The Dark Souls PC version controversy.

[newwiseman]

Nope Direct X is a service that interfaces with a verity of Graphics cards on behalf of the windows OS and makes things easier on Developers by them only having to write the Direct X calls. The Xbox (and all other consoles) uses a very small selection of a couple graphics cards that for the most part use the same API and thus can be written for directly. That is how Consoles can out perform computers with the same or even slightly better specs; consoles don't have to deal with Direct X, operating system overhead, other tasks, or already assigned memory.

I dunno, there are a few sources that suggest the 360 does indeed use DirectX. Eurogamer did an article on how it might be throttling performance [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-directx-360-performance-blog-entry] and this article points to the 360 using an "advanced version of DirectX 9" as well. [http://www.joystiq.com/2006/08/24/xbox-360-cant-run-directx-10-confirms-ati/]

But then again, this article discusses the performance overhead DirectX incurs on PCs, but not consoles (including the 360). [http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/03/16/farewell-to-directx/1] I'm thinking that it's compatible with DirectX (which would make sense), but it's since been abandoned by developers as the 360 has gotten a little long in the tooth, hardware wise.

Well Microsoft does develop both Direct X and the Xbox, it wouldn't surprise me if the xbox's api has a slim version of direct x built in, regardless the game was made for PS3 originally and would have to have the graphics calls rewritten; or worse emulated.

 

[josemlopes]

This is a sign of a shit port when it takes a single person a couple hours to fix an obvious problem after the game has been worked on for months by a development crew.

The game ended up being the same as in the consoles, it isnt a good port but it isnt a bad one either (a bad port is Saints Row 2)

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

The game ended up being the same as in the consoles, it isnt a good port but it isnt a bad one either (a bad port is Saints Row 2)

I've heard from a couple of people that it's a little buggy, but PC Gamer's review claims it's a bad port only in that it lacks typical PC features (which we already knew it would) and isn't buggy or prone to crashing. Is this accurate then? I'm hearing conflicting things and I don't want to drop money on something that's going to be buggy, but if all it is is that it barely has any graphics settings, needs a pad and is locked at 30FPS, then I don't care; it's worth it. Hardly makes the game unplayable for me.

 

[Darkmantle]

I've said it before, and I will say it again. I hope FS learns from this, and never releases in the PC again. No sense trying to appease some people, especially when you've gone out of your way to try and give them what they want, and they throw it back in your face.

Perhaps yes,they should never bother with PC again if they are about to keep doing the same mistakes over and over with every game they release on the platform,and carry one game's problems (Ninja Blade) to the next one (Dark Souls).

No sense for costumers buying things that doesn't work as they are supposed,especially after they informed the developer in the past about what these mistakes were and why they were mistakes,and the developer years later still is so stubborn to keep porting games the same way and replicating the exact same technical issues again and again,even if last time they did their game averaged 6 out of 10 in press's reviews.

Do yourself a favour and search on Google "Ninja Blade PC port".

The exact same issues Ninja Blade had in 2009 that made the game to score 6/10 average are replicated on Dark Souls,like nobody told them in the past that these issues broke their game.
And it's even more ironic that back in 2009 a "modder" fixed Ninja Blade's resolution problem by just changing a line on the .ini file of the game with wordpad.
History repeats itself like From Software didn't learnt anything from Ninja Blade,pretending it never existed.

Well if you guys think they make shitty ports, don't beg them for one next time. They didn't lie to you. You knew what you were going to get they TOLD you what you were going to get, but you act all surprised and offended when you get it.

It would be different if they came out with the port themselves and wanted you to buy it, as with ninja blade. When ninja blade failed, they realized they were shitty at porting to PC, so they were not going to do it again. They had learned their lesson. But then everyone started coming out of the woodwork talking about how much they would love it if they got a port. So they did it anyway to please their "fans".

It just seems to me that one of the rudest things you can do is beg for something, and when it's given to you, ***** and moan and cry foul. Especially when you start saying they did it on purpose to spite you, like the OP, or that they hate their fans, like many others in this thread and others.

They didn't want to do it, because they knew it was going to be bad. The very people complaining are the same ones that told them they should do it anyway, and that they would find support on the PC.

There was no trickery involved, and they do not deserve the bile and hatred many throw at them. They are obviously just bad at PC ports. If you don't like it, stop requesting they make them.

Yeah they knew the product would be bad. So bad that it took a amateur 23 minutes to fix what they couldn't be bothered fixing (or didn't know how. Intent or incompetence. Take your pick).

Im sorry if they cant port the game, then give it to someone who can. Like an amateur!

I am not privileged that they decided to bring their game to my platform. I am a customer. And I am not going to buy that is the result of either incompetent or lazy work.

I am not going to kiss their ass and call it icecream because "You asked for this game". I asked for a port I asked for a certain amount of quality. Nothing unreasonable. Yet I am the bad guy for having minimum standards to what i decide to use my money on.

They messed up. Not the customers here.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/08/modder-fixes-dark-souls-pc-resolution-problem-minutes-after-release/

""Durante notes that he started developing a basic "interception DLL framework" for the mod in the week leading up to the game's release.""

Firstly, it took him a week

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/20512-modder-removes-resolution-lock-for-dark-souls-prepare-to-die-edition/

""Durante still has some tweaks to perform, but it does work. Just be sure to disable AA and motion blur in the game beforehand""

Secondly, it is playable, not fully functional, he is going to keep working to finish it.

So it wasn't 23 minutes total work, it was a week for a programmer of unknown skill, he could be a pro for all you or I know, and he isn't even done yet.

So with those facts cleared up, I'll reiterate. They didn't want to do the port, you guys wanted them to. I'm sorry it didn't live up to your expectations, but they fucking told you it wouldn't, and they didn't want to do it. It's not about "privileged" It's about appreciating that they tried to give you what you asked for. You know, instead of throwing a temper tantrum, like many here seem to be doing.

 

[Darkmantle]

But then everyone started coming out of the woodwork talking about how much they would love it if they got a port. So they did it anyway to please their "fans".

Again, this is a bit of a twee narrative. They did it to capitalize on a significant body of potential customers. When companies release updates for free, it's something they've done to "please the fans". When companies develop and deliver a product at a significant price point, they are just doing business.

I do appreciate that there is no trickery involved, and I agree with you 100% on that count. I think they were surprisingly honest, really. I also think it's disingenuous to imply all this happened because they were trying to be lovely blokes and do us a solid.

Really? Cause I'll take the job.

Well you can't have it!

You can use as much business language as you like, that still doesn't change the fact that they did it because you all asked for it. And if a company trying to do what it's customers want is considered wrong, I don't wanna be right.

The only thing they (and Myself as well for that matter) are going to take from this is "don't make any more PC ports because we are bad at it and PC gamers hate anything not perfect". And, hopefully, no amount of petitions will change their mind again.

And that shouldn't be a problem for you, I mean if they can't make a good port, why make a port at all?

And retracting a job offer in this economy? Why I oughtta.....

 

[Simonoly]

So From are actively sabotaging the PC release because they don't want console owners to get jealous?! I, just. How can you think that makes sense in anyway?

Ah god. This polarisation of the gaming community based on preferred platform really needs to stop. It's seriously beginning to make my balls ache.

Captcha: Mumbo jumbo. Oh my, how appropriate.

 

[Darkmantle]

Do you think it breaks their little hearts to see this rush-job get hammered? Do you think they're delusional enough to think "Oh yeah, we're proud of this. Truly a monumental piece of work."?

Those really are the only two options.

I mean, it's not like From might read reactions like this and say "well, fuck that shit. PC gamers are a whiny, entitled bunch who demanded a console game and then shit all over it. Back to consoles, you guys!" No, they must either feel complete shame or pride in their work!

I didn't say those are "the" two options, I just threw some of the options out there. And then I asked the person how much they think this getting offended thing matters when it comes against making money.

"Yeah, fuck that shit, Ching (possible name of someone in From, just a guess), we did the best we could and can do no better. Time to abandon the platform." Nobody with some sense in their heads would give a shit about a non-effort getting bashed for being a non-effort. So yes, it takes pride in a piece of shit to be offended when the piece of shit gets pointed out as what it is.

By the way, I wouldn't buy shit from a developer who uses the word "entitled" in this way. That is, by now, close to being the sign of a buffoon.

Well... They did say the success of this port would determine whether or not they would bother developing for the PC again... So if they don't turn the expected or minimum profit, they probably will say "fuck this" and stay on consoles.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

snip[/color]

It's quite obvious that those complaints would be without merit, given the hardware limits inherent in the current generation of consoles.

If, however, console hardware was superior to PC hardware, not only would those points stop being invalid, they'd become actively valid.

 

[peruvianskys]

Seriously, some people just need to grow up. It's not some god damned conspiracy to sabotage PC gaming, and it sounds crazy if you think it is. It's just 30 fps, console players deal with it all the time, we don't gush tears of blood when something doesn't come in 60 fps.

It's not my fault that your dated, inefficient hardware has given you far lower standards when it comes to how games should run. It's a shame you can't realize how much you're missing. If you had experience with games that actually ran well and utilized advancements in the medium made, I don't know, seven years ago, then you'd be upset too.

I refuse to accept that it is "elitist" or "whiny" to demand video games on my PC run like they were made in this decade. People who inexplicably stick to objectively worse technology can play whatever stretched-out slideshows they want, but I for one will not feel bad for asking that a PC port adhere to the standards set by even the most middling PC games.

2.They gave it their best shot, and if that's not good enough for PC gamers, they should stop trying to appease a group that they cannot hope to please.

They could please us by being competent at their jobs. We're not asking for the moon here; we're asking that they present a port that falls even in the middle range of adequate performance on modern PCs.

Also what kind of fucking bizarre line is "They tried their best?" These aren't kindergarten students making macaroni art; we do not exist, as consumers, to bolster the confidence of businesses. They deserve to be criticized for creating a shitty product and they deserve to fail for taking on a project they couldn't possibly have completed in a satisfactory manner. You never, ever ask the consumers to have sympathy for the poor, beleaguered corporation.

 

[TrevHead]

People are complaining about the resolution, but that isnt my complaint with the game. For me the game is completely unplayable because there is no way to know how to work the controls on the keyboard and mouse without spending a sizeable amount of time memorizing what console controller button correlates to what keyboard stroke.

Its ridiculous that I had to exit out of my initial playthrough by using alt/control/delete so that I could check what button correllated to the start button. I wanted to know that, becuase I needed to use the start button to check in game what button fucking correlated to the Y button. Which I never figured out because it isnt listed, so I was forced to randomly mash buttons on my keyboard until I turned off my computer.

Have you browed the steam forums? as someppl say they have rebinded their keys, writing it down might also help so you don't have to alt-tab.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

You can use as much business language as you like, that still doesn't change the fact that they did it because you all asked for it. And if a company trying to do what it's customers want is considered wrong, I don't wanna be right.

The only thing they (and Myself as well for that matter) are going to take from this is "don't make any more PC ports because we are bad at it and PC gamers hate anything not perfect". And, hopefully, no amount of petitions will change their mind again.

And that shouldn't be a problem for you, I mean if they can't make a good port, why make a port at all?

And retracting a job offer in this economy? Why I oughtta.....

They did it because we asked for it, yes. A market emerged, and they moved to capitalize on demand for their product.Cheers to them for making a product good enough to generate demand. Jeers to them for failing to capitalize on the opportunity they were given by tailoring the product to the market.

"PC Gamers" most certainly do not "hate anything that is not perfect", at least not in any collective sense. But I imagine they do hate things that are actively shitty. I think that's reasonable.

And no, it's not a problem for me. If they can't port it properly, they shouldn't be porting it at all. Lesson learned for everyone I suppose. It's a pity about the GFWL...I likely would have picked it up down the road in a sale out of curiosity if nothing else, but I absolutely cannot be buggered to endure that nonsense.

 

[Zipa]

The problem is that From had to change all the native graphics api calls to direct x api to make a port

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 360 use Direct X? I heard the name "Xbox" came about because "Direct X Box" sounded stupid.

I'm not saying that developing for the 360 and PC is exactly the same, just that I thought they both used Direct X.

To be honest, I'd be perfectly OK with it being exactly the same as the console version, with the same resolution and frame rate as long as it ran at least as well as the console version... but apparently it's full of bugs and feels horrible to play. I'm not going to drop £30 I barely have on something that doesn't work properly even if I did "ask for it" because that would be silly. If I'm going to spend money on a game I want to be certain that it will, at the very least, work properly and so far I haven't heard good things.

The prototype Xbox was in fact built from some dell laptops by the DirectX team which is as you say the name comes from.

 

[Something Amyss]

i know right? go figure

what about the controls sir, hows the port handle, that's what i wanna know

It's madness!

I wonder how the controls work, as well.

 

[Lunar Templar]

i know right? go figure

what about the controls sir, hows the port handle, that's what i wanna know

It's madness!

I wonder how the controls work, as well.

i heard not well, but i also heard Darksiders 2 looked kinda crappy, here to say, on my PC the 'texture issues' don't exist

 

[Darkmantle]

"PC Gamers" most certainly do not "hate anything that is not perfect", at least not in any collective sense. But I imagine they do hate things that are actively shitty. I think that's reasonable.

It's not actively shitty. I watched someone play it on the PC without any of the fixes just recently, and it looks pretty damn good. 30fps and all. Main issue was bad keybindings as far as I can tell, but I'd bet most PC gamers have a controller on hand anyway. If that's all it takes to make a game "actively shit" you are way too high strung.

 

[Erttheking]

"throws hands up" they warned you that the port would be shitty, what do you want me to say?

 

[Erttheking]

"throws hands up" they warned you that the port would be shitty, what do you want me to say?

Warning us that it's going to be shitty doesn't work to alleviate the shitty quality of it, you do realise that, right? They could've done several different things, like giving more than 2 people more than 6 months to port the game, or outsourcing it. They decided to rush it, the quality ended up shit, and they're getting hammered for it. Whether or not they warned anyone is completely irrelevant to how much effort they put into this.

What do I want you to say? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

...so if you order a pie, and the cook warns you that it's going to taste like shit and you order it anyway, when you get it and take a bite and it tastes like shit, you're going to criticize the cook for it tasting like shit even though he warned you that that was what you were getting? What were you expecting? That it would magically stop being shit if you waited long enough? Because from my point of view, that's pretty much what's happening.