The Big Picture: Correctitude

[Archaneus]

I think a lot of what you said is true with one major exception. A lot of the people, hell probably almost all of them, who objected to that ethnicity change in Thor are probably just Stormfront Douchebags. However, while that particular change didn't really bother me, there is a legitimate complaint there and there are other more egregious examples of the same concept that just displays a lack of respect of the original material and/or history. For example, the race bending that went on with Kingpin in the Daredevil movie was inexcusable. Why? Because the idea of Kingpin being the personification of the privileged, rich, exploitative "man," requires that he be the stereotypical privileged rich white man. If society didn't have an image of "the man" as an old rich white guy, then that change makes sense. In the case of that movie though, and other similar switches, it is clearly a mistake. It may not be caused by political correctness, but it sure does seem like it's an attempt to placate people who would complain if there wasn't enough diversity. The same thing is present in a great many movies set in particular points in the past. Why do we see African knights in British medeival era tv shows? Again, a disregard for history in order to placate those people who would complain if they weren't there. Yeah, a lot of bigots use this term to throw around evil nonsense. It doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate claims to be made along these lines.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I think you may be going a bit over the top on this. There are certainly situations where political correctness is ridiculous, for instance, the Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep thing, or people complaining that black is an insensitive term. Sure if someone specifically asks me to not call them that I won't, but it doesn't make them any less black. Should I start complaining when people call me white?

The man has a point.

wrt Bob's "words mean things", it's a little counter-productive to throw out descriptive words in favour of inaccurate and verbose words. A white guy born in Africa who becomes a US citizen is literally an African-American. A black guy whose family has been in the USA for four generations isn't.

Efficiency is a piss poor reason to avoid simple niceness.

How is "Black" anything but descriptive?

 

[Normandyfoxtrot]

I think you may be going a bit over the top on this. There are certainly situations where political correctness is ridiculous, for instance, the Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep thing, or people complaining that black is an insensitive term. Sure if someone specifically asks me to not call them that I won't, but it doesn't make them any less black. Should I start complaining when people call me white?

The man has a point.

wrt Bob's "words mean things", it's a little counter-productive to throw out descriptive words in favour of inaccurate and verbose words. A white guy born in Africa who becomes a US citizen is literally an African-American. A black guy whose family has been in the USA for four generations isn't.

Efficiency is a piss poor reason to avoid simple niceness.

How is "Black" anything but descriptive?

Most notably? a cultural assumption of something being impure or evil if it is black for one. for two it's not even correct.

 

[MintyNinja]

Great argument, Bob. I haven't had any "PC problems" myself, but I think that may be due to the company I keep. I remember having another point to make but it seems to have slipped my mind. Too bad. Once again, thanks for all your work, Bob.

 

[RowdyRodimus]

Half of what Bob said was right the other half was frankly pretty stupid.

-People using anti-political correctness as a shield, yeah screw them.

-People going WAY out of their way to avoid being "offensive" can be very annoying. For example, the insistence that the the phrase Arab terrorists is somehow offensive drives me a bit crazy.

No offense Bob you clearly don't have a very good grip on politics, your doing what bad comedians do. Most comedians can't do competent political commentary and confuse preaching an ideology (typically liberal) with wit. Stick to geekdom, you actually have something interesting to say about that.

Thank you for saying in a much nicer way what I was wanting to say. I would've hated to come across as a big meanie, poopie headed jerk who wants to deport all Mexicans, Asians, Muslims, (insert any other ethnic or religious group you want here), send all the women to the kitchen and the blacks down to the fields.

Really though, with his words (which mean things, remember) in past videos has contradicted himself many times based on what he said here. Even with some of the images he used along with the words spoken at the time, obviously describing them, he became the the "big jerk" who was just being "mean". Or does that only count if you aren't talking about someone on the right, politically speaking?

You seem to be missing that fact that bob never said he wasn't a jerk hell the core of the rant had more to do with people not owning up to being assholes than a true indictment of being as asshole.

That's the thing. He whitewashes (sorry if that term is too mean using the word white and all, Bob) anything that fits his agenda (Race that isn't white, Female Superiority-Basically anything the ACLU has a hard on for) but trashes anything that is at the opposite side of his political spectrum. Then he says that if you don't use the buzzwords that he says aren't PC but being nice, then you are just being mean and a jerk.

He's cherry picking and using his "niceness" when it suits his cause but then bashing the people and ideals he doesn't support. It's the standard leftist trick of attacking what they don't like because they lack a real argument against it.

I admit I'm an asshole. I admit I hate the lefts political views and feel they are destroying not only America but the world itself. The difference is, I don't have a pulpit to preach from every week on this site and sycophants that will blindly agree with me because they might get a "that a boy", whoops, "that a person" from a site contributor. (Wasn't meaning you in that sentence, just the people that do that sort of thing with all the hosts)

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I think you may be going a bit over the top on this. There are certainly situations where political correctness is ridiculous, for instance, the Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep thing, or people complaining that black is an insensitive term. Sure if someone specifically asks me to not call them that I won't, but it doesn't make them any less black. Should I start complaining when people call me white?

The man has a point.

wrt Bob's "words mean things", it's a little counter-productive to throw out descriptive words in favour of inaccurate and verbose words. A white guy born in Africa who becomes a US citizen is literally an African-American. A black guy whose family has been in the USA for four generations isn't.

Efficiency is a piss poor reason to avoid simple niceness.

How is "Black" anything but descriptive?

Most notably? a cultural assumption of something being impure or evil if it is black for one. for two it's not even correct.

So, "Brown" or "Dark Skinned" would be more acceptable from a literal stand point? Honestly, these are just the words we've been using, as a culture, for centuries.

The rhyme or reason behind them is spotty at best.

And immediately applying negative connotations to a term can either be socially ingrained or personally fostered. Black, in this sense, can fall into either category pretty easily, yet still remains a valid word for its purpose.

Seriously, I've heard several terms now for the same race, all of which seem to fluctuate and become more needlessly verbose as time goes on. They're all used interchangeably anyway (Not including the N one, of couse), so why bother.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I think you may be going a bit over the top on this. There are certainly situations where political correctness is ridiculous, for instance, the Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep thing, or people complaining that black is an insensitive term. Sure if someone specifically asks me to not call them that I won't, but it doesn't make them any less black. Should I start complaining when people call me white?

The man has a point.

wrt Bob's "words mean things", it's a little counter-productive to throw out descriptive words in favour of inaccurate and verbose words. A white guy born in Africa who becomes a US citizen is literally an African-American. A black guy whose family has been in the USA for four generations isn't.

Efficiency is a piss poor reason to avoid simple niceness.

How is "Black" anything but descriptive?

Most notably? a cultural assumption of something being impure or evil if it is black for one. for two it's not even correct.

But I don't associate calling someone with calling them evil. It's the spirit in which is something is said that's important. If am just describing someone's skin colour then there's nothing else I can really say. I mean I can say brown, or dark. But does that really change anything?

 

[fKd]

nice work here bob, i agree

 

[Clonekiller]

Okay soooooo... Political correctness is a good thing? It seems to me that many movies and stories don't get shown or told because they are "not politically correct". You know, the same way that the "old" seasons of Sesame Street (old here meaning made sometime before 2005) come with a warning that says "some content may not be suitable for children". Why? Cause the Cookie Monster is unhealthy and Oscar is discriminated against. (He's a grouch you know.) Ever see the movie called Black Board Jungle or Citizen Kane? Movies like those are avoided or outright banned for being "discriminatory" or too politically incorrect. Heck, it's hard to be honest in a college writing discussion group (or a game / fandom topic) without being clobbered for being "hateful" and "discriminatory".

It seems to me, that if Bob is going to talk about one aspect of a rotten deal, he should talk about the other. Otherwise, he comes across as being biased. Sorry, but I don't think half the picture counts as the "big picture".

 

[Zero V85]

Now I know Thor is a comic and "COMICS ARE WEIRD" but it is a loose retelling of Norse mythology and I have it on good authority that no Norse man thought of any of his gods being anything other then white. Now if this where a comic about a loose retelling about Shaka Zulu and his gods or any of the Hindu gods being made into a move I wouldn't at all be expecting any of them to have white Caucasians playing any of those rolls, and if they did, would any one call that just being PC? No they would be labeled raciest and ethnocentric. (and to be honest I would be insulted if they had to throw in a token white guy into such a move for fear of alienating the white audience)

Oh and on a side note no one put up a fuss when in resident evil 4 the hero was slaughtering leagues of poor Spanish speaking peasants in a country mostly populated my Spaniards but its not OK to have a game set in the heart of Africa where the zombie out break would mostly affect Africans. Political correctness has run a muck and it really needs to end and not everyone that thinks so is a raciest. (consequently it was a little odd playing RE 5 and seeing infected Spanish and Caucasians in a country that has a tiny population of both.)

 

[Shadow_Kid]

I don't agree with everything you said. I don't want a black person taking a white persons role in any remake. Unless it's re-imagining the whole movie. You wouldn't cast a white kid as Michael Jackson when hew was 8.

Have you seen Shawshank Redemption?
Morgan Freeman plays Red - redheaded irishmen. I dare you to say that movie was not awesome.

 

[Zero V85]

I don't agree with everything you said. I don't want a black person taking a white persons role in any remake. Unless it's re-imagining the whole movie. You wouldn't cast a white kid as Michael Jackson when hew was 8.

Have you seen Shawshank Redemption?
Morgan Freeman plays Red - redheaded irishmen. I dare you to say that movie was not awesome.

I agree that Shawshank was a great movie but that kind if thing is a one way street. It's fine to turn a white character in a book into a black character in a movie but I dare you to show me an example of the reverse. I grantee the ACLU would have that movie shut down for being raciest and insensitive if it ever got put into production in the first place.

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

I have to say, I think this is the first time I've completely and honestly disagreed with Bob, in either Big Picture or Escape to the movies. I mean, we haven't always seen perfectly eye to eye (while it was definitely sub-par, I didn't hate The Expendables nearly as vehemently as you did, for instance) but I've always agreed with your general points, or at least understood where you were coming from.

But this? This is absolute garbage. I'm half expecting a "gotcha" big picture next week talking about how your really not THIS thick.


Gonna use a few examples from your bit here, and lets start with Thor. I'm assuming your Black-Thor picture was a reference to Idris Elba as Heimdall in the new Thor flick. As someone who reviews movies for a LIVING, I kinda expected a little better insight into the workings of Hollywood, but I'll lay it out for you. Hollywood didn't pick a black man for a white role because Elba fits the role perfectly or because of his great chops (don't get me wrong, loved him in Wire, not a fan of his other works though.) No. Hollywood picked a black man for a white role, in order to increase the ticket sales to black people, and as a nice added bonus, to give a little "controversy" and free publicity to the thing. The problem is, no amount of good story writing or superb acting is going to make him feel like anything more than "token black guy" in a role that he REALLY shouldn't be in. How about this: show me a movie about Shango, with the lead role going to Justin Beiber or some-such, and see the reactions you get.

Flip side: Mr Jackson as Nick Fury. Doesn't really bother me. Nothing about Fury's character seemed particularly "white" to me. Samuel L Jackson is a good actor and lends credence to the part. Plus the comic writers planned it out and did the swap well in advance, in the comics. Another one, Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin in the Daredevil movie. Okay, so the movie wasn't all the great, but Kingpin was originally a white character. MCD fit the role in every physical way except the melanin level, plus the man is a great actor, so away you go.

And a quick deviation while I'm on the subject. Black people are black. They're not African American. Black people *WERE* African American 200 years ago when they actually came from Africa. Want to know what an African American looks like today? I work with someone who was actually born in Africa. He's white. Kinda like Murdock from the new A-Team movie (I kinda wanted to reference his awesome job in District-9, but that seems too obvious)

Anyway, back to the video: While I certainly don't hold the notion that "sexual harassment doesn't exist," I will say that the possibility for a female to use that term without just cause does exist. For you to lump every one together as polarized extremes only shows how flawed your argument is. You seriously came out and said: "it's either me, or Ogre... there can be no middle ground." Seriously

How about man. MAN. Mailman. Anchorman. Or I've got one for you: HUMAN. Or should that be hupersons? hupeople? No matter what you've heard or who will tell you otherwise, man is short for human. A mailman is a human who does maily things. If you really think it's offensive, get over it. Mailperson, postal delivery person, etc are just awkward and unwieldy to say, plus they make red-wavy lines in MS Word, so that means they're wrong That doesn't mean I have an issue with a woman in that role. "My mailman is a woman," seems like a perfectly valid statement. Or you can just drop the "man" if it offends you so. "The Anchor on the evening news." (mail being a homonym of male does confuse the issue somewhat) Other less formal roles like busboy or bat-boy could be suited to their female counterparts as well, but losing the alliteration would just break my heart.

Last thing, as for PotUS. If I have an issue with my Commander in Chief I will have plenty of sane, logical reasons behind it, and won't rely on his taste for fried food. (side note: I could totally go for some fried chicken right now myself... damn midnight ranting) That goes for the current President, past Presidents and future ones as well. To be honest, I do disagree with a lot of what Obama has been doing in office, but that's another story for another rant. Suffice to say, I don't bust out fried chicken and watermelon references to further my point, and neither should you, Bob.


Bottom line is this: Racist bigoted jerks are just that, whether they use "PC shields" or not. And pompous "my way or the highway" windbags are also just that. Both sets need to be called on their shenanigans.

So Bob, this is me, calling you out, on the silly overarching broad-brush shenanigans.

 

[Zero V85]

Ahem about the statement made by Lowkey_jotunn


I AGREE!
that is all.

 

[0megaZer0]

Fuck you Bob.

Making a a joke "in bad taste" or one that "racially insensitive" does NOT automatically make you a biggot/asshole. Perhaps a person with a twisted or arguably immature sense of humor, but not a balls-to-the-wall racist/bad person as you seem to be.. nono, as you ARE making them out to be. it's people like YOU who like to simply label people that do'nt agree with your "new age" line of thought that go out harassing others, crusading against an offensive joke or two; that are the REASON comedians make themselves out to be warriors of free speech. YOU are who they are speaking out against.

*sigh* I really get sick of all the stupid double standards... Carlin comes up just short of attacking any and all religion, and he's a funny, unorthodox guy (because you agree with him); but a man simply points out some of the humor in the differences between the specifics sects of the population here or there, and he's a biggot, ignorant, and distinctly UNfunny simply because you'd rather feign ignorance and pretend tat all people are the same, or that there are no "races" or common factors amongst them, so that we can just MOVE FORWARD as a race, and EVOLVE into some kind of super future utopia, or whatever the fuck stupid boyish fantasy you've constructed about the potential of humankind to substitute for a lack of any kind of a higher power...

unintelligent, knowledgeable tripe; masked as wisdom; calling out and insulting another breed of tripe, simply because that brand of tripe doesn't agree with the first's only remaining hope of it's distorted view of "progress" all the while maintaining a smug air of superiority because of a misconception of a perceived superiority of knowledge, which in the end does'nt necessarily mean ANYTHING anyway (you can KNOW more and still be wrong).

Logic be damned!

 

[good_omen]

Completely right. People need to start realising that they are just being jerks. Good on you Bob, awesome as always.

Ok, as an edit to my comment defending Bob:

Thors casting was a reflection of the community at this point in time, one that has moved on since the original comics were made. You assume that because there is a person of a specific race in a movie that means that that entire race is going to go see it? No. Thats racist. The whole Resident Evil 5 scandal? That was exactly what Bob said it was. I can't think of a better argument than the one he gave.

As for the whole "men" to "person" change, it was important to the first women who were going into world and being counted to be treated as equals, and this change helped them. Some find it weird, but back then it meant something. It meant inclusion to all genders.

Just my opinion.

 

[Hoagster51]

MovieBob seemed still angry in the closing lines.

 

[Mordwyl]

Personally I thought using "-man" for a lot of things is pretty much gender-neutral.

 

[Pakkie]

This Ep was so politically incorrect.

 

[Drakulea]

Half of what Bob said was right the other half was frankly pretty stupid.

-People using anti-political correctness as a shield, yeah screw them.

-People going WAY out of their way to avoid being "offensive" can be very annoying. For example, the insistence that the the phrase Arab terrorists is somehow offensive drives me a bit crazy.

No offense Bob you clearly don't have a very good grip on politics, your doing what bad comedians do. Most comedians can't do competent political commentary and confuse preaching an ideology (typically liberal) with wit. Stick to geekdom, you actually have something interesting to say about that.

Thank you for saying in a much nicer way what I was wanting to say. I would've hated to come across as a big meanie, poopie headed jerk who wants to deport all Mexicans, Asians, Muslims, (insert any other ethnic or religious group you want here), send all the women to the kitchen and the blacks down to the fields.

Really though, with his words (which mean things, remember) in past videos has contradicted himself many times based on what he said here. Even with some of the images he used along with the words spoken at the time, obviously describing them, he became the the "big jerk" who was just being "mean". Or does that only count if you aren't talking about someone on the right, politically speaking?

You seem to be missing that fact that bob never said he wasn't a jerk hell the core of the rant had more to do with people not owning up to being assholes than a true indictment of being as asshole.

That's the thing. He whitewashes (sorry if that term is too mean using the word white and all, Bob) anything that fits his agenda (Race that isn't white, Female Superiority-Basically anything the ACLU has a hard on for) but trashes anything that is at the opposite side of his political spectrum. Then he says that if you don't use the buzzwords that he says aren't PC but being nice, then you are just being mean and a jerk.

He's cherry picking and using his "niceness" when it suits his cause but then bashing the people and ideals he doesn't support. It's the standard leftist trick of attacking what they don't like because they lack a real argument against it.

I admit I'm an asshole. I admit I hate the lefts political views and feel they are destroying not only America but the world itself. The difference is, I don't have a pulpit to preach from every week on this site and sycophants that will blindly agree with me because they might get a "that a boy", whoops, "that a person" from a site contributor. (Wasn't meaning you in that sentence, just the people that do that sort of thing with all the hosts)

Yes,yes... I know "proper forum etiquette" would have me *not* jump in like this. But I'm not in an "etiquette" mood today.

So let me get this straight. You admit you are, as you say, an "asshole".

But if you're an asshole, how can you tell the difference between being common-sense nice and being a sermonizing Politically-Correct jerk? To you, common-sense courtesy is being Politically Correct, so naturally any trace of politeness instantly translates to Political Correctness and,conveniently, suddenly legitimizes your assholiness. Because PC is bad, you're good. Of course,there's the little thing that your assholiness can't tell the difference between being nice and being PC.

For the record. I agree that you're an asshole,but I'd like to heap on the praise some more : you're an American ignorant,arrogant asshole. Self-assured in his obliviousness of world affairs.

For example : the "left is destroying the world". A classic,hollow political statement. Really, what's this supposed to mean? It sounds like something outside of a comic book.