The increasing hostility to games as art, games journalism, the industry, and Mass Effect 3.

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Jun 11, 2008
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No you are just noticing it more. It is like someone coming onto this site and saying it is full of PC/Console elitists. Those people are just louder than the rest and I'm sure if you talked to people irl they would not be hostile. Except, those that are hostile.

This increase in hostility or hate for something generally tends to be a myth as you just become aware of it more.
 

SweetLiquidSnake

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Jan 20, 2011
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I do feel the same as you, and I made another thread a while back about "Massholes" (angry elitist ME3 fans), but instead of having a nice thread like yours a bunch of Massholes came and attacked me and I gave up
 

Rooster Cogburn

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May 24, 2008
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SweetLiquidSnake said:
I do feel the same as you, and I made another thread a while back about "Massholes" (angry elitist ME3 fans), but instead of having a nice thread like yours a bunch of Massholes came and attacked me and I gave up
Do you see what I mean about the complainers being perfectly calm and reasonable and their detractors being offensive? It's like the detractors are projecting with the power of a thousand suns so they can feel good about deriding opinions they don't share.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Congratulations, you've discovered people can be dicks. Your trophy's in the mail. In a genre that panders to immaturity, the immature tend to rise.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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SweetLiquidSnake said:
I do feel the same as you, and I made another thread a while back about "Massholes" (angry elitist ME3 fans), but instead of having a nice thread like yours a bunch of Massholes came and attacked me and I gave up
As someone born in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I am offended by your use of "Masshole."

>.>
 

SweetLiquidSnake

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Rooster Cogburn said:
SweetLiquidSnake said:
I do feel the same as you, and I made another thread a while back about "Massholes" (angry elitist ME3 fans), but instead of having a nice thread like yours a bunch of Massholes came and attacked me and I gave up
Do you see what I mean about the complainers being perfectly calm and reasonable and their detractors being offensive? It's like the detractors are projecting with the power of a thousand suns so they can feel good about deriding opinions they don't share.
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not. When you say complainers do you mean "those complaining about the game and every little detail or "those complaining about people who complain about the game"?
 

getoffmycloud

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Jun 13, 2011
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Imbechile said:
No. This hatred is good, it means the people love and care about gaming. If they didn't say a word, it means they just don't care. If they are angry it's because gaming is changing for the worse.
I would agree with this is the hatred wasn't about every little thing that could possibly be bad.

And also stuff like when gamers kick off about cookie cutter sequels and then when a developer tries to change something in a sequel all you get is people complaining that it isn't the same as before I am seeing it everywhere with halo 4 atm and I bet in the coming months you will see it with assassins creed 3 when we get more information on that.

So really its not always because gaming is changing for the worse its because people are normally looking for an excuse to complain.
 

Rooster Cogburn

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May 24, 2008
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SweetLiquidSnake said:
Rooster Cogburn said:
SweetLiquidSnake said:
I do feel the same as you, and I made another thread a while back about "Massholes" (angry elitist ME3 fans), but instead of having a nice thread like yours a bunch of Massholes came and attacked me and I gave up
Do you see what I mean about the complainers being perfectly calm and reasonable and their detractors being offensive? It's like the detractors are projecting with the power of a thousand suns so they can feel good about deriding opinions they don't share.
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not. When you say complainers do you mean "those complaining about the game and every little detail or "those complaining about people who complain about the game"?
By 'complainers' I mean those complaining about the game. I am saying that calling them "Massholes" undercuts your message a bit, if your message is that they are the ones being offensive and unreasonable.
 

Dr. Dice Lord

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Feb 4, 2010
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Thoric485 said:
I like to think of games as art, but I can't think of anything that comes out of EA as art.

They cut out chunks from games to monetize separately, often damaging the core experience, they choke studios with ever-shortening development cycles, not allowing them to further their craft, and they hoard licenses they have no use for, keeping them from people that can do something good with them.

They deserve nothing but scrutiny and bile.
I was gonna type out a rather long rant, but you paraphrased most of my thoughts exactly, Thoric. Now they're getting to work on destroying DICE, my favorite gaming company in the entire world next to Valve. Games can be "art" but people shouldn't use this as an excuse to overlook problems within a game. In my opinion, games are "GAMES," they're entertainment first, and art second. Sure some indie devs change this around somewhat but I feel that's a generally accurate rule of thumb. Would you buy a majority of your games because they're "artistic?" I doubt it. I buy games because they're fun, end of story.

I think the people raging about the whole artistic integrity debacle have every right to do so. If I buy a product and am displeased with it, I have every right to disparage the company and complain about it. I joined Retake ME3 because we were -blatantly- lied to about what to expect in Mass Effect 3; the thought that it somehow being "art" makes that totally okay just baffles me. That sounds like a "head-in-the-sand" tactic to me.

As for the general hatred surround "games as art", maybe it has gotten a little out of hand. But honestly, I'd rather belong to an over-critical fan base than a group of sheeple that swallow whatever comes their way with a "thank you sir, may I have another." Like it or not fan outcry is the fastest way the change the industry, and personally, the industry needs a lot of change right about now.
 

Grimh

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Feb 11, 2009
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Hating on people because they have a differing opinion is pretty much one of the most useless and immature things you can do in life.
Of course people are going to do it.
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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Das Boot said:
The problem is that companies have been changing games to suit what the audience wants. The promlem is the people complaining are to stupid to realise that they are not the audience anymore. Times have changed and gaming has grown to more then just a small niche industry.
Ahh, so putting "Mass Effect" on the label means they weren't targeting Mass Effect fans as their audience? Got it.
Bioware has said they are listening - in response to us - and are releasing the EC DLC - in an attempt to appease us. Something tells me they think we are their audience.

Whether you agree that we were the audience or not, however, is irrelevant. Bioware wants our sales - they have to change the game. They don't think they're audience cares about the story - well I'm sure EA will get a whiff of that eventually, and start cost cutting when it comes to story in Bioware games. That story which they so seem to love, is being kept alive by the fans. If there is no interest in it from their audience - EA has a reputation for cutting those costs. For there sake I hope the EC is successful for some of their ex fans. I know that it won't be for a great many however.
 

370999

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SweetLiquidSnake said:
I do feel the same as you, and I made another thread a while back about "Massholes" (angry elitist ME3 fans), but instead of having a nice thread like yours a bunch of Massholes came and attacked me and I gave up
Yeah. I can't say that was entirely undeserved.

People are dicks OP. You seemed to be acting kinda dickish in this thread so meh.

Games are art. But that isn't an excuse.

Games journalism is incredibly corrupt and incompetent. Give it time and work with the bad and it should get better as long as bad journalism is punished.
 

BreakfastMan

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Jul 22, 2010
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Congratulations, you've discovered people can be dicks. Your trophy's in the mail. In a genre that panders to immaturity, the immature tend to rise.
So... what? We are just supposed to accept it? Or should we try to change it? Should not we call the dickishness to light and shame those who are? I don't want to accept that it exists and leave it at that. I want it to change.