The Big Picture: Skin Deep
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Okay, now i feel bad about giving my opinion because of so many people jumping down your throat, Bob. When i said to stop the white guilt, I'm talking to everyone, not just you. I agree with a lot of what you said.
But Bob, it sounds like your guilting whites. Even if you don't mean it. I know about all that white supremecy stuff. I've studied it for so long, it's burned into my brain. And i think we need to accept that it happened. So we can finally move on.
To everyone who has been saying that Bob is guilting whites. Calm. Down. PLEASE. The man is giving his opinion on how he sees the world. And lets face it, that opinion isn't too far from the truth. He was giving us a history lesson and yeah, double standards DO exist. He isn't literally beating down a white man in an alley, so please, stop treating him as such. In fact, wasn't this whole video meant to focus on the backlash an ALIEN's skin color? And didn't Bob mention that he wasn't qualified when it came to talking about non-american cultures?
To everyone here that's saying that white guilt is okay or that other cultures deserve pay back for what was done to them a long time ago: discrimination of someone based on what their ancestors did, is just as bad as any other discrimination. Do we hate germans or Japanese based on what happened in WW2? No, (though i imagine some people do, but those people are racist). In fact, wasn't the "payback" forced upon the German's after WW1 one of the factors that led to WW2? And before you ague, keep in mind that that "payback" was forced upon all of Germany, including those that had nothing to do with the war. Like CHILDREN.
On the topic of the double standard, heres an example: Turning Captain America black, but keeping everything else in the story the same.
If this happened, I would get angry. Not because he's black. But because having a black Captain America in WW2 would have an extremely different effect in the story. Sometimes you can't just change race in a story, just like you can't just change genders. Even if the actor is really good. In fact, Marvel has a "black captain america". Don't believe me? Google "Isaiah Bradley"
But it works because they gave him his own back story. One that fits the time it takes place in and touches upon the racism going on during the war. And it would make a REALLY good movie (Captain America 2, anyone?).
So to summarize.
Yes. Racism exists. Yes. Double Standards exist. Yes, we should accept that it exists so we do not ignore it. But that also means accepting that it's wrong, that it is possible to be racist against american white men just as much as it is possible to be racist against any other culture. And one of the ways to help end it is to stop using history to guilt those that had nothing to do with the event. ONE of the ways. To do not, will only continue the cycle of hate which so many of us have been trying to stop (enter star wars quote here)
Now... can we all please take a deep breath, take our fingernails out of Bob's eyes, and talk about how Idris Elba and My Little Pony are awesome?
But Bob, it sounds like your guilting whites. Even if you don't mean it. I know about all that white supremecy stuff. I've studied it for so long, it's burned into my brain. And i think we need to accept that it happened. So we can finally move on.
To everyone who has been saying that Bob is guilting whites. Calm. Down. PLEASE. The man is giving his opinion on how he sees the world. And lets face it, that opinion isn't too far from the truth. He was giving us a history lesson and yeah, double standards DO exist. He isn't literally beating down a white man in an alley, so please, stop treating him as such. In fact, wasn't this whole video meant to focus on the backlash an ALIEN's skin color? And didn't Bob mention that he wasn't qualified when it came to talking about non-american cultures?
To everyone here that's saying that white guilt is okay or that other cultures deserve pay back for what was done to them a long time ago: discrimination of someone based on what their ancestors did, is just as bad as any other discrimination. Do we hate germans or Japanese based on what happened in WW2? No, (though i imagine some people do, but those people are racist). In fact, wasn't the "payback" forced upon the German's after WW1 one of the factors that led to WW2? And before you ague, keep in mind that that "payback" was forced upon all of Germany, including those that had nothing to do with the war. Like CHILDREN.
On the topic of the double standard, heres an example: Turning Captain America black, but keeping everything else in the story the same.
If this happened, I would get angry. Not because he's black. But because having a black Captain America in WW2 would have an extremely different effect in the story. Sometimes you can't just change race in a story, just like you can't just change genders. Even if the actor is really good. In fact, Marvel has a "black captain america". Don't believe me? Google "Isaiah Bradley"
But it works because they gave him his own back story. One that fits the time it takes place in and touches upon the racism going on during the war. And it would make a REALLY good movie (Captain America 2, anyone?).
So to summarize.
Yes. Racism exists. Yes. Double Standards exist. Yes, we should accept that it exists so we do not ignore it. But that also means accepting that it's wrong, that it is possible to be racist against american white men just as much as it is possible to be racist against any other culture. And one of the ways to help end it is to stop using history to guilt those that had nothing to do with the event. ONE of the ways. To do not, will only continue the cycle of hate which so many of us have been trying to stop (enter star wars quote here)
Now... can we all please take a deep breath, take our fingernails out of Bob's eyes, and talk about how Idris Elba and My Little Pony are awesome?
Why are so many people saying stuff like "Because people say Elba did well?" I want to see more posts where people have actually seen a scene with him in it. I thought his scenes were freaking cool, I've never heard of this actor, now I've looked up more of his movies.
Do not agree with the video.
Why? How many Africans were where in Norse mythology? Okay yes, comic book, but still. If would be like if you made a comic book based on African mythology and made on of the characters white/Chinese/Indian for the sake of having them there. I know it's not a good example but lets take Vixen or Storm, what if they were white just because.. well just because.. Would kill a bit of the character, their backstory and so on.
If people really want some African or non white American/British or whatever heroes, then make some, don't change some.
Why? How many Africans were where in Norse mythology? Okay yes, comic book, but still. If would be like if you made a comic book based on African mythology and made on of the characters white/Chinese/Indian for the sake of having them there. I know it's not a good example but lets take Vixen or Storm, what if they were white just because.. well just because.. Would kill a bit of the character, their backstory and so on.
If people really want some African or non white American/British or whatever heroes, then make some, don't change some.
So this is racism in America. You guys are lucky. Two weekends ago a well known political youth leader of an 99.9% black political party said all whites are thieves and should be treated as such (Our president was there and just remained silent). The same guy would sing songs about killing white farmers and he says the opposition leader (a white woman) dances like an ape.
That's racism in our country and then nothing is done about it. Instead they call him a fine young man (he?s 35 years old!)
Like I said, you guys are damn lucky but then again not living in Africa makes you damn lucky.
Oh and I agree with Moviebob.
That's racism in our country and then nothing is done about it. Instead they call him a fine young man (he?s 35 years old!)
Like I said, you guys are damn lucky but then again not living in Africa makes you damn lucky.
Oh and I agree with Moviebob.
Sorry dude. You lost me when you brought up slavery as an excuse for racism.
I'm with Martin Luther King, Jr. on this one. I dream of an America where people are judged not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Thanks to folks with your mindset, we will NEVER get there, because skin color will ALWAYS be something we need to have a double-standard over.
I only thank you for admitting that you have a double-standard.
I'm with Martin Luther King, Jr. on this one. I dream of an America where people are judged not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Thanks to folks with your mindset, we will NEVER get there, because skin color will ALWAYS be something we need to have a double-standard over.
I only thank you for admitting that you have a double-standard.
Huh, no mention of the moors, corsairs, mongols or any of the other buggers who decided that the sundered and disorganized Europe left in the wake of the Roman collapse was a great place to fetch slaves or exterminating people for giggles, or that whole slavery and serfdom thing we had going on by which the vast majority of white people were enslaved by the ruling classes for thousands of years.
Oh well, my opinion is unchanged with respects to the casting of the black lad as the comic book character, he does not seem to look like the character he is supposed to depict, though it's good to hear that he delivered a good performance.
Oh well, my opinion is unchanged with respects to the casting of the black lad as the comic book character, he does not seem to look like the character he is supposed to depict, though it's good to hear that he delivered a good performance.
Bob, this was a very good video segment that I felt really drew in the Big Picture. Focal point: Thor - zoom out - lack of minority roles in American cinema - zoom out - America's history of racism. I'm not sure if it's because of the tone or quality of content on The Jimquisition, but lately I find myself liking your videos even more. I'm glad I watched it.
No, that doesn't make sense. Nice try with the MLK Jr quote though. I'm sure you convince a lot of gullible people.
Uh huh. Even when there are no opportunities for black actors because films are written about, by, and for white adult males, produced by white adult males, and funded by white adult males. Clearly, we shouldn't go out of our way to tell stories where black characters are present, because, if they were worthy of character, they'd have roles in movies - despite nobody casting them.Calbeck said:
No, that doesn't make sense. Nice try with the MLK Jr quote though. I'm sure you convince a lot of gullible people.
Love the video, this time more than most.
I remember watching MASH reruns and playing the game of "how often will the same asian actors show up playing differnt roles" game. It's not racist, it was just a reality they didn't have an endless supply of asian actors to supply endless side roles. It's pretty much the same here: there probably just weren't that many good perfomances from the Asian actors that showed up to play Goku while the talent pool that showed up to try for the minor role of the doorman in big gold armor was so small, they needed to go in a different direction to get the performance they wanted. We approach things like we could get any actor we want to fill any role, but in reality, not every actor is jumping to get into comic movies and we have to accept the best of who shows up, which sometimes means making a minor cosmetic change.
Addmittedly, I''ve spent a lot of time in my life around blind people, so a lot of the color thing is beyond me. Baring major icons, or characters whose identity is tied strongly to their skin color (I'd question a white Luke Cage or Black Panther) I think the performance is where characters should be judged, not their fit to a comic started 40 years ago.
Seriously, is there anyone that gives enough of a shit about Heimdal to complain they changed their favorite character?
I remember watching MASH reruns and playing the game of "how often will the same asian actors show up playing differnt roles" game. It's not racist, it was just a reality they didn't have an endless supply of asian actors to supply endless side roles. It's pretty much the same here: there probably just weren't that many good perfomances from the Asian actors that showed up to play Goku while the talent pool that showed up to try for the minor role of the doorman in big gold armor was so small, they needed to go in a different direction to get the performance they wanted. We approach things like we could get any actor we want to fill any role, but in reality, not every actor is jumping to get into comic movies and we have to accept the best of who shows up, which sometimes means making a minor cosmetic change.
Addmittedly, I''ve spent a lot of time in my life around blind people, so a lot of the color thing is beyond me. Baring major icons, or characters whose identity is tied strongly to their skin color (I'd question a white Luke Cage or Black Panther) I think the performance is where characters should be judged, not their fit to a comic started 40 years ago.
Seriously, is there anyone that gives enough of a shit about Heimdal to complain they changed their favorite character?
Generally I agree. I might feel different if they had cast a black man playing in a historical take on the Norse gods, but its a friggen super hero movie.
Though I do think the idea of people being outraged over race swapping is confined to which races are involved. I dont recall any one getting upset over Toruk suddenly being, well not Native American.
Though I do think the idea of people being outraged over race swapping is confined to which races are involved. I dont recall any one getting upset over Toruk suddenly being, well not Native American.
I should probably mention that I haven't seen the movie, simply because I thought the idea behind it was terrible compared to the mythology stories I grew up reading about.
The only thing there is to discuss, is whether or not the actor is better than whomever they could have gotten. The same goes for all the actors that were cast.
The only thing there is to discuss, is whether or not the actor is better than whomever they could have gotten. The same goes for all the actors that were cast.
You're still trying to enforce unrealistic ideals on actual results.honestdiscussioner said:
Let's look at it this way: There are literally, undeniably less roles suited for ethnic minorities in popular culture than there are for white people. And this is undeniably the result of a long, extensive history of ethnic oppression. The ideal, theoretically logical thing to do would be to make every role either culturally correct or completely interchangeable. But in practice, the latter ensures that no artistic liberty can be taken that doesn't suit all races (a white Malcolm X?) while the former makes an outstanding number of roles skewed toward the ethnically dominant. The imperfect concession that we make is to allow ethnic minorities to play traditionally white roles, because there just aren't that many roles they're suited for.
Bob, in essence, making excuses like this is as bad as what you complain about. Equality is what a lot of us fight for. Not making excuses, not 'getting back' at someone for something that happened 20, 50, 100 years ago.
Revenge isn't Equality. Special Treatment isn't Equality.
And no, making excuses for a double standard because *you* think 'getting back at whitey' is okay is *not okay*. It actually undermines it by polarizing otherwise reasonable people. It makes people stop listening when pundits say it's okay for discrimination...as long as it's *reverse* descrimination.
I loved his portrayal of Heimdall. Loved it a lot. He's an incredible actor and I truly hope his career takes off.
But.
Let me pose you a question:
Let's say *I* made a movie, and I depicted say...Mohammed. As a White Person.
I think I'd be burned alive in my house and compared to Hitler.
However, I sincerely doubt any believer in Norse Mythology (they exist) is thrilled to death that one of their Pantheon was just depicted as being from Africa.
Make what excuses you want to, but we will never have equality here or anywhere unless everyone is *equal* instead of 'special'.
Revenge isn't Equality. Special Treatment isn't Equality.
And no, making excuses for a double standard because *you* think 'getting back at whitey' is okay is *not okay*. It actually undermines it by polarizing otherwise reasonable people. It makes people stop listening when pundits say it's okay for discrimination...as long as it's *reverse* descrimination.
I loved his portrayal of Heimdall. Loved it a lot. He's an incredible actor and I truly hope his career takes off.
But.
Let me pose you a question:
Let's say *I* made a movie, and I depicted say...Mohammed. As a White Person.
I think I'd be burned alive in my house and compared to Hitler.
However, I sincerely doubt any believer in Norse Mythology (they exist) is thrilled to death that one of their Pantheon was just depicted as being from Africa.
Make what excuses you want to, but we will never have equality here or anywhere unless everyone is *equal* instead of 'special'.
I wasn't referring to any posts about Europe nor do I think any nation has "moved passed racism." I was making a statement directly about the video and it stands: the slavery portion of Bob's argument is irrelevant and devalues the rest of it. Also what does Europe have to do with anything I said? I'm Canadian.Sean951 said:
MLP is no way a perfect world in my opinion.
And The Last Airbender sucked not just because of the actors ethnicity, but because it just generally sucked and ruined the series.
And The Last Airbender sucked not just because of the actors ethnicity, but because it just generally sucked and ruined the series.
The only part of that post thar I have to nitpick on is the "america, not norway" bit. Have you ever HEARD a finnish/swedish/norweigian accent in person? It's impossibly idiosyncratic. Even the best pf actors would have some issue with it. That's why the movie is set in the US.Rabidkitten said:
"Uh huh. Even when there are no opportunities for black actors because films are written about, by, and for white adult males, produced by white adult males, and funded by white adult males. Clearly, we shouldn't go out of our way to tell stories where black characters are present, because, if they were worthy of character, they'd have roles in movies - despite nobody casting them.
No, that doesn't make sense. Nice try with the MLK Jr quote though. I'm sure you convince a lot of gullible people."
And so do you. Make more movies revolving around black historical figures. I'll certainly see them. Don't complain until you try to fix the issue.
I stood in line for hours to see the movie about the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. So did a lot of people.
Please, don't try to claim a moral high ground. I don't agree on this issue because I think taking a member of an actual Religion and changing his Race simply for the sake of grandstanding and producing controversy is wrong. And your complaints about Hollywood don't change that fact at all.
Seriously, man- I'm about as far from racism as it's possible to be and be Human, but I don't think ignoring the bits of history that don't fit your little world-view, and supporting a double-standard because it fits your personal opinion, is a Good Thing. I think it hurts real equality to have people ignore reality in favor of revenge.
Ironic- people ***** about how 'white people' changed or ignored history. Yet as many here have pointed out- what, it's just 'white people'? Really? There's no awkward history for any other nation or race?
Who was big in *selling* slaves to the English? Hm? Ever taken a good hard look at the *actual* history of Africa and the Middle East? No, probably not- it would undermine your belief.
How many 'African Warlords' who are starving children to death *right now* are Caucasian? Can you name any?
But shh shhh can't bring that up it undermines the argument.
No, that doesn't make sense. Nice try with the MLK Jr quote though. I'm sure you convince a lot of gullible people."
And so do you. Make more movies revolving around black historical figures. I'll certainly see them. Don't complain until you try to fix the issue.
I stood in line for hours to see the movie about the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. So did a lot of people.
Please, don't try to claim a moral high ground. I don't agree on this issue because I think taking a member of an actual Religion and changing his Race simply for the sake of grandstanding and producing controversy is wrong. And your complaints about Hollywood don't change that fact at all.
Seriously, man- I'm about as far from racism as it's possible to be and be Human, but I don't think ignoring the bits of history that don't fit your little world-view, and supporting a double-standard because it fits your personal opinion, is a Good Thing. I think it hurts real equality to have people ignore reality in favor of revenge.
Ironic- people ***** about how 'white people' changed or ignored history. Yet as many here have pointed out- what, it's just 'white people'? Really? There's no awkward history for any other nation or race?
Who was big in *selling* slaves to the English? Hm? Ever taken a good hard look at the *actual* history of Africa and the Middle East? No, probably not- it would undermine your belief.
How many 'African Warlords' who are starving children to death *right now* are Caucasian? Can you name any?
But shh shhh can't bring that up it undermines the argument.