, and specific example from the games "no spartan dies, they're marked as missing in action." All the covenant we see are soldiers... yeah that tends to happen when you're fighting on your own home turf against an invading army.

Dude, do you know how many logistical personel are involved in a military operation for every one soldier? In Vietnam it was 10:1. That's 10 logistics for every one combat soldier. Given how many operations the Spartans undertake in enemy installations or onboard enemy starships or bases don't you think we'd see at least one unarmed tech? Especially given that more than one mission was covert or other done under situations where support personel wouldn't necessarily ready themselves for action.

But no, every one we see is patrolling. Or even on the bridge, people are apparently at stations but everyone's got assault needlers and concussion whatevers. Apparently in the covenant everyone has a side arm and grenades on them at all times, even when they're cleaning out the toilets.

Disregarded due to apparent lack of knowledge of the military.

It's not even close to legitimate. Unless your idea of supporting is watching the "master race" lose through the entire story to be saved by another race.

Oh yeah, at the end the humans are saved by the Covenant Master Race. The Elites. The best overall species of the covenant.

So the master race of white guys is saved by the master race of black guys is the explanation you're going for to make it still Nazi propaganda. That is hilarious, dumb, but hilarious none the less.

Movie Bob is reading between the lines of Reach and Reach alone. Halo Reach is not intended to be played separated from the context of the previous Halo games. It's supposed to be a low quality bone tossed to rabid fan boys.

I love how you apparently know the express intentions of the designers.

Reach was done a year after their last effort, with an identical system, and a plot so cliche you could point out how each member of the team was going to die after hearing them speak. Even the multi-player had only a few extra gimmicks thrown in and found itself lacking in maps in comparison to Halo 3. Believing Reach was anything other than a last bit of fan service would be a bigger insult to the team at Bungie than Bob's Nazi claims.
And yes, Reach is intended to be played after the other games, because if it weren't we'd like to believe they would have attempted to put in some sort of story about who the hell the covenant are or what they want, or even why the whole bloody war is going on in the first place. The only tiny bit of that you get is when they try to get to the lab under the O.N.I. building and even that isn't enough to leave anyone new to the story feeling like they've grasped the plot.