The individualist is KINDA dead.

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antipunt

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I also hate emo kids. The main reason being that they refined the word emo as we know it.

Emo used to represent a kind of authentic music making. Now it's emo fag, shut you're emo, emo kid cuts his wrists.

Man...guys had enough trouble 'expressing emotion' as it was. This just made it worse.
 

curlycrouton

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If you're saying individuality is dead, it was never alive. Humans will also seek to emulate their peers, whether it's subconciously or conciously. It's an evolutionary trait, basically saying "I recognise the social norm, I am conforming, please don't hurt me". It's almost tribal.

And besides, where would we be without influence? Nowhere, that's where. The irony is that deep down, even those who rebel completely against what they perceive to be a social norm are in fact conforming to another subculture, that of rebellion.

And how is creativity dead? That's borderline ignorant. Look at all the fantastic and original art, music, films, games etc. that have been produced recently, and I think you'll be proven wrong.
 

Captain Blackout

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If I talk to people long enough I eventually:

Gross them out with something I eat (I like a lot of different things)

Piss them off with one of my views (I study a lot of philosophies/religions/schools of thought and take the best from most)

Make them wonder why I dress the way I do (I don't go for looks except I like this pirate thing I've got going for my own sense of aesthetics. I like the way I look and don't care about what others think of it unless there's a need i.e. job interview)

Hear them gripe about some song or music I like (I used to be in the everything but country/rap but I've found examples in those genres I enjoy)

Most of the people who are closest to me are certain I'm clinically insane (which I am, but often they think that because I said something that was logical, they couldn't/didn't want to understand and defaulted to, "well he is certified nuts")

Basically, everyone looks sideways at me eventually and seriously wonders. Doesn't stop me unless they can prove to me I've gone too far in the wrong direction (which is rare).

How much more individual do you want?
 

Neesa

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curlycrouton said:
If you're saying individuality is dead, it was never alive. Humans will also seek to emulate their peers, whether it's subconciously or conciously. It's an evolutionary trait, basically saying "I recognise the social norm, I am conforming, please don't hurt me". It's almost tribal.

And besides, where would we be without influence? Nowhere, that's where. The irony is that deep down, even those who rebel completely against what they perceive to be a social norm are in fact conforming to another subculture, that of rebellion.

And how is creativity dead? That's borderline ignorant. Look at all the fantastic and original art, music, films, games etc. that have been produced recently, and I think you'll be proven wrong.
It had to be alive at some point. Like you said, since we were influenced it was alive at some point, correct?

Also, it's hard to find "fantastic" anything nowadays. Going to an art school, learning about art, yes, there are great artist, great drawing, great techniques from person to person. But most of the time we're trying to get techniques from artist before us to improve on our own. Sometimes the professors even stifle the little creativity we have with their own.

Yes, I don't mind diving through all the bullshit to find something great at the bottom of it. Whether it's in music, art, films, games etc, but most of that great stuff isn't for everyone with a closed mind. People like to stay inside of their little microcosms with whoever else they invite in.

Films. Sigh. Most films that we are subjected to lately are re-makes of older movies. Only decent film that I really loved was "The Wackness" that was in the Sundance Festival. That was pretty amazing in my opinion. That wasn't let out to the masses to see unless you heard about it in passing online. Not saying that the re-makes are bad, but c'mon... It's like putting a pretty hat on a dead horse and hoping people will believe you're beating a "pretty" dead horse and not just a dead horse.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that there are innovative ideas that happen daily. It's just they can be overshadowed by what's generally acceptable by the masses. But the majority will always overshadow the minority.
 

Bat Vader

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Mar 11, 2009
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Srsly said:
I'm going to make a very bold statement which I hold dear to:
There is no such thing as creativity and individuality.

Speaking of one who has been called an 'unique individual' or 'different' more times than I've been called my actual name, my statement has good merit to it. If you look at social websites, like Myspace, you can see a clear example of how being an individual is dead. Simply because 'individualist' tend to float towards people that are 'like them' in order to stay in their comfort zone. What you wear, how you blog, what you listen to, shouldn't define you as a person. It's suppose to be a self-expression of your inner self. But if we're so busy trying to emulate others, how the hell are we being individuals.

Prime example, through most of high school, I got dirty looks and comments from individuals saying that I'm trying to be white; wearing what the white kids wear, listening to what the white kids listen to.. But now it's okay to 'look white' because it's become a Hip-Hop look because of artist such as Kanye West. Big fucking deal that he wears plaid and Ray Bans. How many others have been doing it before it became an acceptable trend amongst the music world. Namely the African American community that looked down upon people in their own race that refused to stick into their set box of Hip-Hop, R&B and baggy jeans. No thanks. Granted that many other artist in, say Hip-Hop have tried to step out the box and start trends in order for others to be themselves, but was quickly faded and taken under the tide of mainstream.

Being an individual shouldn't be solely based on one's outward appearance, but on one's thoughts and mentality. What happened to people telling the world to go fuck off? During the punk revolution, they were the prime examples of making a statement (sorry to sound stereotypical but it was the first thing that popped into my head). Going against the system, being their own person regardless of what others have told them. Now, stupid kids have taken what was so pure and true in the past and made it into a fashion statement. Fucking punk kids. I hated them in high school.

Scenesters, emo kids, hipsters, hip-hop(sters), conservatives all have to put on some sort of costume in order to appease others. Trust me, I've been called a scenester more than people have spelled my name with two S's. Granted I do like the style, I'm not going to let my skinny jeans and plaid shirts take over my mindset. I'm still Alneesa Marie under these clothes. I refuse to be another stereotype. I'm not gonna come off as some jerk ass scene kid that goes to shows and spew about music and fashion. Then blog on Myspace and rant to all my friends from the 'group trains' to feel like I belong. Fuck that shit, man.

What happened to appeasing ourselves. Being true to our real selves? There's no such thing as a ground breaking individual. Not to sound rude or racist, but the only reason why some people might think that President-Elect Obama is a ground breaking person is because of his complexion. But what about his views? His opinion? That is what should really matter. How we think makes us different. Granted that there will always be someone that will agree with you, but it only takes one to start the ball rolling.

But what are we rolling now? Not a damn thing. Revolutions are dead. Change is nothing more than a fleeting feeling to soothe the masses from the stagnation that we've been some comfortable in for years. It's depressing really.

Another thing that bothers me is how it's okay to be in an interracial relationship. You know when it's becoming accepted over a vast majority when Hollywood incorporates it in their shows/movies. How many people have been going against their parents' wishes? Their friends' wishes for self love? This is my point exactly. Instead of making yourself happy, we're forever trying to appease others around them in order to avoid rejection or possible alienation. But y'know what, sometimes as an individual, we need to break about from human acceptance and start practicing self-acceptance. I'm sorry that I sound like one of those 'self-help' people, but it's the only way that we as a world can change. One individual at a time.

It's time we re-vamp ourselves. We need to break apart from all the little cliques, and socially accepted friends and start marching to the beat of our own drummer... Not to the beat and auto turner that's being shoved down our throats by T-Pain and Lil' Wayne. What happened to creating ground breaking artworks by artist like Salvador Dali, Edward Hooper or Jackson Pollock? Or even creating classical pieces whose vibrator and staccato echo through our minds? There are great artist in different areas of the visual and performing art world. It just seems like we're too busy emulating them instead of finding our own. I guess it's somewhat hard since everything has been done in the past. Where has that stroke of genius that they once felt flee to?

God, we really need to have a complete mental wipe and start all over from scratch. Cause the times we're living in today seems to be nothing but total bullshit.

/rant
There are billions of people in the world. Someone, somewhere will have or believe the same thoughts as you. I don't care what people think of me. If they think I am not being an individual than that is their opinion.

Who really cares what people think of them?
 

Baby Tea

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Sep 18, 2008
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Neesa, it's seriously wonderful to see you post again.
You know I wuv you.
Never leave me.

On topic:
Simply: I concur.

A bit more drawn out:
I find that every new idea or movement that becomes some sort of popular, no matter how pure in its infancy, instantly falls into a sea of marketing and exploitation to become the new 'mainstream' and fill that void until someone else's notion or idea become quasi-popular.

I never understood why people gave a shit what celebrities had for breakfast, or who they were dating now. I saw this morning on the news that Nicole Ritchie was in Toronto. Why was that news? Why is she a celebrity? And, even if she had some type of talent, why do I give a shit that she's in Toronto?

So much time and energy and money is wasted on trying to get our attention with things that just flat out don't matter. OK, US-Weekly, Cosmo, and all these other rags scream at us from the news-stands and what is our response? A mindless reach for the mag and our wallet to shell out another $10 for bullshit sex tips and make-up tips and style tips because you obviously aren't fine the way you are. They hide the consumerism and materialism behind the thin veil of the supposed importance of mass popularity, and prey on the social and physical insecurities of a generation that has such vast knowledge at their fingertips, and still wants the shit to be fed to them.

For shit sake.
Wake up.

Slightly off topic: Neesa, this made me laugh a bit:

Srsly said:
Or even creating classical pieces whose vibrator and staccato echo through our minds?
You mean vibrato? Haha! Freudian slip?
 

Charli

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Nov 23, 2008
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Okay, we know on a general scale theres not much individuality within the human race. This arguement is not much of a news flash to anyone over the age of 18 and has been called a 'unique special rosebud' (Yeah maybe in your school and thats like what 0.000000001% of the population?) But we do whatever we can to stay sane.

Creativity however does exsist, but probably not within the confines of the defenition you've set for it. Humans are dependant on their experiences. Which means til the end of time and the end of our existance on earth, we'll be repeating ideas and concepts in different kinds of ways for generations to come. But alas somthing new within those confines is always occuring and once in a blue moon, something genuinely not tried ever before will blossom out of the multiplying pit of already established creativity and revolutionize us beyond our wildest dreams.

I'm a person loosly categorized as an Artist...I'm not all that naturally talented, I just work the hardest I can on it, I may never and have resigned myself to the fact that I probably won't set the world on fire, but even my slight bit of innovation on things can contribute to later thought and experiences of someone who might just.

You're thinking on too small of a scale and frankly a little too emo inner-thoughtish for my taste, instead look at it as you would an extremely boring ant farm, and progress is made, little by little, generation by generation.

Your post within all it's whining did have some valid points but it seems to come from the eyes of someone extremely Jaded. And I know the Jaded, one of my parents is one. Outside that bubble is a big wide world full of extremely interesting people and culture. Who don't even care if they do things the same as everyone else, the way I see it, if it works for you, go with it.

Oxymoronic is a term that also comes to mind, if you care so much about what other people are doing why aren't you out there just being the example? S'all I do. I can ***** and whine about people until I turn blue in the face, but who's the content one? Not me I'll assure you. Be the individual and stop poking the dead ones with an ink coated stick.
 

Gruthar

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Mar 27, 2009
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curlycrouton said:
If you're saying individuality is dead, it was never alive. Humans will also seek to emulate their peers, whether it's subconciously or conciously. It's an evolutionary trait, basically saying "I recognise the social norm, I am conforming, please don't hurt me". It's almost tribal.
My counter-point to that would be that if that was true, culture and societies would have remained relatively constant over time. We'd still all be wearing designer animals furs and sandals, the great controversial scientists (Galileo, Darwin, etc) would have just accepted the prevalent views of the day. It's certainly true that people emulate other people for a variety of reasons, but somewhere along the line there has to be an individual who does not follow the norm and is copied. Just as I am sure there are individuals, I am sure there people who will never have an original thought in their lifetime. That doesn't mean individuality is dead, it just means some folks are more risk-averse than others.
 

Voltrox747

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Feb 22, 2008
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I hear you. I hate talking to the costume rather than the person, and most people have been wearing the costume for so long that they've forgotten how to act like the person underneath.

I only have a few people that I talk to on any regular basis, and those are either the type that are self-centered enough to not care what others think of them, or are intelligent enough to not buy in to whatever bullshit is popular at the moment.

I don't just mean stuff like music or clothes; it's the major moral issues of the day that get to me too. Nearly everyone does things or believes in things that another group is going to consider horrible and get on their case about, even if it was never an issue until a few months ago and won't be mentioned again after a few years. I'd elaborate, but I've cut myself off from that crap a long time ago and don't know what the current examples might be. Abortion would be a good one though. I don't recall that ever being a huge concern outside of certain groups and religions until it came up during elections, then suddenly everyone has to divide themselves over it to the point where voicing any opinion about it at all in any normal conversation will ensure that half the people in the group hate you (For the record, I don't see any moral need to preserve the life of anything that can't think. Until the brain develops and activates, a fetus is of no more concern to me than a plant).

Nowadays, I barely hear anything about it at all and no one seems to care much. If people actually cared about it they'd still be talking about it, so I can only assume that the only reason most people had an opinion to begin with is that society told them to pick a side or **** off. What's the point in having a conversation with someone who's views (or at least the views they're willing to express) on any subject of interest are formed by what other people told them to think?

As a minor side note, I really hate shopping for clothes. I almost always wear t-shirts with depictions of dragons, animals, or artistic designs, an open overshirt that matches whatever is on the t-shirt, and casual pants. This kind of thing is REALLY hard to find, as every single t-shirt I ever see in stores has either the name of some band I don't know on it, the name of the company (really? you want to pay money to wear an advertisement?), or a really stupid joke. I wear game-related shirts on occasion, and at least I can find those at Hot Topic (and that's the ONLY thing I'll buy there...) but for the most part it's impossible to find clothes that are simply artistic. I don't know what happened, but somewhere in the recent past clothes went from being something that's just cool to look at to being the primary way to label yourself as part of a specific something.
 

90068

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Apr 21, 2009
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You make an interesting point. It is literally impossible to be an independent individual, because EVERYTHING you know/do/get comes from somebody else. Your genes, your language, your home, your clothes, your habits, your internets. None of it's truly yours.

Your likes and dislikes, whether you think so or not, are all influenced by others more than they are yourself. If they weren't, you'd be more interested in what no other human has done or is doing. You wouldn't even be interested in something that stemmed from humanity, nor would you put up living with the rest of us. Society as a whole stems from its predecessors, and we are exactly the same.

The only true individual is the first of our kind.
 

Gruthar

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Mar 27, 2009
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Charli said:
You're thinking on too small of a scale and frankly a little too emo inner-thoughtish for my taste, instead look at it as you would an extremely boring ant farm, and progress is made, little by little, generation by generation.
Funny you should mention ant farms, the whole thread got me thinking about the concept of emergence, which you just basically described.
 

Neesa

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Jan 29, 2009
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Gruthar said:
Charli said:
You're thinking on too small of a scale and frankly a little too emo inner-thoughtish for my taste, instead look at it as you would an extremely boring ant farm, and progress is made, little by little, generation by generation.
Funny you should mention ant farms, the whole thread got me thinking about the concept of emergence, which you just basically described.
It was written about 4 months ago when I was full of contempt and hatred towards many things at the time. However, if my ideals are an "extremely boring ant farm" then I guess people that agree and have similar ideals as myself must reside in there with me.

At least we can party.
 

General Crespin

The Lord of Ruin
Jul 15, 2008
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gof22 said:
person who quoted the whole freaking first post
Dude, we read it already. My memory's not THAT bad!

Anyway. What happens if dressing in sharp clothes makes me feel good? Perhaps subconsciously I'm doing it to make others like me, but I still like me dressed sharp. I have this one overcoat type deal that none of my friends or family like but I like how I feel in it because I think I look good in it... ::shifty eyes::

I kinda skimmed seeing how I am work and all but I'll reread when I'm not at work.
 

Charli

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Nov 23, 2008
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Gruthar said:
Charli said:
You're thinking on too small of a scale and frankly a little too emo inner-thoughtish for my taste, instead look at it as you would an extremely boring ant farm, and progress is made, little by little, generation by generation.
Funny you should mention ant farms, the whole thread got me thinking about the concept of emergence, which you just basically described.
Ah yes, I didn't know if I would be 'reaching' a little too far with that analogy but you're right, the whole topic gives me the impression that it's driven by those looking at it from the smaller scale and not the larger one. Some need to take a step out of the farm and be the scientist for a little while. It's an interesting flip of perspective. =)
 

General Crespin

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Jul 15, 2008
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Voltrox747 said:
As a minor side note, I really hate shopping for clothes. I almost always wear t-shirts with depictions of dragons, animals, or artistic designs, an open overshirt that matches whatever is on the t-shirt, and casual pants. This kind of thing is REALLY hard to find, as every single t-shirt I ever see in stores has either the name of some band I don't know on it, the name of the company (really? you want to pay money to wear an advertisement?), or a really stupid joke. I wear game-related shirts on occasion, and at least I can find those at Hot Topic (and that's the ONLY thing I'll buy there...) but for the most part it's impossible to find clothes that are simply artistic. I don't know what happened, but somewhere in the recent past clothes went from being something that's just cool to look at to being the primary way to label yourself as part of a specific something.
Start buying shirts online. I've found a LOT more shirts that I like online rather than sticking to what's in stores.
 

Zombie Turtle

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Aug 28, 2008
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You're right. These days you have to belong to some social catagory to even be accepted. I wouldn't say people being unique is dead, it's just people must feel the need to belong to something. Like I read a while back, back in the day, joining the army was seen as a right of manhood, these days, children and teenagers feel the need tp 'belong' to something to be accepted in this world which is a shame to be honest. I'm sure that this will never pass and it will only develop into something much worse. For now, speaking for the younger generation that don't feel the need to 'copy' other people, just to keep being yourself and not to give in to these ways.

These days it's like you must have an 'ipod' or an 'iphone' the latest brand names to be accepted, which I think is really wrong. We should try and bring back the 'unique' factor before future generations become worse.
 

theklng

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May 1, 2008
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Srsly said:
i disagree.

individualism was never about social norms; it wasn't about breaking or keeping them. individualism was always about the individual. becoming yourself, and using your passion to propel yourself and others into new advancements. many past and present leaders, inventors and revolutionaries were/are individualists, and there will undoubtedly be many future ones as well.

you mock individualists by calling them dead, but you mock them even more by saying that everyone can become one. without going into the detail of my studies, i can with empirical proof say that not every person can act in the same way; it is not in their nature. some people are bound to be superficial while others are bound to explore. some people will always be bound by bureaucracy and rules while others will appreciate the chaos of anarchy. you cannot change the personalities of people; and even if you could, i wouldn't advise it as it would create frustration and stress worldwide.

the one solution i have found to this problem is to change society as a whole. forcing people to be something they're not will not yield good results. however, if they are guided towards what they want to be, then there might be hope just yet. with how it looks today though, it may not happen for another few hundred years.
 

Monocle Man

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- Wearing a sweater with the zipper on the shoulder is gay
- Wearing grey pants is gay
- Sitting with your arms crossed is gay
- Sitting while holding your hand near your chin is gay
- Listening to something else than the majority of the room listens to is totally gay as well.
- Having the top of your trousers higher than your ass is gay too
- Doing what a teacher told you to do meanwhile the teacher is not there for a moment is pathetic
- Laughing silently in a non-hysterical way after a funny event is gay, for the record.

Those are some remarks I've heard in my classroom in the past week, most were directed to me.
If you are different from the rest, you are going to be bothered with painfully dumb insults.

Instead of showing that you're different, it's far easier to just pretend to be the same. Who likes to hear insults that make no sense as the masses ignore whatever you spew out of your mouth in return?
If not, it would make sense to avoid whatever causes such annoyances.

Though I just shrug it of, I know I'm attracted to girls and I know that following a competent teacher's instructions won't end up in disaster, such words are not going to change that.
Other people with a different mindset might prefer a quiet surrounding instead of actively showing it, thus they'll dress up in whatever the rest wears. You can't solely judge whether a person is unique by his/her appearances.
---

A mental wipe wouldn't do either, surely people will be different from each other in the beginning, in the end it would all repeat.
 

Pyre00

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Mar 17, 2009
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Why does everything on the off-topic forum have to be so god damn philisophical?