"why would anyone want that" is an excellent question that I could ask myself all the time when I visit game-sites nowadays. But I would actually say that DNF is still one step above most action games nowadays, precisely because it doesn't feign to be "serious" or "realistic" or "morally ambiguous" (although, well, that would be true, I guess). Developers and communities alike get increasingly cocky about the status of their pastime with other forms of entertainment, while in truth it gets increasingly repetitive, commercial and unimaginative.
The "fun-shooters" return. But why would anyone want that?
- Thread starter Zannah
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Zannah said:
Pointless shooters have a place as stress relievers occasionally.
Also... *spit take of coffee followed by laughter* basically the whole Halo franchise besides the first one falls under the category of "repetetive grindfests soaked in testosterone and immaturity" as well as the CoD franchise after the second game. (I never played CoD 3/4, but modern warfare and blackops fall directly under this category. So excuse me if 3/4 had a decent plot line since I'm referring to the "newer" games of the franchise.)
You can have grindfest games hidden under a plot. That's what Duke and Bulletstorm are doing. ^_^
Until I looked at the wikipedia page for Doom a few years ago I had no idea DOOM had some kind of narrative. When I was a kid I didn't give a fuck, the game told me,
Game: "Demons or aliens or something are all over this moon base, go kill them for their colored passcards"
Me: "I think I'll take you up on that, DOOM shareware version"
Game: "You're not going to ask why?"
Me: "ehhhhh..uhhhgh"
These games are focused around gameplay, really. Not looking to enhance an experience through a rich story and mechanics intertwined within that story. They're the B movies or the old grindhouse films of the video game world. Some of my favorite games are like this. After awhile all the modern-feel games out there just begin to blur together and you begin to feel like you've already played the game before- anything different is good when this point of stagnation occurs.
Game: "Demons or aliens or something are all over this moon base, go kill them for their colored passcards"
Me: "I think I'll take you up on that, DOOM shareware version"
Game: "You're not going to ask why?"
Me: "ehhhhh..uhhhgh"
These games are focused around gameplay, really. Not looking to enhance an experience through a rich story and mechanics intertwined within that story. They're the B movies or the old grindhouse films of the video game world. Some of my favorite games are like this. After awhile all the modern-feel games out there just begin to blur together and you begin to feel like you've already played the game before- anything different is good when this point of stagnation occurs.
I agree completely. DNF looks incredibly immature. I know it's supposed to be a joke, but so were Meet the Spartans and Epic Movie.Zannah said:
DNF looks like an incredibly tasteless game custom-built for the lowest common denominator. It really astounds me how much hype it's getting. Obviously we don't just need serious games, but this looks like a bit too much stupid.
It's whatever floats your boat really. Some people like fun shooters, others like serious shooters. It's not like they're going to stop making one type just because they decide to make a few of the others. Personally, I need a story to get into a game, but an element of fun is nice too. Uncharted does a great job of giving the best of both worlds. A compelling story AND one liners.
Damn.
We need a Warhammer 40k FPS.
Fuck that, we need a TPS. Where you can choose all the available factions with good stories and shit and drive around huge fucking things. TPS because that helps with the melee+lets the game show off the epic.
We need a Warhammer 40k FPS.
Fuck that, we need a TPS. Where you can choose all the available factions with good stories and shit and drive around huge fucking things. TPS because that helps with the melee+lets the game show off the epic.
Zannah said:
I see no real evidence of what your talking about. Looking at these games I see nothing to imply that they aren't going to have decent level design, objectives, or storylines. I see the major differance here as being that these games have decided to take less of a gritty and realistic approach to the whole idea, instead aiming for more of a campy atmosphere. It's sort of like comparing Star Wars or Flash Gordon, to say Aliens and the "new" Battlestar Galactica (not a perfect analogy, but I'm a bit out of it at the moment). Speaking for myself I don't want everything to be deadpan serious all the time, and that's why within the Post Apocolyptic genere there is room for both STALKER, and Fallout.
The trick to doing a good work of camp or satire is to keep things internally consistant, and to present jeopardy within the framework and tone that has been established. I see no reason why this can't be done with these other games.
Now, I will say that the whole "doors slam shut, and waves of enemies attack" mechanism will probably be present somewhere, at least in multiplayer. Co-Op "Last Stand" modes are rather popular right now, however I do not think that the single player campaigns are liable to be especially lacking in any of these games from what I've seen... goofy yes, but badly designed? Probably not.
Out of the games mentioned the one that seems to be most likely to fail is probably going to be "Duke Nukem" because really nothing could live up to that hype, and the current game we're looking at right now seems like it's been churned out pretty quickly. Bulletstorm and "Serious Sam" on the otherhand *DO* seem to have spent more time under development. Of the two I will be honest in saying that "Serious Sam" will probably be the most likely to see a following among hardcore shooter fans, simply because that series seems to delight in messing with the conventions. It was famous for having a final boss the size of the pyramid of Giza that you wound up fighting on a jet bike for example, and that was before anyone else had done anything similar. If it has similar things that go against the genere conventions in the current release, I suspect most of the complaints will be more along the lines of them being too radical (ie "it's not a FPS anymore") than too retro or derivitive.
I'll also be honest in saying that I think the current trend towards camp is because I think a lot of developers figure they aren't going to compete with the current juggernaut franchises for taking a realistic approach, so they need to do something else. That, and as time goes on it's becoming politically incorrect to be too pro-USA/pro-military, combined with the contreversy involved with portraying real world events even from the other direction. I think a lot of developers don't want to be involved in that, and would rather be over the top and deal with complaints about how their plant monsters ooze too much ichor, or they give their gimmick shots racy names or whatever.
I agree. Newer games have spoiled the new gamers. They can't play anything if it isn't rendered with the shiniest graphics and voice acted. Too bad they also mistake the existence of words for a sign of a good story. And what is so good about the stories of FPSes nowadays? IT'S THE SAME GOD DAMN STORY just with pallet switches! You are in the army, there are enemies over there, they hate your country. Kill them!McShizzle said:
Don't get me started on the gameplay! You took a shot, wait 'till the blood falls off your face. Shoot that guy hiding on the other side of that field, duck, cover, reload, repeat and if you are feeling adventurous you may throw a grenade!
Less of carrying 2 weapons and trying to make us care about the same bullshit war drama and more BFGs 9000, shrink rays, average running speed of a Ferrari, colorful explosions, one liners and alien goo flying in all directions!
Nighthief said:
Exactly this. I can't say I'm particularly excited for any of the "fun shooters" either but at least they're different. Honestly though, there haven't really been many shooters lately that interest me, the genre is so stagnant.GamesB2 said:
Zannah, I see you were born 1990, so was I. So you should understand why we would want these fun shooters back. I mean, you probably seen most of the comments here are people who love and want these "fun" games back, and so if I were to say anything more it would be a waste.
But honestly, really? Modern Warfare, all of call of duty games are overrated and hyped because it's a stupid fad. Just like justin beaver. Bad Company games are also hype, and I've played it and it was nothing special.
Now Bulletstorm is unique and original and looking forward to it because the demo was great. I grew up with Duke Nukem, and I've played Duke games since I was like 8 or so. So, of course I want those games back. That's why I can't wait for Doom 4 to come out, as the Doom series has been around just as long as Duke, if not, longer.
It's not a point of why would we want these fun shooters back, it's a point of why wouldn't we want these fun shooters back?
But honestly, really? Modern Warfare, all of call of duty games are overrated and hyped because it's a stupid fad. Just like justin beaver. Bad Company games are also hype, and I've played it and it was nothing special.
Now Bulletstorm is unique and original and looking forward to it because the demo was great. I grew up with Duke Nukem, and I've played Duke games since I was like 8 or so. So, of course I want those games back. That's why I can't wait for Doom 4 to come out, as the Doom series has been around just as long as Duke, if not, longer.
It's not a point of why would we want these fun shooters back, it's a point of why wouldn't we want these fun shooters back?
Because people WANT fun games!Zannah said:
Take modern warfare 2, it is trying to be serious and realistic yet people are running and gunning with sniper rifles when that it ridiculous and unrealistic!
And this is not new, have you any idea how popular Team Fortress 2 is on PC, where seriousness and realism are discarded in favour of a more abstract approach. Online multiplayer is inherently unrealistic and ridiculous, why try to treat it any other way?
Again, modern warfare 2 went for a "serious" plot but it came across as pretentious and ridiculous, it had a frankly Shyamalan level twist and a complete lack of closure. Plus it all just got SOO dramatic and high stakes, I mean Washington DC being invaded by Russia... where do you go from there? You can't top that. Don't try to. Homefront is trying but I think they're following a played-out trend.
Look, if you want "thinking person's games" well there are no shortage of them:
-Portal 2
-RTS (too many to list)
-Elder Scrolls V
-Witcher 2
-Batman Arkham City
Thing is we have had a LOT of serious shooters that have just tried to raise the stakes more and more and it has just turned from dramatic to melodrama and boring.
"abandoning the story in favor of un-funny one-liners doesn't work."
NO ONE is doing that as:
(a) they are not abandoning story any more than MW2 does, stop sticking to Hollywood archetypes of "story"
(b) the one liners ARE funny if you could just put your prejudices aside.
I think FPS games aren't really story driven anyways, and often the ones that are end up being super heavy on the poorly written melodrama, so being less serious is a much better route to take if you just want the plot to be an excuse to shoot aliens in the face. Judging by the demo, Bulletstorm has great level design in that there are a multitude of different things to kill dudes with in every section. It's definitely the farthest thing from a step back in terms of game design. IMO that's the main selling point.
I can't talk for the new Duke Nukem, but frankly from what I've seen the game looks kind of crap.
Serious Sam I've always liked because the game is designed in a very simple yet amazingly fun way: Pretty much everything that isn't you either runs at you or shoots slow moving projectiles. You have to kill them before they get close enough to overwhelm you. It's fast paced and fun because movement occupies the role that taking cover does in modern games, and as a result something as simple as a big empty field full of guys that want to kill you is a blast.
I can't talk for the new Duke Nukem, but frankly from what I've seen the game looks kind of crap.
Serious Sam I've always liked because the game is designed in a very simple yet amazingly fun way: Pretty much everything that isn't you either runs at you or shoots slow moving projectiles. You have to kill them before they get close enough to overwhelm you. It's fast paced and fun because movement occupies the role that taking cover does in modern games, and as a result something as simple as a big empty field full of guys that want to kill you is a blast.
So because you don't like them, they're poorly designed and a regression of talent? Huh.
I would hardly say that games like MW2 have good stories, for they certainly do not most of the time.
It's just two different styles of gameplay. Some of us miss the balls to the walls feeling the old style of shooters brought.
I would hardly say that games like MW2 have good stories, for they certainly do not most of the time.
It's just two different styles of gameplay. Some of us miss the balls to the walls feeling the old style of shooters brought.
Personally I don't plan on getting any of the three. However it is nice to see a game that isn't just brown and gray mixed in with ultra seriousness and shooting in the same boring fashion. A little comedy and change up in the standard formula can only be a good thing. Maybe more people will take a risk and try something other than your tried and boring COD way of things. That can only be a good thing.
Because EVERY FREAKING GAME tries to be realistic nowadays, old games had a sense of HUMOR to them, it's the humor and colorful graphics we want back, not the terrible and outdated level design that you and I both hate.
Quote. For. Epic. Truth.TimeLord said:
I may love a ton of shooters that come out this day and age, but seriously, I crave some variety! I've been replaying Borderlands, Serious Sam, and anything else I can find that is of old-school shooter school recently. I've also been having a ridiculous amount of fun doing it too.