I'd qualify that with a "within reason". If I buy a camel and then get upset that it didn't come equipped with jet packs, then yeah that's entitlement.BloatedGuppy said:
The issue of gamer "entitlement".
- Thread starter wicket42
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That may be exactly how I handle the situation myself actually. Bioware tricked me once (DA2) shame on them. Tricked me twice (Swtor) shame on me... Tricked me a third time...? I really needed to finish the trilogy XPDrVornoff said:
I don't like to be the one that says "I will no longer buy games from this company because of X", but I will definitely be far more wary of an future business with this company and this particular brand.
Here's my two cents:
If it's on the disc, you're entitled to it. You paid the 60 bucks for the content, and if it's buried in the disc, at that point, it's just content that is being withheld for more money. Hence why people are so pissed about the From Ashes DLC being found on the Mass Effect 3 disc.
If I pay 60 bucks, I expect a working, optimized product, with all of the content contained on said disc. That is what I am entitled to as a paying customer, and a gamer.
Post-launch, it's completely up to the developers. I like to use the "pie" analogy, because it holds a lot of weight when talking about DLC and content in general:
Despite my feelings about Rockstar's lackluster PC ports of late, they understand how DLC is supposed to function:
It's content in addition to the content you already have. Hence paying money for another pie, not the rest of your pie.
If it's on the disc, you're entitled to it. You paid the 60 bucks for the content, and if it's buried in the disc, at that point, it's just content that is being withheld for more money. Hence why people are so pissed about the From Ashes DLC being found on the Mass Effect 3 disc.
If I pay 60 bucks, I expect a working, optimized product, with all of the content contained on said disc. That is what I am entitled to as a paying customer, and a gamer.
Post-launch, it's completely up to the developers. I like to use the "pie" analogy, because it holds a lot of weight when talking about DLC and content in general:
It's content in addition to the content you already have. Hence paying money for another pie, not the rest of your pie.
sigh....
What is a gamer entitled too? a game for a certain amount of money based on the games average play time, including replays and whatnot, also a working one.
We are not entitled to a good/bad game, thats based on the players choice not the company or critics, we like the game or not, that is our choice, the company just makes the game. Anyone who buys a game on purpose just to hate it, is just a big old idiot.
Add-ons are we are not entitled to, they add extra things to the game, we pay for the extra bits.
Also entitlment is more or less whining, but with more annoyence.
What is a gamer entitled too? a game for a certain amount of money based on the games average play time, including replays and whatnot, also a working one.
We are not entitled to a good/bad game, thats based on the players choice not the company or critics, we like the game or not, that is our choice, the company just makes the game. Anyone who buys a game on purpose just to hate it, is just a big old idiot.
Add-ons are we are not entitled to, they add extra things to the game, we pay for the extra bits.
Also entitlment is more or less whining, but with more annoyence.
I don't think we deserve it, I think that DLC is overpaying for content and day one DLC should not exist at all.Capitano Segnaposto said:
Thanks for the tip. I have never bought any DLC at all but that scheme is growing and growing.WoW Killer said:
What about expansion packs? I'd feel a lot more comfortable paying 30 euro for half a game than 10-15 euro for one billionth of a game.
>implying that I consider GTA IV's expansion packs "dlc"bahumat42 said:
If I get what can be considered a "full game" it's an expansion pack by my 2000's standards.
I'm not a fan of beat 'em ups or RPGs so forgive me for not knowing about those examples.
One of the big problems is that there really are entitlement issues, but the word "entitlement" is thrown around so loosely as to be devoid of all meaning in gaming.wicket42 said:
"Entitlement" in and of itself shouldn't carry an inherrently negative meaning. We are, as consumers, entitled to certain things. We can reasonably expect a working product. We used to be able to expect a certain level of honesty from the producers of the product. Nowadays, outright lies are permissable because we made it so.
It's when we get into the mentality that were are owed extra that it becomes a problem. The guy everyone linked to around here from Youtube who complained that we were, in fact, entitled to the Prothean DLC for free? Yeah, that's problematic.
"Consumerism" is dead, though. These days, asking for more product for less or even asking for a satisfactory product gets labeled entitlement, because consumers are wallets with legs and many are proud to not give a damn.
It's also worth noting that he planned on another book, the incomplete version released as "The Salmon of Doubt," before his passing. And someone else has released a sixth book with the blessings of Adams' estate and apparently using Adams' own notes.ravenshrike said:
Arthur Conan Doyle retconned Sherlock Holmes' death. The Reichenbach falls were to be the end of Sherlock, until Holmes returned in new Doyle-penned adventures. His "end" was also retconned in general, as instead of a death fighting his archrival Moriarty, he retired and kept bees or some such.
Neither author did so because of fan demand, though, at least not apparently. Adams started writing a Dirk Gently book that became a HHGTTG book, and Doyle may have caved to the monetary element, but that alone isn't really so much fans directly.
Still, these are pretty rare retcons.
This is more or less how I feel. I'm not going to go out and say that I'm entitled to free all the time, I just expect that if I pay for the game, I'm not getting a shit product. As a PC gamer it's even more so for me these days. If I buy a game that is so shit optimized because the QA team didn't bother to do proper testing, of course I'm entitled to be ticked off about it. Or when a dev doesn't bother to put in proper features into the game because all they did was copy/paste the game for PC platform.Hazy said:Here's my two cents:If it's on the disc, you're entitled to it. You paid the 60 bucks for the content, and if it's buried in the disc, at that point, it's just content that is being withheld for more money. Hence why people are so pissed about the From Ashes DLC being found on the Mass Effect 3 disc.
If I pay 60 bucks, I expect a working, optimized product, with all of the content contained on said disc. That is what I am entitled to as a paying customer, and a gamer.
Post-launch, it's completely up to the developers. I like to use the "pie" analogy, because it holds a lot of weight when talking about DLC and content in general:
Despite my feelings about Rockstar's lackluster PC ports of late, they understand how DLC is supposed to function:
It's content in addition to the content you already have. Hence paying money for another pie, not the rest of your pie.
my whole issue is basically this, if they are gunna sell day one DLC why not just jack the price of the game up 10 dollars and give me the entire thing? Fuck man, just put the game up for what you think is a fair price for full content and if I can afford it and the game looks good enough I'll buy it.
DLC just makes me feel like I'm being nickel and dimed at an auto dealership
DLC just makes me feel like I'm being nickel and dimed at an auto dealership
If I shell out £40/$60 for a game, I want to be rewarded not punished for giving the retailer/publisher my money. At least as far as I'm concerned, "entitlement" is something some publishers feel they have over the money I work damn hard for.Fappy said:
While some publishers continue to attempt to punish me for spending my own money on their product with insulting EULAs, farcical DRM, zero day DLC, crap like SOPA and identikit game experiences, I will be happy to spend my money on something else. I boycotted so many games last year that I saved enough for a decent PC; unhappy with Microsoft, traded my 360 and games in, and bought over 80 PC games in the Holiday sales on various digital distribution sites from the proceeds (over half of which I haven't had time to play yet.)
I don't want to and will not pirate - I want to support he devs who provide me with the entertainment I crave which is why I have switched to digital distribution. While some publishers continue to blame the likes of me for all their shortcomings, I will contribute to their problems by refusing to buy their stuff and ignore them, meanwhile I support indie devs and the more reasonable publishers with whatever means I have... and it feels good when they say thanks.
While I couldn't resist playing ME3, I did play it at a friends house on his 360 and was pleased that I didn't buy it for my own reasons. My friend was so annoyed by ME3 he traded it in on the day he finished it - along with his 360. Older Escapists may remember the videogame crash of '83... now I doubt the backlash from ME3 would trigger an event like that, but I honestly think we are one bad game away from a similar crash. I believe it's called consumer trust, and if more "reasonable" gamers like you stop trusting I fear for the future. I strongly suspect that should the worst happen to the gaming industry like it did in '83 that those who will cry most are the very same people quick to say "entitled" at the likes of me now.
I want us to stop using the word entitled on this forum for a month or more as thus far it has lost all meaning to me with how frivolously we have thrown it around in respect to ME 3.
Oh boy, how dare people demand value for their games. How "entitled" of them...
Seriously, when games are as expensive as they are now..and easily costing MORE for special editions and dlc, people get nervous about making a purchase because they need to know it wont be a waste.
Seriously, when games are as expensive as they are now..and easily costing MORE for special editions and dlc, people get nervous about making a purchase because they need to know it wont be a waste.