The Elder Souls?

[endtherapture]

If TES's combat system, but nothing else, was replaced with the combat system of Demon's/Dark Souls, would it bother you or would you be cool with it? It'd obviously require a lot of balancing in the terms of potion drinking and level design of TES, but I think it'd be worth it.

For a fantasy world, TES leaves a lot to be desired in the terms of big boss fights and mystical creatures which I think Dark Souls particularly excelled in, and it'd just tighten up he game a lot more and make it more enjoyable, even if it wasn't as challenging as Dark Souls.

Your thoughts?

 

[ERaptor]

The Elder Scrolls has two main problems in my book:

- Lacking Characters. It's okay to populate your open world, but there shoulb be _some_ Characters around that are delivered well and make me care about them.

- Combat. Feedback, Move variety and general impact. Especially Warriorbuilds tend to be Block->Slash->Block->Slash etc. Skyrim made a step into the right direction by adding some extra animations (Which are expanded, by using Mods like Killmove+, try those btw.) but not much more.

So yes, a breath of fresh air into the Combat would be cool, but im not sure if Dark Souls-variety would fit. One big point of the Elder Scrolls is that YOU are the Hero and make the Story. This is intensified by Character creation, and mostly playing in first person. Dark Souls tackled the whole thing a bit differently, i think it would feel weird to just port the System over.

I complete agree with the Boss-Fights tough. Especially Dragons in Skyrim needed to be modded HEAVILY to even feel like a challenge. Dark Souls Bosses on the other hand _felt_ big, dangerous and strong. I think TES could profit quite a bit from taking notes in terms of mechanics around encounters and especialy in general enemy design. I never felt really threatened in Skyrim. It's sad when my reaction to a Dragon is "Ah, i can learn that new shout." instead of "Bloody Hell, a Dragon!". This was a problem with most encounters in Skyrim. Dark Souls handled the feeling of Threat, danger and achievement a lot better than TES.

 

[thethird0611]

I think there is a big difference between the concept of who the hero is in both games. I use Hero Losely.

In the Elder Scrolls, your basically the 'chosen' one who is supposed to do this and that, so combat should be a lot easier (or at least not as difficult as Dark Souls since you have the divine on your side.)

In Dark Souls, your just a random undead who has been told a myth that hundreds of other undeads may have tried to reach, you just were the one to make it. Your just a nobody, which means these big monsters are -not- going to be easy.

So yeah, thats my first reasoning.

After that though, I think its also good to have a variety of combat styles. Some people may not like TES combat, and some may not like the DaS combat, so its nice to have both.

Honestly, I think Skyrim just need more content. The environment has a lot of content... the quest/events/etc. werent that much though.

 

[black_knight1337]

No way, Dark Souls combat doesn't belong in TES, let alone what it calls "difficulty"(which is ridiculously overrated). That being said though, I do agree TES needs to up it's game in this regard. Mods like SkyRE help somewhat, but it all just ends up being the same old thing. Just block then spam attack with the occasional enemy that makes you block a couple more times. What I'd like to see for the combat is a system somewhat like Chivalry. Combat is punishing if you make a mistake and very satisfying when you don't and the attacks feel great as well.

Agreed on the boss fights as well. Currently they are just another enemy with a bit more health and the odd unique power that doesn't really change all that much. They should be giving them unique and varied move-sets so instead of coming up to a boss and thinking "How long is this going to take?" it should be "What is this guy going to be able to do?". But have it foreshadowed in the zone leading up to it. So that's something it can definitely take out of Dark Souls.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Replacing TES combat with Dark/Demon souls would bother me because Dark/Demon souls combat doesn't work in anything but third person, and TEs is not a third person game.

You can play it in third person....... but I don't know anyone that does. Its entirely unimersive.

 

[GoaThief]

The Souls series is essentially archaic combat design - akin to Shmups even, where you have set checkpoints and you learn enemy spawn positions, patterns, traps then face down random big bad which will usually kick your arse the first few times then you go back to pattern recognition, rinse, repeat.

I think it's a bit overrated and clichéd to say the least and not suited to open world gameplay at all. Especially to games like TES where combat is hardly the main focus, there are people who basically use it as a herb gathering/exploration simulator.

 

[Benpasko]

Fuck it, let's put Bushido Blade combat in Elder Scrolls. My main problem with Bethesda games is that the combat isn't lethal enough so I would love DaS combat or what have you, but a lot of people who play it like to turn their brains off, so if they actually made it hard there would be shitstorm.

 

[stroopwafel]

I would love as well if TES took some inspiration from Souls combat. Enemies don't have to be relentlessly vicious like in Souls but if the swordplay had similair 'weight' it would just make combat in Elder Srolls much more satisfying. Instead of the boring and sluggish swoops the combat is now. And enemies need to have proper hit detection(now there isn't even a proper animation when you hit enemies). The exploration and setting in TES(espescially Skyrim) is amazing but the combat...not so much. I really hope they will make it more satisfying in new installments, though to Souls degree will indeed be difficult in first person.

 

[endtherapture]

I think there is a big difference between the concept of who the hero is in both games. I use Hero Losely.

In the Elder Scrolls, your basically the 'chosen' one who is supposed to do this and that, so combat should be a lot easier (or at least not as difficult as Dark Souls since you have the divine on your side.)

It doesn't have to be hard, it just has to be engaging. TES combat is neither challenging nor engaging. Dark Souls combat is challenging and engaging. I'd like TES combat to be much more engaging and also challenging but without taking it to Dark Souls levels of hard...basically more focus on dodging and positioning, maintaining your stamina levels, and timing as opposed to "slash wildly and occasionally block and chug potions".

 

[Gottesstrafe]

I agree on TES needing better combat. Demon/Dark Souls combat though... well, the thing is that combat for the Souls series was made with third person in mind. TES is NOT a third person game. You can toggle on third person for vanity reasons or to get a better view of things, but it is not the central perspective the developers had in mind for TES gameplay. It can still take notes from Souls on other things though, like weapon and move set variety, adding more weight to combat, different weapon type damage (i.e. blunt against armor and blade for bleed), more complex fighting AI, interesting boss fights, and more defensive options.

Aside from that, there's also the huge tonal difference between the two series that makes a full implementation of Souls combat in TES tricky. The Souls games are hugely atmospheric. They're dark, depressing environments that are supposed to make the player feel on edge and unprepared for what's coming ahead. The heavier, more complex/lethal combat reinforces that, where combat is EVERYTHING. On the flip side, TES is a more lighthearted adventure game with an emphasis on world building and exploring. Combat is certainly a big part of those games, but it takes a backseat to the role playing and exploration of the world the game presents. Combat can be avoidable in TES depending on the type of character you want to play, and is certainly not the be-all and end-all force it is in the Souls series (not everyone plays the one-answer-to-everything warrior type). Having a slower, heavier combat system detracts from that and makes it harder/more grueling to explore the map. Having more combat options like in the Souls series would certainly help flesh out TES, but transplanting it directly would be counter to TES's major selling point.

 

[MysticSlayer]

I don't think the combat in the Souls games would work very well in an Elder Scrolls game. For starters, I don't see how Dark Souls's combat would work in a first-person perspective, as it requires a level of situational awareness that simply can't be had in a first-person game (this is why platformers often don't work in first person), and I seriously doubt Bethesda is ready to get rid of that, but at the same time it is pointless (and rather expensive) to develop and balance a whole new combat system for third-person perspective. You also have to consider focus. The Elder Scrolls is focused on exploration and light role playing, while Dark Souls is all about the combat, so, naturally, Dark Souls has to put a greater emphasis on getting a better combat system than Elder Scrolls does.

Now, this isn't to say that I wouldn't want to see an Elder Scrolls-styled open world game with combat more similar to Dark Souls, but the developers need to go into the game understanding what they need to go for in order for it to work. You can't just simply merge the combat of one game into an entirely different one without considering if it would fit with what that game/franchise is all about. It would be better for a developer to come along and create a whole new series meant for a whole new fanbase.

 

[spartan231490]

I actually really like the TES combat system because it keeps you so firmly in the drivers seat and it's very intuitive(if unrewarding). I recognize it's flaws and the system could use an overhaul, but I'd like to see the core of the system remain unchanged.

 

[Smooth Operator]

As an optional mod I'd surely want to try it, because DS does have a very systematic combat system however it does depend on a certain preset item / monster set which could kill many parts of TES that make it stand out.
And there is the obvious "you must be punished" side of that design philosophy which I understand but have no patience for.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Though I'll say Elder Scrolls combat is pretty awful, I don't think Souls combat would fit in it. Make Souls combat a bit more free and less challenging, then maybe. But personally, I'd rather start by looking at the current ES combat and see what could be improved about it. ES combat is uninvolved, but very easy to learn. It's basically an FPS game where melee weapons are very short range guns.

That said, the Elder Scrolls series has far bigger problems than just the combat system.