The Big Picture: Groan Saga

[EchetusXe]

Ah, to be a comic book writer. What you say? We have written ourselves into a hole? Well get out your shovels boys because we are going to be doing some digging for the next few years. Ok... that failed. IT WAS ALL A DREAM.

Nice to see Bob recognize our comments on how we enjoyed the 'Comics are Weird' shows. He was telling the truth when he said he reads all of our comments (err, why would he lie about that?).

And it seems to be as though the whole period from around 1950 to 2000 sucked ass quite a bit, and then Bush took office! Cold War over, crappy '80s fads over, a decade to start over again, and get it right this time! With that mindset how did the '90s end up sucking so hard? Such a wasted decade.

Now we have 2010s - black president, Muslims overthrowing their dictators, Brazil, China and India rising from poverty to superpower status, free porn available to all via the wonders of the internet. What can go wrong eh? Whats that you say? President Palin blames pornography for China taking the upper hand in WW3? At least SkyNet will solve all our problems.

 

[Primus1985]

And here I was thinking Bob was more focused on DC's history, I tip my hat to you sir!

Personally I liked Ben sometimes, other times he seemed like a emo douche. Kane, for being an afterthought was a deep character, Jackel...got old after awhile. I stopped reading it for awhile, off and on to see what was happening. I think it ended well overall, but Marvel really dug themselves into a hole on that one.



Personally a more intiging topic, and a great "Comics are Weird!" segment would be DC's Death of Superman arc. It needs to be examined what that did to industry and to DC.

 

[spider-dork]

Gotta chime in and agree with Bob on his last statement. Spider-Girl was a fabulous series and I would highly recommend it.

 

[roostuf]

Man the ninties you keep on painting really looks shit.

The 80's and 70's had their fair share of shit as well. People rattle on about Bieber but forget Stock/Aiken/Waterman, The Monkees, and all the other manufactured bands.

Anyway, SpiderGirl...yeah...something about her...She's purty.

Yeah and the fact that im a firm 80's man myself, and besides the 90's weren't all that great.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Sooooooo... is it the result of this same period that had Marvel kill off like 70% of it's main characters? You know, the whole Onslaught thing?

 

[Technicka]

If you can get into Doctor Who, and not complain about not knowing every little detail, you can get into comics with just as much ease. Just saying.

 

[Iorio Braga]

Man, I don't know what you're talking about. I loved Ben Reilly. I miss him to this day. I always felt that Spiderman had this deep melancholy atached to him. Not Ben Reilly. The one where he kicks Venom's ass is still my favorite one of all time. When they killed him, I stopped reading ALL american comic books (DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, Image etc). I lost all interest after that. I still kept reading a lot of mangas, but that was pretty much the end of comics to me. I loved that character, and when they just threw him in the garbage without any explanation I decided to stop reading american comics. That was the kind of effect it had on me. It really surprises me that a guy who complains so much about fanboysm would do a entire show on complaining about the only huge change in Spiderman's universe. I may be completely wrong, but that seems like double standards. Then, perhaps I'm the only one who feel that way. I hope I'm not sounding too agressive, but you (Mr. Chipman) are a very smart man, who can read between the lines, and can take constructive criticism.
Very big hug!

 

[Hosker]

This is why spiderman is better as a TV show really.

Also the 90s didn't completely suck. 2 things.
1)Gas prices
2)No star wars prequel triology and the ensuing futile piles of bullshit that followed becasue it turns out that stuff mr. lucas wrote first weren't as good as the stuff he wrote after. and because it wasn't the time rending mega nerd fan service homage that mega nerd fans wanted. and because it didn't have han solo. and becasue it got delayed a couple of times. and because star wars special edition already put a bad taste in people mouth. and because it created new plot holes. and because it didn't have as many wookies. and because jedi were a dime a dozen and not superheros. and because it tried to appeal to all ages instead of just 30-40 year old nerds who loved the first ones because it appealed to all ages(<- that one is actually really important and causes most arguments against the prequels to fall apart). and because it showed darth vader as an innocent boy. and becasue it didn't involve a death star.

I sorry this is way off topic and turning into a rant against rants against the prequel triology.

Clones made me think of star wars... anyway... how bout them cowboys?

Why are you talking about Star Wars? This video had absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[Jeffro Tull]

I'm surprised that you stuck with the clone saga. I couldn't take it anymore and had to stop reading it. I always wondered what happened with that.

 

[TiefBlau]

Aw, but I love the 90's!

Sure, it was an awful, spoiled decade, but it's my awful, spoiled decade! I love you forever, 90's!

 

[rayen020]

This is why spiderman is better as a TV show really.

Also the 90s didn't completely suck. 2 things.
1)Gas prices
2)No star wars prequel triology and the ensuing futile piles of bullshit that followed becasue it turns out that stuff mr. lucas wrote first weren't as good as the stuff he wrote after. and because it wasn't the time rending mega nerd fan service homage that mega nerd fans wanted. and because it didn't have han solo. and becasue it got delayed a couple of times. and because star wars special edition already put a bad taste in people mouth. and because it created new plot holes. and because it didn't have as many wookies. and because jedi were a dime a dozen and not superheros. and because it tried to appeal to all ages instead of just 30-40 year old nerds who loved the first ones because it appealed to all ages(<- that one is actually really important and causes most arguments against the prequels to fall apart). and because it showed darth vader as an innocent boy. and becasue it didn't involve a death star.

I sorry this is way off topic and turning into a rant against rants against the prequel triology.

Clones made me think of star wars... anyway... how bout them cowboys?

Why are you talking about Star Wars? This video had absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[XMark]

Are there any good major comic book series that started within the past few years that don't require knowledge of a boatload of continuity to start out with?

 

[NaramSuen]

I never really followed any of the superhero comics faithfully, but I would pick up the odd issue of Spider-man and Batman. I remember stopping by my local comic book store during this entire fiasco and seeing that horrible costume on the front cover and shaking my head in shame.

 

[Kilowog17]

Understanding the Clone Saga makes advanced calculus look easy.
Seriously, it used to be the running gag at my home town comic store - If you mentioned the Clone Saga to one of the guys, he'd have an aneurysm and wake up three days later from ranting too hard.

 

[EvilShroom]

I have recently started to explore comics as a storytelling medium, and lack of consistency is the main thing that keeps me away. I really want to love the medium of comics, but can't deal with it when any event can be robbed of its emotional impact and depth by being re-written or reinterpreted later. I don't even care how unrealistic or fantastical it is as long as the story can remain consistent within its own rules, but most comics apparently have no rules.

Does anyone know where I can find a list of comics that tell stories rather than a bunch of contradictory episodes? I have managed to find some that I liked, although none in the superhero genre (Sandman, Preacher, Transmetropolitan)

 

[MB202]

90's, fuck you

-everyone

Except me.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Comics are Wierd almost needs its own video series at this point, though even without that, I look foreward to somes looks at books to prepare for our superhero movie summer: Thor and Eric MAsterson, Captain America's Dergrading Super Soldier Serium, Hal Jordan's troubles (might need two parts). Man, looking back, you gotta wonder why we read all that crap. Gotta Love the Soap Opera effect.

The clone Saga is something I give the A for effort and a C- for execution (a generous grade, but given the forced extention due to popular hatred of Ben Reily, I'll overlook much of the second year). There were nice ideas in there. I liked Kaine, thought things would be more interesting with an out of the game Spider-Man facing off against experienced villans with a grude, and was happy we might actualy move some characters on to other non comic things. I'll even say I liked the idea of the Jackel: a Joker level looney with enough advanced bio-chemesrty to be a serious threat to the world, not just Gothem city.

Then there were other problems: forced lengthing, retconning a retconn (there was a different explaination for the clones from back to the Evolutionary War (1988) they had to undo to make them real clones) a couple of Gwen stacey clones unaccounted for, Jackel not really living up to potential (though he did wipe out a small town witha plague), Spidercide, and that's just the stuff at the time. It took years to make Norman a real badass threat (in the fraking Thunderbolts, not the Spidey books), bringing back Aunt May invaladated an issue I left rear marks on, and don't get me started on baby May.

Still, I wouldn't call it Spidey's lowest point. That honer doesn't even go to One May Day and all it's fanfiction-ness. Sins Past: the story that claims Gwen pumped out a set of twins from Norman Osborn, THAT one hurt.

As for Spider-Girl, a fun book, but never lived up to the potential from the first two years. As soon as she won the respect of her father it slowly devoled into MC2 version of [blank] over larger stories and characterization (same thing with the Ultimate Spidey books). You know they were out of ideas when she got her own damn clone (or rather a clone / venom symboite hybrid). Some of the oddness of the 90s seeps through.

 

[crypto_jones]

The clone saga was all the more confusing that its explosion in the 90s was splitted apart between The amazing Spider-man series and the Spectacular Spider-man, making it hell for those who (like my dad (hey, I was like 3-4 years old at the time!)) were only subscribers to one of the two.