The difference between PC and Console FPS games.

[CleverNickname]

... and the aiming limitation leading to simpler level design is just one example. Context-sensitive or button-based cover is a crutch; regenerating health is a crutch because even the simple task of looking around for healthkits is too much to ask. Anyone who ever claimed it's to improve the action is a liar and a moron-on-purpose.

Hell, I'm starting to believe that all these console shooters with all the terrorists right in front of you is the reason nobody saves my mutilated ass in L4D2, because they're not bloody used to turning around. (That, or they play with their sound off...)

Nevermind the limited arsenal of weapons. Sure, it makes sense in military shooters that you're not carrying around a rocket launcher with 50 ammo, but it gets infuriatingly stupid when the success of one niche leads to the blanket application of a game mechanic that has no right to be in anything that's not set in present-day (or 20 minutes into the future) military service.
At the end of the day it doesn't even matter that it's guns in shooters (or any other flaw you can think of), it's simply this intellectually bankrupt notion of "Game X had mechanics A, B & C and was successful, let's put A&C into Game Y, because duuuuurrrrr and/or money".
Morons making money off shit is bad enough, but call me crazy, I'm not particularily fond of buying repackaged shit off 2nd-generation-morons. It is much more satisfying to whine about it on the internet at 5:39 in the morning, than play any of that garbage.

That felt good. Good night, gentlemen.

 

[TrevHead]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. PC Gaming and Console Gaming aren't mutually exclusive. And to any PC elitists out there, you (hopefully) wouldn't judge someone for wanting to eat spaghetti with a fork and spoon rather than a fork and knife, as they both have their own merits, and everyone has their own opinion, (best analogy ever) so why judge someone because they prefer a pad to M&K? And please don't accuse me of console bias.

Can we leave the elitist name calling out of this thread pls, it just derails the debate about the games to fanboyism just like every other PC/ Console thread.

Besides you are reading too much between the lines, as ive said before Ive got no ill will towards console players who prefer pad FPS games.

...can't games just be about having fun, instead of ridiculous contests between consoles/PC

I never really saw the huge difference between the two myself.

Thats probably because you only have played modern FPS games. The problem is that FPS games that are on the PC are designed with the control pad limitations in mind (to various degrees). So its not as if all gamers can be happy playing the games they want because many PC M&K gamers just arnt getting the games they want to play.

If you watched the Bulletstorm Zero Punctuation ep, you will know that Epic bought out the makers of Painkiller, so that series is dead to us M&K players. The only game that has any hope of satisfying us is the upcomming Serious Sam 3. Ill cry if that game is just another control pad FPS.

That's a joke, right? Modern FPS games would be laughed into oblivion if they used that gameplay. The only reason it was ever like that is because the AI and animations didn't alow any sort of decent cover based shooting, even as primitive as Goldeneye on N64 had some sort of cover usage.

Also, movement is, IMO, more precise with a gamepad but aiming better with a mouse. It actually boggles my mind that there aren't any PC gaming accessories with a thumbstick for movement. All the dedicated gaming pads/keyboards still opt to use WASD type movement keys. It's just wierd to me. I wish that Logitech G13 had a proper thumbstick.

I half think you might be trolling me, but ill take you seriously. With the way you namedrop Goldeneye im lead to believe that you are a console player not PC. If so the the reason you think old pre Halo FPS games are rubbish is because you havnt played any good ones, just the sub standard PC ports that every blue moon was ported to console. In a way you could call those pre Halo FPS games as been dumbed down for PC .

Now imagine if every new game was like that, you would be pissed aswell, and we would be seeing threads with Console gamers moaning how PC is destroying gaming

As for you opinion on the precision of analog stick as more precise as a mouse, then you must be using a really crappy mouse. Plus the reason gamers still use a keyboard with the mouse rather then an analog stick, the reason is the need for buttons as the mouse only has 2 or 3.
Besides a good keyboard is very precise, ild argue that its more precise than an analog stick, considering many Touhou / bullet hell shmup players use the keyboard. Infact the best western player of Dodonpachi (the French shmupper Prometius) is a keyboard player. However most shmup players wont touch an analog stick with a 10ft barge poll, even those who are stuanch Console gamers.

 

[GeneWard]

*snip*

*moar snip*

...can't games just be about having fun, instead of ridiculous contests between consoles/PC

I never really saw the huge difference between the two myself.

This, and I'm sorry for inciting moar hate (directed at OP)

 

[Popido]

*snip*

*moar snip*

...can't games just be about having fun, instead of ridiculous contests between consoles/PC

I never really saw the huge difference between the two myself.

This, and I'm sorry for inciting moar hate (directed at OP)

But Im not having fun. :<

And heres the reason why.

 

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

And to any PC elitists out there, you (hopefully) wouldn't judge someone for wanting to eat spaghetti with a fork and spoon rather than a fork and knife, as they both have their own merits, and everyone has their own opinion, (best analogy ever)

If we're going to get off topic and start talking about spaghetti, I would judge the people using a knife as doing it wrong. A spoon is acceptable to use if you're Italian to help toss it to mix the sauce in and to use as a suitable surface to rest your fork against when twirling it. I'm lazy and prefer to just use a fork by itself against the side of the plate/bowl, but a spoon is fine, too. Knives are for plebs. Yes, I am a PC elitist and a spaghetti elitist. Heh.

 

[Danceofmasks]

And to any PC elitists out there, you (hopefully) wouldn't judge someone for wanting to eat spaghetti with a fork and spoon rather than a fork and knife, as they both have their own merits, and everyone has their own opinion, (best analogy ever)

If we're going to get off topic and start talking about spaghetti, I would judge the people using a knife as doing it wrong. A spoon is acceptable to use if you're Italian to help toss it to mix the sauce in and to use as a suitable surface to rest your fork against when twirling it. I'm lazy and prefer to just use a fork by itself against the side of the plate/bowl, but a spoon is fine, too. Knives are for plebs. Yes, I am a PC elitist and a spaghetti elitist. Heh.

Well, I disagree.
It's fine to use a fork/knife combo ... so long as they're designed for spaghetti.
Trying to use a carving fork and whittling knife, they just don't handle well enough.

 

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

And to any PC elitists out there, you (hopefully) wouldn't judge someone for wanting to eat spaghetti with a fork and spoon rather than a fork and knife, as they both have their own merits, and everyone has their own opinion, (best analogy ever)

If we're going to get off topic and start talking about spaghetti, I would judge the people using a knife as doing it wrong. A spoon is acceptable to use if you're Italian to help toss it to mix the sauce in and to use as a suitable surface to rest your fork against when twirling it. I'm lazy and prefer to just use a fork by itself against the side of the plate/bowl, but a spoon is fine, too. Knives are for plebs. Yes, I am a PC elitist and a spaghetti elitist. Heh.

Well, I disagree.
It's fine to use a fork/knife combo ... so long as they're designed for spaghetti.
Trying to use a carving fork and whittling knife, they just don't handle well enough.

I actually think I'd award bonus points the more inappropriate the fork/knife combination is, once it gets past a certain level of ridiculousness. A carving fork is a good start, but a toasting fork or crab fork would be good, too. Special prize for anyone using one of those electric carving knives people use for slicing whole hams, or maybe one of these [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maguro_b%C5%8Dch%C5%8D].

 

[Continuity]

also: different control method =/= "dumbing down"
it's a different method of control that some people happen to prefer, like you happen to prefer pc games and m&k

Did you even read his post? he was saying how the different control method has lead differences in game and level design, specifically making levels more linear, putting enemies in front of you more and giving you few enemies... plus a general lack of sophistication I might add, even the most detailed console FPS still have a very strong arcadey feel to them IMO.

So in summary its not just a different control method but also the difference in game design that that entails.

 

[Continuity]

And PC Gamers LOVE blaming all their problems on console gamers. And the concept of "different opinions" just seems to be absolutely ALIEN to them... no, the PC Gamer mentality is "OUR GAMES ARE BETTER, AND IF YOU DON'T STAND IN AWE OF OUR SUPERIORITY, YOU'RE AN IDIOT."

You do realise I hope that you're making quite a generalisation here, stereotypes do have a limit to their usefulness especially in serious debate.

Besides, its not just about opinion or preference, sometimes there is just a better way of doing things... for example round wheels on cars are much better than square ones... you can use square ones, you can even say you like square ones, but don't be surprised when the people who prefer round wheels have a bit of a go at you when every damn car for sale suddenly has square wheels.

Also, movement is, IMO, more precise with a gamepad but aiming better with a mouse. It actually boggles my mind that there aren't any PC gaming accessories with a thumbstick for movement. All the dedicated gaming pads/keyboards still opt to use WASD type movement keys. It's just wierd to me. I wish that Logitech G13 had a proper thumbstick.

Well I hope you don't take offence but I suspect you're speaking out of ignorance here, I game with both gamepad and M+K, I have a 360 controller on my desk right now, and although some games may feel smoother with the gamepad you always get better control (both movement and aiming) with m+k, even if the implementation of m+k is terrible which it often is.
Not to say I never use the gamepad, I do use it, most recently I completed Arkham asylum with the 360 controller because it felt more natural, despite being able to get more precise control with m+k which I played the first few hours of the game with.

There's a very good reason there is no thumbstick accessory for the PC (there probably are a few actually, they just dont sell well)... its simply that WSAD is better, in combination with mouse look it provides a far greater range and fidelity of control - despite this, as I have said, I still sometimes use the gamepad.

 

[Durananrananrananran]

The original post was well thought out, if only a little condescending. The irony is, the madcap circle strafe play style of Serious Sam actually works on consoles. The console ports of Serious Sam, and Unreal Championship, and Quake 3, were all very fun. It's just that more casual players would find it too difficult to pick up, and seemed to prefer the run-stop-aim-shoot style that is now prevalent.

Here's a song:

o4fWN6VvgKQ[/youtube]

 

[theonecookie]

I like both PC and console games and imo PC games generally provide a richer gaming experience. The only problem with PC is that many games are console exclusive.

As other have said a M&K for some genres really is the best method over a pad. Just like a stearing wheel is better for racing games, the problem is that console games are designed with the wheel in mind but never the m&k.

This is a shame as a M&K FPS is very different from a control pad FPS.

Here is a video of Serious Sam 2 HD


And This is Painkiller


Notice how there are lots of baddies onscreen to shoot at. Where the player must destroy the baddies asap while constantly moving backwards and sidewards to dodge the baddies and to herd them into a group to take them out in one go. In many ways a good PC FPS is like the 2D twinstick shooter genre in the way the player must be always moving around the screen and been dynamic.

Geometry Wars 2 vid, notice how the player experly runs rings around the enemy. A good PC FPS plays just the same.


The problem with console / control pad gaming is that it cant match the mouse and keyboard for the speed and acuracy even with auto aim, So that to accomadate the slower controls developers have decreased the number of baddies onscreen at one time to just 2 or 3 so the player doesnt get overwhelmed.

The only time most modern FPS games put lots of baddies onscreen are on-rails shooting gallery sections where the player is manning a helicopter rail gun and can esily spray the area in front of him with bullets, and because control pad gamers dont move or look 360 degrees as much as M+K enemies tend to be usually infront of the player, this also has an effect on level design making it more linear in nature.

While more slower paced tactical shooters like modern warfare 2 do suit the control pad a little better, it still isnt as good as M+K imo. Plus the PC has real head tracking like Track IR

Track IR in Arma2 (fastforward to 4 mins to see how in plays in game)


So when PC gamers are talking about console dumbing down not all of us are been elitist jerks many of us actually have a real point to make. Now hopefully you guys on the console FPS side will understand some points in what PC gamers are driving at. The Duke Nuken Forever game is a perfect example of console dumbing down, sure it looks nice and is fun but it would of been so much better if designed with the PC / mouse and keyboard in mind

Anyone care to tell me how the hell I embed YT videos on this site? EDIT thx Glademaster

i never understud this you talk about dumbing down and then you use 2 of the dumbest shooters in the history of man (fun but still dumb) and then talk about how its gamepads that dont allow this type of shooter which is of course bullshit because i dont know which SS or painkiller you played but the one I played required quick refelxes not presicion the same gos for painkiller

arma you may have a point with but then thats a realistic shooter but with out the regenerating health which would be very easy to play on consoles which thay have been before as seen with operation flashpoint

what your doing is somehow blaming the game pad for a problem in has nither caused or wants to be fair it just representive of todays moden market as i will now prove with one of the most fun dumb shoots that had health pack and strafing and all that good stuff that you seem to think is missing due to consoles having the game pad

 

[Revolutionary]

I'll admit that certain things have to be simplified to accommodate the consoles more simplistic set-up. However sometimes these simplifications can actually lead to a more intuitive way of controlling the game.

 

[Continuity]

Explain, please explain, how on earth a different control method leads to linear game design.
And what do you mean by a lack of sophistication? examples man they are the basis of an argument.

OK, just read the OP for goodness sake.

As for sophistication.... compare ARMA2 and whatever the best is that the consoles have to offer. I rest my case.

Bad analogy here as consoles came before pcs unless you refer to pcs being the square wheeled cars but then they cannot be as you suggest they are popular.

which came before is totally irrelevant, and for record the very first games were made and played on computers long before the console industry was born. The analogy isn't supposed to be a completely comparable one, i'm highlighting just one point which was to explain why PC gamers get annoyed by games designed for gamepads.

PC controls are amazing you can move in all of four directions at a time. Diagonal directions are for chumps.

You know, you can move diagonally simply by pressing two keys at once...

 

[Cridhe]

PC vs Console wars continue: My religion is the right religion and you're just going to burn in hell for having a stupid god.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

You know what? I honestly wish making threads like this were against the rules.

The only thing they are good for are causing arguments and flame wars, not a mature discussion. Look above at the posts, 2 pages in and there is already a few rants.

So well done OP.