The issue of "Mens Rights"

[chadachada123]

I dislike that some people think that I, a male, CAN'T be discriminated against. As if, because some other people with my gender or skin color happen to be the richest or most powerful, that I'm somehow shielded from the same bullshit that women get, or at least similar amounts of bullshit with a different label.

With the way society treats men in regards to children, there are many adult males out there today that, if a child was lost, would not help the child for fear of being labelled a "pedophile." You never see that kind of treatment towards a female. Yes, this is, in my opinion, the exact same level of prejudice that women experience in the "stereotyping" field, and it's sad that men can't express this without being labelled by some as being "entitled" or "whiny." There are other problems too, but they've been posted already so I feel little need to post those as well. The "sexual predator" label is the most offensive to me, along with the child custody and alimony discrepancy.

This thread seems pretty tame, on both sides, compared to things I've seen on other sites before, so I give props to that.

 

[chadachada123]

Well aside from all the other references I would just point out that what this backlash stems from is two fold. The emmasculation of men within this generation and the males who perpetuate it as well as this being the first generation in the last thousand years or so where being white, male or christian is a bad thing, and being all three makes you just short of the devil incarnate. So in western cultures where males are in slight majority but are demeaned and treated to the stature of a minority over societal constriction, you really cant expect there to not be some sort of backlash, or at the very least resistance to it.

I honestly cant help but to wonder if one is not the cause of the other.

Slight minority*

Women outnumber men slightly in the US. In China it's the strict opposite, but here boys die more often and younger.

 

[BlackWidower]

This might sound naive, but how about we try something new. We stop judging people based on gender/age/race/ancestry/nationality and just start judging people based on who they are as people.

Stop saying all women suck, just because one cut you off in traffic; Stop saying all asians suck, just because one hit the curb while he was trying to park; and Stop saying all men suck, just because one called you sweet-cheeks in the office yesterday.

Not to say there isn't a problem, but fixing it starts with the idea that we're all the same, regardless of our physical appearance.

 

[Vault101]

This might sound naive, but how about we try something new. We stop judging people based on gender/age/race/ancestry/nationality and just start judging people based on who they are as people.

Stop saying all women suck, just because one cut you off in traffic; Stop saying all asians suck, just because one hit the curb while he was trying to park; and Stop saying all men suck, just because one called you sweet-cheeks in the office yesterday.

Not to say there isn't a problem, but fixing it starts with the idea that we're all the same, regardless of our physical appearance.

that would require some people pull their heads out of their asses and gain some perspective..which Im afraid might be too much to hope for

 

[RandV80]

Throwing my own city under the bus, here's an article (probably some bias so don't take it completely at face value) from a women's perspective decrying the decline in quality of men in Vancouver, much of which can be related back to this topic on the decline of "Mens Rights".

http://www.vanmag.com/News_and_Features/Do_Vancouver_Men_Suck

It's a long article so of particular interest is the last paragraph on page one, and for a laugh on good dating etiquette the last paragraph on page 4 ('the grind' is a popular hiking trail from the base of a mountain up to a ski hill, where you finish at the resort lodge and can take a gondola back down in the summer).

 

[sketch_zeppelin]

yeah, as a guy i do see the world slowly shifting to favor women and to that i say "Thank God"

I honestly think we could stand to find out what a more woman centric world would be like. I'm tired of living in one thats mostly run by rich white christian males.

 

[Tarrker]

I'm not so sure if someone covered this already or not but I, personally, can't STAND the penchant of cultures the world over to try and force their peoples to be one way or the other just because of their gender. It is absurd to the point of laughter when I hear of one mother yelling at another mother for putting her 1 year old son in pink clothes. "You'll turn him into a pussy" or "You'll make him gay." and people HONESTLY believe this malarkey. I tell people that I played with Barbie toys when I was a kid and they won't even let me finish saying HOW I played with them before they start in on the gay and wussy comments. The same is true for girls too. Every once in a while I still get that concerned look from another adult when I tell them about my sister going out for softball. "Oh, so she's a real Tomboy then?". NO! She's actually the girliest one of my sisters, if you MUST know. Seriously, fuck gender roles. We DO NOT need them in this modern society.

 

[Setrus]

on the other hand, taking a piss standing up IS pretty sweet, though.

On the whole topic I just roll my eyes, because the idea of men being oppressed all of a sudden by women just shows how little empathy there seems to be in the world, it seems these people complaining about their position are unable to step into another's shoes and see that their own position isn't all that bad...

Though I had to comment on this little thing, because Kevin reminded me of when I was in school at gym and these other guys opened the toilet door in the bathroom and found another guy there SITTING DOWN as he peed.
I still remember the crap he got for that...it was obscene really, I for one don't mind sitting down now and again so I can read something or the like, but apparently that's unmanly. (sadly, I didn't speak up in this guy's defence, what do you want from me, I was bullied enough as it is and grateful someone else was the target for a change) Basically he was made a target because since a man CAN do something he SHOULD do it, otherwise he's less of a man.

So if anything men and the forcing to behave as men "should" is largely driven BY men... *shrugs* (Heh, you find a girl demanding that a guy pees standing up! :-D )

 

[ImperialSunlight]

I think the biggest problem with these rights groups is that they are "women's" rights groups and "Men's" rights groups. It should be a group composed of men and women that fights for EQUALITY of rights, not increased rights for a particular gender.

You're putting ridiculous importance on a name over anything anyone actually says. And sometimes increased rights are called for. Namely when rights are lacking for them in the first place.

I never said anything about their names. I said that the groups should be focused on equality of rights and have men and women working together to accomplish this rather than having two separate groups of men and women each fighting for their rights.

Also, by "not increased rights for a particular gender", I meant that the group should work for the improvement of the rights of both men and women and equality between the two rather than do so only for a specific gender, ignoring injustices toward the other. I made that unclear when I said "equality of rights". It seems to mean all parties having equal rights, regardless of the sufficiency of the rights. That was a mistake.

 

[Arakasi]

Whenever a minority is suppressed, then rehabilitated, they tend to surpass the oppressors in terms of rights, and if not rights, opportunities.
It is in-fucking-credibly common and it pisses me off to no end.

I really doubt that it actually ever happens so much as people complain that it does without any kind of reasonable evidence.

In that case I find it odd that my government asks on practically every school-related form AND test whether or not I am Aboriginal.
Not to mention that they ask that on things like Centerlink (Social Security) forms, and I know for a fact that there are special scholarships for Aboriginal people only.
Now if that isn't some kind of racist I don't know what is.

 

[Savagezion]

I do support this stuff because it makes one thing abundantly clear.

Life isn't fair, to anyone. Again, to anyone. Activist need to have at least a nudge of understanding in that. To that, I can sympathize with MRA as much as I sympathize with any activists. Activists have a tendency to forget there are many angles to human behavior.

But you specifically stated you wanted to start a discussion on men's rights. Even if you admitted the guy was an extremist, your post still encourages people to bash on MRA. This post only serves to further ostracize a movement that is severely misunderstood on these forums.

"Severely misunderstood?"

The more writing I read by self-professed men's rights activists, the more I see hateful, irrational bigotry supported by emotive rhetoric and unsupported by empirical evidence.

Just because someone doesn't agree doesn't mean they don't understand.

They all do it. White males have nothing to complain about, is as stupid as saying black females have nothing to complain about. The system is unfair all around, but it is less fair to some than others. That is not to say it is fair to those people and not fair to these people. Any race, religion, or sex is treated unfairly on any given day.

Activists just need to learn how to pick your battles and not fight everything. Less is more in these scenarios. If you don't bicker about every minor thing, when you do speak up, people will be more willing to listen.

 

[agentorange98]

See here's just this one thing I wanta say, my mom was talking about this article she read about how the media forces women to adhere to men's ideas of what is attractive. What I'm complaining about here is that of course Men decide what makes women attractive, men are the ones who are attracted to them! (unless your a lesbian but that's a different story)

 

[Vault101]

Whenever a minority is suppressed, then rehabilitated, they tend to surpass the oppressors in terms of rights, and if not rights, opportunities.
It is in-fucking-credibly common and it pisses me off to no end.

I really doubt that it actually ever happens so much as people complain that it does without any kind of reasonable evidence.

In that case I find it odd that my government asks on practically every school-related form AND test whether or not I am Aboriginal.
Not to mention that they ask that on things like Centerlink (Social Security) forms, and I know for a fact that there are special scholarships for Aboriginal people only.
Now if that isn't some kind of racist I don't know what is.

Oh my they might get certain benefits based on their race because of past discrimination. Yes, that totally means they have more in terms of rights and opportunities. It can't possibly be that people are trying to make up for a lack. Nope, they totally surpass.

the situation with the aboriginal people is....to put it mildly, a complete fucking mess (disclaimer here: Im not speaking for ALL of them)

welfare dependancy is a HUGE problem, its pretty much the sterotype, living off welfare substance abuse domestic violence,

the welfare dependancy is like a huge part of the problem (cultrally as well) why do anything? why work? why go to school? the governemnt is garrunteed to give you your money

it seems in this country that the polically correct veiw on things goes againt what the vast majority of Australians think..its rediculous, I know this sounds racist or somthing..but the situation is pathetic....and then you get the one who use it as a crutch "play the systm" claim racsism to avoid responsibility

as I said aprently their culture doesnt go in line with our western society values of "this is my property I earned it, you dont take it"

and I also feeling there was a little "white guilt" flavor back in highschool

Whenever a minority is suppressed, then rehabilitated, they tend to surpass the oppressors in terms of rights, and if not rights, opportunities.
It is in-fucking-credibly common and it pisses me off to no end.

I really doubt that it actually ever happens so much as people complain that it does without any kind of reasonable evidence.

In that case I find it odd that my government asks on practically every school-related form AND test whether or not I am Aboriginal.
Not to mention that they ask that on things like Centerlink (Social Security) forms, and I know for a fact that there are special scholarships for Aboriginal people only.
Now if that isn't some kind of racist I don't know what is.

this has been going on since I was in year 1..and only now do I wonder why? aside for scholarship reasons..is it because they might get leeway for their marks?

 

[triggrhappy94]

How come when ever the term, "Men's rights" is brought up, it's followed by some really masogistic ranting.

I like the idea of equality, there's some double standards that make sense to stick around.
There is the whole, "Women have choices, Men have responsibilities," deal.

 

[Brawndo]

Men are discriminated against in child custody cases in the United States. Generally there is the presumption that the mother of the child is the most fit to be the primary guardian and the father has to rebut that presumption before the court.