The Big Picture: Holy Spoilers Batman!

[ZZoMBiE13]

Darn it all. TBP is one of my favorite web shows each week. But I haven't seen TDKR yet. Now I'm a sad panda.

 

[Taunta]

I wasn't really expecting Miranda to be Talia, but when it happened, I kind've just smacked myself like OF COURSE, because I knew Talia was A) Ra's al Ghul's daughter and B) A love interest, I just didn't put 2 and 2 together. Then again, I have an average knowledge of Batman lore so the scar bit went completely over my head. I kept waiting for them to explain it in the movie too, but it never came.

Slightly off topic, but the way she died in the movie was weird. It's like oh suddenly she's a bad guy and then she just up and dies 5 minutes later after giving a big plot dump and I'm just like "...ok."

Starfire and Robin had a kid? Awesome. She looks like Blackfire from the show...Is Blackfire canon in the comics? Also, I thought Starfire was with some other guy.

I don't know about you, but I totally did not see the Robin twist coming.
A) I remember hearing Nolan say that he wouldn't have a Robin in his films cause he thought Robin was silly.
B) Bruce Wayne is supposedly too young to have a Robin at this point in time.
C) I knew Bane breaks Bruce's back, he's pretty much a one-trick pony.
D) There was a part in the trailer with the kid asking John Blake "do you think he's coming back?" so I knew Batman was going to be out of commission at some point.
E) I had my money on John Blake as Azrael.

Also finally, after seeing Bane's design in the film, I'm kind of sad that his design in the comics looks so stupid. Also he has that completely unsexy shoulder hair thing going on and I'm conflicted because Tom Hardy's Bane is IMO really hot so aslkfsehrf9ednuoasdas.

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

Hmmm...I wonder how these plot items will play out in regards to something else someone noticed.

I can't remember what it was, but I think someone here on the Escapist suggested that in one scene where we see Wayne walking around with a cane, it was a setup that leads into a possible live action version of Batman Beyond. Now...granted it's a stretch, but I can definitely see the connection.

I want Batman: Beyond. If done right, a couple of Beyond movies would be much more entertaining than regular Batman movies.

 

[Allthingsspectacular]

Comics are fuckin' weird man.

 

[Tono Makt]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

No, it wasn't that obvious. Remember, we're on the Internet and in particular, a geek-centric website. We've all got some geek cred that we have to appear to keep up, and much of that involves outright lying about things like this.

Because really, if I type out "I totally called that.", how are you going to prove me wrong? You can't - there's no way for you to prove I'm lying. Hell, you can't even tell me what my name is since I use a handle here instead of my actual name. So yeah, you'll see most people posting "I totally called it!" when they're really going "I totally did not see it coming, but everyone else here is saying they saw it coming so I'm going to post it too."

I'll happily admit that I didn't see the Miranda/Talia switch up. I expected it at the beginning, but when they started to make it look like Bane was the child, I stopped thinking about it and started to wonder how much I liked the idea of Bane being the child. So when the reveal came later, I was surprised.

 

[Thespian]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

I expected her to be a bad guy so I thought "Talia? :O" but then I remembered hearing that the rumours that Marion Cotillard were Talia were like, dismissed or something. So I was totally surprised by it. But then it was sort of a cheap twist.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

So, how long is Moviebob going to keep milking Batman? It's been what, 2 months of nothing but Batman related topics?

 

[88chaz88]

And this is why I don't bother with comics.

 

[faefrost]

Starfire and Robin had a kid? Awesome. She looks like Blackfire from the show...Is Blackfire canon in the comics?

In the comics Blackfire is or was Starfires older sister. She was a long time major villain in the Teen Titans books. They also had a younger brother who was one of the Omega Men. I'm not sure if any of them survived the DC new 52.

 

[wizzy555]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

I didn't see the information about the casting or the production pictures so I didn't really expect it. Immediately after I thought, "I should have seen that coming". I was more wondering if Ra's would appear saying "See, I told you I'm immortal" (which he half did).

The foreign accent and the interest in the bomb started me half suspicious that "something was up" but I forgot about that by the end.

 

[fieryhotaru]

Bob, I love you, but you pronounced Ra's al Ghul wrong (and so does the stupid first movie). It's pronounced Raish.

 

[TwistedEllipses]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

By now you can tell from the replies that some did and some didn't guess the twist. I did both. When Bruce shows her his nuclear device, it seemed like a big leap of trust and I guessed at that point she would betray him. The thing is, there's a lot of screentime before she does and by then I had abandoned the idea. All in all I think it was handled well and I only 'called it' because it was a movie and betrayal is a common trope...

From previous comments I want to add this:
- If you like twists, don't read rumours or see trailers
- If you've read the comics and figured it out from that, why didn't you kick up a fuss when Harvey Dent became Two face? It's basically the same and you're treating it as a negative that the film embraced a bit of comic lore...

EDIT:

exhibit a: the mastermind behind the whole thing was the child of ra's al ghul.
exhibit b: ra's al ghul had a daughter
exhibit c: there are two female characters in the movie, one of which is catwoman.

i rest my case

A - True (though Batman just weirdly jumps to the conclusion the mercenary in the tale is him)
B - Only in the comics. The child shown is bald and looks fairly androgynous - I was fooled.
C - 3 if you count Catwoman's gal pal!

 

[irishda]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

exhibit a: the mastermind behind the whole thing was the child of ra's al ghul.
exhibit b: ra's al ghul had a daughter
exhibit c: there are two female characters in the movie, one of which is catwoman.

i rest my case

Yeah but Nolan's never been afraid of changing the formula around. Not to mention the twist plays on another comic book mainstay: Bane was born in a prison. This time around it's Talia.

So one of two established lore was going to be wrong.
Either A: Bane was born in a prison.
or B: Ra's Al Ghul's child was Talia.

The defense rests sir!

Also, I didn't really like the assertion that just because Ra's showed up, Talia needed to as well. As Bob rhetorically asks in the video "Why else would you include him?" How about because they needed a mentor figure and someone to legitimately pose a threat to Batman, and Ra's is the only villain that pulls off both. Honestly, Ra's is really the only villain that can go toe to toe with Batman without needing steroids or the help of hideous genetic deficiencies (Killer Croc).

 

[teebeeohh]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

exhibit a: the mastermind behind the whole thing was the child of ra's al ghul.
exhibit b: ra's al ghul had a daughter
exhibit c: there are two female characters in the movie, one of which is catwoman.

i rest my case

Yeah but Nolan's never been afraid of changing the formula around. Not to mention the twist plays on another comic book mainstay: Bane was born in a prison. This time around it's Talia.

So one of two established lore was going to be wrong.
Either A: Bane was born in a prison.
or B: Ra's Al Ghul's child was Talia.

The defense rests sir!

Also, I didn't really like the assertion that just because Ra's showed up, Talia needed to as well. As Bob rhetorically asks in the video "Why else would you include him?" How about because they needed a mentor figure and someone to legitimately pose a threat to Batman, and Ra's is the only villain that pulls off both. Honestly, Ra's is really the only villain that can go toe to toe with Batman without needing steroids or the help of hideous genetic deficiencies (Killer Croc).

the prosecution would like to where in the movie is there any mention of Bane not being born in a prison?
also yeah, i completely did not consider that either while writing the post nor watching the movie. it just seems to be a minor detail compared to changing who ra's al ghuls child is.

 

[irishda]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

exhibit a: the mastermind behind the whole thing was the child of ra's al ghul.
exhibit b: ra's al ghul had a daughter
exhibit c: there are two female characters in the movie, one of which is catwoman.

i rest my case

Yeah but Nolan's never been afraid of changing the formula around. Not to mention the twist plays on another comic book mainstay: Bane was born in a prison. This time around it's Talia.

So one of two established lore was going to be wrong.
Either A: Bane was born in a prison.
or B: Ra's Al Ghul's child was Talia.

The defense rests sir!

Also, I didn't really like the assertion that just because Ra's showed up, Talia needed to as well. As Bob rhetorically asks in the video "Why else would you include him?" How about because they needed a mentor figure and someone to legitimately pose a threat to Batman, and Ra's is the only villain that pulls off both. Honestly, Ra's is really the only villain that can go toe to toe with Batman without needing steroids or the help of hideous genetic deficiencies (Killer Croc).

the prosecution would like to where in the movie is there any mention of Bane not being born in a prison?
also yeah, i completely did not consider that either while writing the post nor watching the movie. it just seems to be a minor detail compared to changing who ra's al ghuls child is.

Irrelevant. The legend frequently mentioned is referring to Talia, but based on Bane's back-story, many would be led to believe that it was Bane. Since one child achieving such a feat as being born, raised, and escaping an inescapable prison created such a stir; a second child would probably receive similar renown. As there's no implications of two such legends, we're left to assume that only one was born in a prison.

 

[Darth_Payn]

As a comic reader, I saw every single twist coming a mile away. I knew that Miranda was Talia the moment she showed her scar and talked about her family at the fireplace.

Same here, and I lved every minute of it. As soon as bane told Batman he'd break him, I shivered because I knew what was coming. Then to see it happen on screen; painful. I had an "I knew it!" moment when "Miranda" revealed herself as really Talia al-Ghul. One of my friends who I saw the movie with said as soon as he saw "Mol from Inception" appear, he knew she was trouble!

 

[maxben]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

exhibit a: the mastermind behind the whole thing was the child of ra's al ghul.
exhibit b: ra's al ghul had a daughter
exhibit c: there are two female characters in the movie, one of which is catwoman.

i rest my case

Yeah but Nolan's never been afraid of changing the formula around. Not to mention the twist plays on another comic book mainstay: Bane was born in a prison. This time around it's Talia.

So one of two established lore was going to be wrong.
Either A: Bane was born in a prison.
or B: Ra's Al Ghul's child was Talia.

The defense rests sir!

Also, I didn't really like the assertion that just because Ra's showed up, Talia needed to as well. As Bob rhetorically asks in the video "Why else would you include him?" How about because they needed a mentor figure and someone to legitimately pose a threat to Batman, and Ra's is the only villain that pulls off both. Honestly, Ra's is really the only villain that can go toe to toe with Batman without needing steroids or the help of hideous genetic deficiencies (Killer Croc).

the prosecution would like to where in the movie is there any mention of Bane not being born in a prison?
also yeah, i completely did not consider that either while writing the post nor watching the movie. it just seems to be a minor detail compared to changing who ra's al ghuls child is.

Irrelevant. The legend frequently mentioned is referring to Talia, but based on Bane's back-story, many would be led to believe that it was Bane. Since one child achieving such a feat as being born, raised, and escaping an inescapable prison created such a stir; a second child would probably receive similar renown. As there's no implications of two such legends, we're left to assume that only one was born in a prison.

Bane specifically said that he didnt see the sunlight until he was a grown man, which follows that he couldnt have been born in THAT prison because they saw the sun everyday from there.
To be honest, it was at this point when I saw the prison that I put 2 and 2 together and figured out Talia (I have little geek cred and have never read the comics, it just seemed to follow and I did hear that Ras al Ghul had a daughter named Talia from somewhere).
Bane might have been born in a prison because where else would someone would be born and live in complete darkness (old fashioned style dungeon)? But it could be a variety of reasons.

 

[Gunnyboy]

The only thing that's "condescending," are comic fanboys whining that Nolan didn't slavishly translate the source. He always used the comics, and pecked from several stories (and even the TAS for Begins), to make his ADAPTATIONS. He didn't just get "comic booky" for this one.