The Dark Souls PC version controversy.

[burningdragoon]

Where it was made for first is a red herring. It doesn't matter. It isn't on the Xbox. It is on the PC.

I am paying for a PC game.

Now the PC has simple standards that the console doesn't have to deal with. But guess what. Just because you came from the console doesn't mean you can skip over this.

You are applying console standards on what is a PC game. Not going to fly. If I can only play it with a controller, then not a good port. It may work like on the console, but controllers arn't the standard .

Console to PC ports dont have to be better. Just up to standard.

I am paying for a PC game. I want a PC game.


Okay, let's do it this way.


play it with Keyboard and mouse. - agree
Rebind my keys. - agree
Change my resolution. - disagree (for the most part)
See the game in more than 30 fps. - disagree (for the most part)
Have an FoV that doesn't give me a headache (or give me a slider) - disagree (for the most part)
Remove xbox controller related instructions (Press Start to begin) - agree

Just 2 things to add. If I primarily played on the PC, then those disagrees might be agrees, and might not, but I would still consider the control issues be more important, and in this case Dark Souls PC is generally a failure.

Second, if the 23min resolution fix really is as simple as it was (as in, doesn't cause any issues or something... dunno why it would, but if it did), then yes, it's also generally a failure in that regard too.

 

[veloper]

Meh. I'll wait for the patch. Maybe I'll be generous and buy it even when there's only a fan-patch solving most of the issues here.
I still expect to get a good game even if the devs are "new" to it all.

 

[Ildanach]

Spoiler

There is a certain truth to the example angry birds but certain game types work well on almost all platforms, especially when PC has access to controllers.
Driving games, Fighting games, platformers tend to be highly playable etc etc.

Or are we talking about graphical fidelity? Some lip service menu options and maybe an actual new texture pack?
I think GFWL and keyboard and mouse being borked is the worst part.
But apart from that I haven't got much in the way of understanding what you mean by "competeing on PC's level"
Sorry I am dense sometimes.

Spoiler

EDIT: Just saw your recent post to burningdragoon and yes that is reasonable and I tend to agree its just that I have a different set of standards that are lower than this due to my perspective. Its my opinion those options are nice but not necessary others think they are essential and this is fine by me.

I want to focus on the 2 bold the parts.

When i judge the graphics of a game I judge it compared to the other games I see and play. Without the right options to fine tune my experience, it can destroy the aesthetic of the game. Graphics are just a tool. Aesthetic are what they are trying to relay with that tool. And ultimately the experience they are trying to convey and that you enjoy.

There is a part of this that is graphical fidelity, but mainly it is an issue with understanding how I am going to be playing their game.

That is where they are going to have to compete with other PC games. How to get their experience across.

Fair enough. If you can spot pixelation a mile away then its fair to say it looks like ass.
I just have to say that I disagree with what constitutes a base line for a port.
Don't get me wrong I love having all the options turned way up.
I just have a lower baseline for what an acceptable port is than a lot of people.
I also disagree that PC and Console gaming is different its just developing styles and some genres cannot be done well when crossed onto the other platform, PC however can alleviate these problems consoles generally cannot because of support for peripherals.

 

[TallestGargoyle]

Everyone complaining about 30fps and the resolution...

Actually sit down and play the game. I have no problems staring at a monitor to play the game.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Remove xbox controller related instructions (Press Start to begin)

Everytime I see that makes me want to break into the developer's studio and rewire all their keyboards for a different layout. See how they like it.

 

[Ildanach]

I think all PC gamers should buy this game. Show your support. It is their first PC title. If you show them that PC is a viable platform, they'll do a better job next time, because now they have experience.

I think just buying it won't be enough we would have to hound them day and night about the problems if we ever wanted them fixed. Sales plus feedback might convince them.
Piracy and tantrum throwing won't.

 

[Ildanach]

I think all PC gamers should buy this game. Show your support. It is their first PC title. If you show them that PC is a viable platform, they'll do a better job next time, because now they have experience.

I think just buying it won't be enough we would have to hound them day and night about the problems if we ever wanted them fixed. Sales plus feedback might convince them.
Piracy and tantrum throwing won't.

There is truth in that.

2K games was tied to a lot of controversy on this issue with both Borderlands and The Darkness 2.

This however resulted in a newfound respect for their PC market going above and beyond for the release of the PC version of Borderlands 2.

Question is if it will take them 2 games of major issues before they listen to the market.

Which is why people should keep on trying I personally don't care about most of these issues, they are not a problem for me but I understand them a little thanks to Totalbiscuit.
Which is why I keep on making it clear that most of the things I talk about is my preference.
Hopefully people can get the patched Dark Souls that they want.

 

[Jynthor]

I think all PC gamers should buy this game. Show your support. It is their first PC title. If you show them that PC is a viable platform, they'll do a better job next time, because now they have experience.

I tried playing it, no, just no, I don't want them getting anywhere near a PC ever again.

 

[Ildanach]

I wonder if they could even count copies sold on Steam, or any digital platform.
Because if they don't this is all an exercise in futility :/
Well for anyone who cared.

 

[chadachada123]

I'm going to mirror Jim Sterling's recent video:

Buy the game (because it's fun as fuck) and then ***** continuously about the problems. Be honest: It's a great fucking game, but a terrible port. That will get From and Namco's attention AND respect.

I can guarantee, though, that the game is absolutely worth $40, even with its issues, because it's just a great fucking game.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

I wonder if they could even count copies sold on Steam, or any digital platform.
Because if they don't this is all an exercise in futility :/
Well for anyone who cared.

The steam global statistics page puts it at #10 right now at approximately 10,000 players.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Even gabe isn't "nice" enough to migrate to linux, unless microsoft turns windows into a video converter it will never happen.

Erm, Valve are already working on a Linux version of the Source engine. There was an article on here about it a while ago, the results of the testing were pretty impressive. Here's the link to the article http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118882-Valves-Source-Engine-Runs-Better-on-Linux-Than-Windows

That doesn't mean he's switching Steam to Linux, they're just porting it over, the same thing they did with Macs. And if Steam did switch over to Linux completely and stopped supporting Windows well that would be up there in terms of stupidest ideas in history.

It'd move a lot of gamers over to Linux. Linux may require some technical knowhow and some googling, but most PC Gamers are used to that.

 

[Ildanach]

anc[is]

I wonder if they could even count copies sold on Steam, or any digital platform.
Because if they don't this is all an exercise in futility :/
Well for anyone who cared.

The steam global statistics page puts it at #10 right now at approximately 10,000 players.

But will the publisher look at that?
I think everyone should have brought boxed copies >.>
(Well I believe that boxed copies should actually have almost no DRM but that is just unreasonable since Steam is so much better /sarcasm)

 

[deathzero021]

hmm i was gonna buy this one Steam but now... not too sure. maybe if it goes on sale but not full price. also i won't rage over low fps and resolution but i will scratch my head by the concept of locking the fps... i mean i just don't get it. as a PC developer myself, it just doesn't make ANY sense. i don't think it's a "lack of experience" at all since all games are built and tested on PC's before ever being playable on a console. It seems to me that this port was made in the absolute lowest amount of time and money. what they did was simply take the 360 version as it is and sell it for the PC at a higher price. i know what this is, it's bad business. They didn't add or change a single thing to fit the PC because they didn't want to spend a dime on it. This is why you need a controller and the game runs on the limitations of a 360. well i hope they learn something from this and it probably is for the best if people ***** about this because game publishers really need to pay attention to the standards of a market they're about to sell products in.

 

[Dansen]

Damn this is just sad and pathetic. The PC players get DLC content half a year before console players, and still you complain. I could almost cry.

From Soft doesn't deserve this. I still urge PC players who signed the petition to buy the game, even at a reduced price, you owe them that much.

 

[Darkmantle]

I've said it before, and I will say it again. I hope FS learns from this, and never releases in the PC again. No sense trying to appease some people, especially when you've gone out of your way to try and give them what they want, and they throw it back in your face.

Perhaps yes,they should never bother with PC again if they are about to keep doing the same mistakes over and over with every game they release on the platform,and carry one game's problems (Ninja Blade) to the next one (Dark Souls).

No sense for costumers buying things that doesn't work as they are supposed,especially after they informed the developer in the past about what these mistakes were and why they were mistakes,and the developer years later still is so stubborn to keep porting games the same way and replicating the exact same technical issues again and again,even if last time they did their game averaged 6 out of 10 in press's reviews.

Do yourself a favour and search on Google "Ninja Blade PC port".

The exact same issues Ninja Blade had in 2009 that made the game to score 6/10 average are replicated on Dark Souls,like nobody told them in the past that these issues broke their game.
And it's even more ironic that back in 2009 a "modder" fixed Ninja Blade's resolution problem by just changing a line on the .ini file of the game with wordpad.
History repeats itself like From Software didn't learnt anything from Ninja Blade,pretending it never existed.

Well if you guys think they make shitty ports, don't beg them for one next time. They didn't lie to you. You knew what you were going to get they TOLD you what you were going to get, but you act all surprised and offended when you get it.

It would be different if they came out with the port themselves and wanted you to buy it, as with ninja blade. When ninja blade failed, they realized they were shitty at porting to PC, so they were not going to do it again. They had learned their lesson. But then everyone started coming out of the woodwork talking about how much they would love it if they got a port. So they did it anyway to please their "fans".

It just seems to me that one of the rudest things you can do is beg for something, and when it's given to you, ***** and moan and cry foul. Especially when you start saying they did it on purpose to spite you, like the OP, or that they hate their fans, like many others in this and other threads.

They didn't want to do it, because they knew it was going to be bad. The very people complaining are the same ones that told them they should do it anyway, and that they would find support on the PC.

There was no trickery involved, and they do not deserve the bile and hatred many throw at them. They are obviously just bad at PC ports. If you don't like it, stop requesting they make them.

 

[Darkmantle]

Basically the situation right there. They gave you the port you asked for, to the best of their ability, and you turn around and throw it in their faces. What did you expect from a developer who TOLD you that they were not good at PC ports. If I was in their shoes, my response would be "I tried my best, you don't like it? Fuck you".

You'd be an AMAZING businessman. I want to hire you and make you my head of public relations.

That's a really good summary of the response of PC Gamers, too. I also like to put imaginary, spazzy words in the mouths of my opponents. It makes it easier for me to hand wave them as ridiculous cartoons.

No it isn't akin to that. The developers told you what to expect, they were very upfront about their inexperience.

I don't understand this logic. So what? So what if they warned people? If the end product is bad, why is it NOT ALRIGHT to say "that's bad", and not buy it? Without this "wakka wakka entitled crybabies" narrative kicking in? Do we just have to buy it then, whether or not we like the look of it? "Oh gosh, that...didn't turn out well, did it? It looks really bad. Well, you DID warn me! Here's my money!".

What a curious interpretation of the customer/business dynamic.

Really? Cause I'll take the job.

And it matters that they warned people, they was no trickery involved. You knew what you were going to get. They are obviously bad at ports. If you don't appreciate the effort, or you think it's just too low quality for you, fine don't buy the damn thing.

Again, I hope From Soft never ports anything else to the PC, 2 reasons:

1.They are obviously unskilled at it (like they told everyone, didn't stop anyone from signing the petition though did it? ) and it shows
2.They gave it their best shot, and if that's not good enough for PC gamers, they should stop trying to appease a group that they cannot hope to please.

I'd rather they focus on making quality games on the consoles where they will continue to be appreciated.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

But then everyone started coming out of the woodwork talking about how much they would love it if they got a port. So they did it anyway to please their "fans".

Again, this is a bit of a twee narrative. They did it to capitalize on a significant body of potential customers. When companies release updates for free, it's something they've done to "please the fans". When companies develop and deliver a product at a significant price point, they are just doing business.

I do appreciate that there is no trickery involved, and I agree with you 100% on that count. I think they were surprisingly honest, really. I also think it's disingenuous to imply all this happened because they were trying to be lovely blokes and do us a solid.

Really? Cause I'll take the job.

Well you can't have it!