The First Pirate Bust Of 2009

[str8lazy]

Well, just to be on the opposite side of things, since all of you have made judgment without being fully aware of the situation.

You all make it sound like he actually ripped the games and stuff and then sold them for an ungodly amount of money.

He also was probably just charging for the work that he did. That being he took the time to load the dvd burner and burn the image. So thats a few bucks for the game that he is charging.

He was also probably charging for parts, and then on top of that a few bucks for the work that he actually did. Modchips do not self install. And modchips by themselves are completely legal.

He was simply making a living in a not so honest way, yeah, he bumped up against some copyright infringement laws. Does he deserve to go to prison? No. Only an idiot would think that he should go to prison. Because only an idiot would not recognize that at the end of the day, it is going to cost you, the tax payer money to keep him in prison. When instead you could be spending that money on more important things. Like education? Roads? The list goes on.

This man deserves a slap on the wrist a stern warning and perhaps a fine.

Nothing more.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Well, just to be on the opposite side of things, since all of you have made judgment without being fully aware of the situation.

You all make it sound like he actually ripped the games and stuff and then sold them for an ungodly amount of money.

He also was probably just charging for the work that he did. That being he took the time to load the dvd burner and burn the image. So thats a few bucks for the game that he is charging.

He was also probably charging for parts, and then on top of that a few bucks for the work that he actually did. Modchips do not self install. And modchips by themselves are completely legal.

He was simply making a living in a not so honest way, yeah, he bumped up against some copyright infringement laws. Does he deserve to go to prison? No. Only an idiot would think that he should go to prison. Because only an idiot would not recognize that at the end of the day, it is going to cost you, the tax payer money to keep him in prison. When instead you could be spending that money on more important things. Like education? Roads? The list goes on.

This man deserves a slap on the wrist a stern warning and perhaps a fine.

Nothing more.

He was making a profit illegally. That is a pretty good reason to put him in prison. And using your taxpayer's logic, no one should go to prison, because it would cost us money. Ban all prisons!

 

[Skrapt]

Surely that analogy is flawed. Finished games and music are not recipes which can be made by anybody. Somebody has put tons and tons of work into creating the code, textures, models, landscapes etc (or with music - lyrics, notes, orchestration) and pirates who download a complete game or album to play or listen to and do not pay for it are depriving the creators and artists of money that they rightfully deserve.

More importantly, pirates should face the fact that by downloading games for free without paying developers and publishers they are only harming the industry (and leading to ridiculous counter-measures like DRM). They aren't doing gamers any favours, which makes me wonder why so many people defend them!

A complicated meal is just as difficult to make as any game is, I developed levels/models/textures myself for half life for several years and even if given proper instructions am sure I could not cook a complicated meal to any kind of good standard. And that's why it's a good analogy, you are copying that recipe/material that people have put work into so don't they also rightfully deserve that money?

The problem is all the artists lose is potential profit as they are not paying to maintain the copies on the internet, they may 'rightfully deserve it' but the problem is that 99% of pirates wouldn't pay for what they are downloading anyway, which is why it's difficult to classify piracy as theft as they aren't stealing a physical copy of the product that the artist has paid to produce/maintain, they are stealing a copy of a product that someone else has paid for and which the artist has already made profit on.

I'm not defending pirates, I just don't think piracy can really be classified as actual theft and I think it's a little wrong that people can get sued for $50,000 without any real evidence then real criminals who have committed robbery/etc. get away because there isn't enough evidence against them.

 

[moeroris]

[snip]

Interesting... but did they prosecute the investigator who bought the pirated games?

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Prosecute him for what? If you mean entrapment, then it isn't a crime, it's a legal defense. A successful entrapment defense would result in the exclusion of evidence or the case being stayed.

If you mean for purchasing the illegally copied games, I would assume the police would enjoy similar protection to those who buy drugs undercover. I'm not clear on what the legal precedent is that allows it, but presumably it's based on that fact that they are law enforcement and making the purchase to prove criminal behaviour. That's purely conjecture though.

 

[Isotope 2217]

Personally, 10 years, when i hit and run driver gets less is fecking ridiculous.

I wont admit to whether or not i pirate, but ill say if i like it i buy it, hence my 60 360 games and DVD collection over 300 strong.

However, individual piracy I can kinda understand, but selling to make money, man that dude got what he deserves.

i couldnt agree more. 100%

 

[Baneat]

I'm usually a bit wishy-washy when it comes to Piracy issues, but this guys was making money off it. I have no sympathy for him.

Execellent post. I think that this article may have gor it wrong because it's not cost effective to chip Xbox consoles now, flashing is cheaper and a bit easier.

 

[Brian Name]

A complicated meal is just as difficult to make as any game is, I developed levels/models/textures myself for half life for several years and even if given proper instructions am sure I could not cook a complicated meal to any kind of good standard. And that's why it's a good analogy, you are copying that recipe/material that people have put work into so don't they also rightfully deserve that money?

The problem is all the artists lose is potential profit as they are not paying to maintain the copies on the internet, they may 'rightfully deserve it' but the problem is that 99% of pirates wouldn't pay for what they are downloading anyway, which is why it's difficult to classify piracy as theft as they aren't stealing a physical copy of the product that the artist has paid to produce/maintain, they are stealing a copy of a product that someone else has paid for and which the artist has already made profit on.

But if we're carrying that analogy on, when people illegally download a game they are not simply copying a recipe or schematic - they are also taking the ingredients or parts created by the developers to "reproduce" it. And just because pirates "wouldn't normally pay for it anyway" doesn't take away from the fact that they are taking what isn't theirs. If I walked into a shop and thought "oh, I wouldn't PAY for this whiskey, but I WOULD just shoplift it for free" I wouldn't be less of a thief.

But I think maybe you have a point. I guess it comes down to whether or not you consider if witholding what somebody else deserves can be called "stealing" from them. I think it can. If I worked a five-day week and then on payday somebody in HR said to me "No, we aren't paying you for that" I'd be inclined to call them a thief, not in the traditional sense of taking something from my person or surroundings - but in the sense that they have effectively taken what belongs to me.

 

[bue519]

"Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association...our team in the Intellectual Property Crime Unit."

These guys sure like their long titles and sub-commitees.

I'm usually a bit wishy-washy when it comes to Piracy issues, but this guys was making money off it. I have no sympathy for him.

Would have to agree, piracy is ripping stuff to give for free, this guy is making a 100% profit, almost. Although wouldn't be surprised if he stole those systems and original games in the first place.

EDIT: You have just been quoted three times in a row, feel special.

I honestly doubt its any were near 100% profit and just because the guys a pirate doesn't mean he's a burglar.

Seriously, the ten years in prison also seems pretty harsh. It wasn't like he was stealing money from a company, or doing insider trading.

 

[Skrapt]

But if we're carrying that analogy on, when people illegally download a game they are not simply copying a recipe or schematic - they are also taking the ingredients or parts created by the developers to "reproduce" it. And just because pirates "wouldn't normally pay for it anyway" doesn't take away from the fact that they are taking what isn't theirs. If I walked into a shop and thought "oh, I wouldn't PAY for this whiskey, but I WOULD just shoplift it for free" I wouldn't be less of a thief.

But I think maybe you have a point. I guess it comes down to whether or not you consider if witholding what somebody else deserves can be called "stealing" from them. I think it can. If I worked a five-day week and then on payday somebody in HR said to me "No, we aren't paying you for that" I'd be inclined to call them a thief, not in the traditional sense of taking something from my person or surroundings - but in the sense that they have effectively taken what belongs to me.

I see your point, and I agree that the pirates are effectively taking something that isn't theirs. I'm not arguing that, however I think the line is blurred a little between physical content, and digital content. The whiskey in your case, has had to have been created on a production line and then shipped to the shop, all of which costs money to the original producer and taking it without paying is without a doubt theft. However digitally the Whiskey has already been bought by someone else who has taken it upon themselves to copy it and distribute it freely, which is more difficult to classify as theft as the original producers costs have been met and the only crime they are really committing is copyright theft by copying something that the original producer may/may not have exclusive rights to.

I agree that pirates are effectively stealing, I just think the punishments at the moment are really weighted in the wrong direction, by bankrupting people who have pirated an album when they were 12 and letting people who have stolen physical products go free because of technicalities.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Seriously, the ten years in prison also seems pretty harsh. It wasn't like he was stealing money from a company, or doing insider trading.

Ten years is the maximum sentence. Like was said before, that probably means 6 months to a year unless the Judge decides it's a national threat and puts it over 4.

10 years would be reserved for something like re-patching Steam to give free games to everyone.

 

[Playbahnosh]

10 years in prison is by no means fair, no matter what he did. Murderers and child rapists get away with less, for Goodness' sake! There was a case, not so long ago, just in the neighborhood, a guy robbed and killed an old lady in her own home (at least the police could only prove this one case). The guy didn't even show any signs of regret, so he got 8 years in prison and another 4 on probation. A murderer, who kills helpless old ladies for a few bucks, and doesn't even regret it. How does that compare to a guy, who just copied some disks and chipped a few xboxes? He could've at least go on a murdering spree to justify that sentence...

No matter how much big corporations are trying to police the digital world and the internet, it won't happen. The internet is free, and it should be.

 

[Teh_Doomage]

I have no sympathy for a guy that makes money off piracy.

I also hate that he gets off easy in terms of a sentence.

 

[Samah]

[snip]

Interesting... but did they prosecute the investigator who bought the pirated games?

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Prosecute him for what? If you mean entrapment, then it isn't a crime, it's a legal defense. A successful entrapment defense would result in the exclusion of evidence or the case being stayed.

If you mean for purchasing the illegally copied games, I would assume the police would enjoy similar protection to those who buy drugs undercover. I'm not clear on what the legal precedent is that allows it, but presumably it's based on that fact that they are law enforcement and making the purchase to prove criminal behaviour. That's purely conjecture though.

*cough* sarcasm...

 

[Playbahnosh]

I have no sympathy for a guy that makes money off piracy.

I also hate that he gets off easy in terms of a sentence.

Easy? Ten years in prison is easy? In that case, next time you drop some litter or go jaywalking, you get 10 years in the slammer, see how you like it.

And I doubt he was making much money. These guys mainly only ask for the material costs in return, no real profit. Those chips cost money, the CDs cost money...etc. They won't do this at a loss, totally understandable, but I don't think any one of them got a luxury condo or a solid gold jacuzzi from this side-job. Ehh...

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

And I doubt he was making much money. These guys mainly only ask for the material costs in return, no real profit. Those chips cost money, the CDs cost money...etc. They won't do this at a loss, totally understandable, but I don't think any one of them got a luxury condo or a solid gold jacuzzi from this side-job. Ehh...

You'd be surprised. I know of one guy who got a BMW from a stolen game code.

And remember 10 years is the maximum sentence, he might just end up doing community service. For littering, the maximum is a fine of $2,500; and for jaywalking in the UK, there is no legal precedent.

 

[Playbahnosh]

And I doubt he was making much money. These guys mainly only ask for the material costs in return, no real profit. Those chips cost money, the CDs cost money...etc. They won't do this at a loss, totally understandable, but I don't think any one of them got a luxury condo or a solid gold jacuzzi from this side-job. Ehh...

You'd be surprised. I know of one guy who got a BMW from a stolen game code.

And remember 10 years is the maximum sentence, he might just end up doing community service. For littering, the maximum is a fine of $2,500; and for jaywalking in the UK, there is no legal precedent.

Um, I hear you, but did you even read what I wrote up there? It's not stolen source code this guy was trading in, it was copied games. There is a BIG difference between copying some disks and stealing raw code. Maybe not for the average person, but there is. Copying the end product is like copying a clay figurine made by some machine. Stealing the source code is stealing the machine making the figurines. The games circulating on the internet are compiled, finished stuff, and normally you can't use or even see the technology behind it...

The other thing about jaywalking and littering...that was just a crude example.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I always try to read source material. As I said, he'd been running his website for over 2 years, with also chipping consoles and pirating games. Raw code can often be reverse engineered as well. An article in the Metro today linked back to his site where he was running stuff for people. Charge a little here and there and it soon mounts up.

But if you've some extra information, I'd be glad to hear it.

 

[Tiger Sora]

Pirates ahhh not my gold lol. Seriously it is stealing though being it physical of electronicly. Just like ppl steal credit card numbers to get their cash exactly the same.

 

[sheic99]

If you really want to be a pirate, at least have the god-damn common decency to pick up the soldering iron and do it yourself. That way we can point and laugh when you brick your system.

Unless you have a 360, which seem to be criminally easy to mod.

And bricks itself for you.

 

[shadowbird]

Prior to the official raid, investigators set up a sting operation where they visited him to have their Xbox chipped and purchase pirated games. The console and games were then forensically examined to provide the evidence needed to obtain a search warrant.

And that is how it should be done. Unlike online piracy hunting, where a private organization like MPAA or IFPI can bully ISP into giving them your address and then trying to make money off of you. All without a shred of [f]actual evidence and the police never even hearing about it.