Suddenly changing the continuity by altering an established characters sexuality...yeah, I can see a problem with that, though it could be handled reasonably well.
Admittedly I haven't played Mass Effect, but I doubt Sheperd ever announces "I am strictly heterosexual." How would a male romance option ruin the continuity?
Also not played ME, so I can't say for sure, but he might have been established as being heterosexual, or at least implied. TBH, though, not mentioning sexuality implies the "default" of heterosexuality, really...an established character whose sexuality has never been an issue turning out to be straight is not going to cause any sort of fuss.
As a person who has played ME1-2 several times I have never noticed an unavoidable section of the game that establishes him as heterosexual. The only thing that implies is sexual orientation are the various romances that are optional and have to be explicitly chosen/pursued. Sometimes characters will flirt with you (begining of going down the romance path), and you have to option to flirt back or not as well without actually pursuing the romance.
Mass effect is a RPG that allows you to develop/design your characters to a respectable level. This means that there really is no canon Shepard personality, gender, sexual orientation, or even species orientation when it comes to the games. The books and such of course have canon, but it doesn't translate well to what the games have been so far in terms of other options (gender, personality, romances, plot decisions) that already exist.
Suddenly changing the continuity by altering an established characters sexuality...yeah, I can see a problem with that, though it could be handled reasonably well.
Admittedly I haven't played Mass Effect, but I doubt Sheperd ever announces "I am strictly heterosexual." How would a male romance option ruin the continuity?
In the previous games there were only straight romance options, both for male and female Shepard (and one genderless option). This creates a big incentive for players to think of Shepard as straight. Furthermore, they may have even tried to engage in gay relationships with the other gender Shepard's romance options and failed. Now, you could argue that those NPCs simply weren't gay, but I doubt he player even had the option of coming on to those characters.
So I'd say it isn't 100% impossible that Shepard is bi or homosexual, but if s/he was the previous games missed every opportunity to suggest that this is the case and heavily insinuated that the character is straight.
OT: It's never okay to harass people, but I can see why people think Hepler is a cancer on game development. It may be a harsh word, but if you don't want games to become more like movies or books and want random storylines to be tacked on to the story to advance some short of agenda, I'd say it's kind of accurate. Even if that agenda is as laudable as advancing gay emancipation.
Except nobody's abusing those guys because it happens to be what the majority of the gaming community enjoys.
But shit, we cant have stuff written for other people who might enjoy it.
Honestly, no matter how bad a writer she is, she doesn't deserve the kind of shit she is getting and the whole community is just making itself look bad.
Sometimes this community likes to paint itself as accepting, then shit like this goes down and I just have to laugh.
And whats with all the bitching about a gay male sheperd?
My Sheperd has been straight all along but am I supposed to be offended because I know SOMEWHERE on the game is a parallel Shep who is a lesbian?
What the hell are you on about everyone went mad criticizing the dead or alive bunch after it was released, there are plenty of articles and discussions on forums strewn across the internet about how degrading to women the whole thing was.
Also when people hold up Bioware as the shining example of video game storytelling, you can expect them all to be criticized to hell and back for turning out content that any half baked fantasy novel writer would publish under a pseudonym out of shame.
What the hell are you on about everyone went mad criticizing the dead or alive bunch after it was released, there are plenty of articles and discussions on forums strewn across the internet about how degrading to women the whole thing was.
What I was `on about`, was that though people might disagree with what they did with DOA, it didnt lead to the massively over the top personal attacks thats happening with this. Sorry if I'm unclear. I meant, you can disagree without trolling someone's twitter and attacking the way they look.
Suddenly changing the continuity by altering an established characters sexuality...yeah, I can see a problem with that, though it could be handled reasonably well.
Admittedly I haven't played Mass Effect, but I doubt Sheperd ever announces "I am strictly heterosexual." How would a male romance option ruin the continuity?
In the previous games there were only straight romance options, both for male and female Shepard (and one genderless option). This creates a big incentive for players to think of Shepard as straight. Furthermore, they may have even tried to engage in gay relationships with the other gender Shepard's romance options and failed. Now, you could argue that those NPCs simply weren't gay, but I doubt he player even had the option of coming on to those characters.
So I'd say it isn't 100% impossible that Shepard is bi or homosexual, but if s/he was the previous games missed every opportunity to suggest that this is the case and heavily insinuated that the character is straight.
OT: It's never okay to harass people, but I can see why people think Hepler is a cancer on game development. It may be a harsh word, but if you don't want games to become more like movies or books and want random storylines to be tacked on to the story to advance some short of agenda, I'd say it's kind of accurate. Even if that agenda is as laudable as advancing gay emancipation.
I assume you are counting the Asari as genderless which is technically true. There are 3 Asari romances by the way: Liara, Samara, and Morinth. However there is a strict Female-Female lesbian romance option: Kelly Chambers.
As for the other point, it isn't much of one. Not having the option before to flirt with male characters does not mean Shephard wasn't gay or bi. For example there are major characters that you aren't able to flirt with. Does that mean Shephard was not or will not be at a later date? No, as precedent dictates with Tali ME1 -> Tali ME2. Garrus ME1 -> Garrus ME2.
Except that isn't even similar. You didn't have to choose a romance option in either of the games, meaning Shepard, male or female could sexually be a blank slate that hasn't been revealed as either by the third game.
It's a game about choice. They're giving people another choice, and people flip a shit over it? Over a choice they can avoid altogether.
Hell, it's the (fun) multiplayer all over again. "I DON'T HAVE TO PLAY IT OR HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT BUT IT'S RUINED EVERYTHING FOR FOREVER!!!11!"
Why would anyone give two shits if someone else chooses to make their Shepard homosexual, it's their damn character. They have the right and now the option to do so.
My Shepard is still straight, so...I don't really understand why this is a thing.
Unless the thing is that it will be yet another terrible, tone-deaf romance, in which case I kind of understand, but it should be gay men who are outraged at that point, not straight men.
i guess we know where the weird "skip the combat do just the story" option came from in mass effect 3 then, when i first saw that i was thinking what kind of odd people would come up with that, taking the action out of the action rpg
Just to clarify: I think a lot of the hate Bioware get for their gay romances and characters arent because of the gay part in that way. Its not that it doesnt make sense for Shepard to be gay, it doesnt make sense that its taking such an incredibly large role in the games. It seems like 50% of what you hear about ME3 is related to gay romances in one way or another. If they just toned it down a little the hate wave would be smaller.
It's not as if Bioware itself is talking so much about it. At some point they mentioned the option is there, not much more. The huge turmoil is from fans, some complaining about it, and others defending in response to it. Bioware can't "tone it down", as the studio says very little about it.
Jordi said:
In the previous games there were only straight romance options, both for male and female Shepard (and one genderless option). This creates a big incentive for players to think of Shepard as straight. Furthermore, they may have even tried to engage in gay relationships with the other gender Shepard's romance options and failed. Now, you could argue that those NPCs simply weren't gay, but I doubt he player even had the option of coming on to those characters.
So I'd say it isn't 100% impossible that Shepard is bi or homosexual, but if s/he was the previous games missed every opportunity to suggest that this is the case and heavily insinuated that the character is straight.
OT: It's never okay to harass people, but I can see why people think Hepler is a cancer on game development. It may be a harsh word, but if you don't want games to become more like movies or books and want random storylines to be tacked on to the story to advance some short of agenda, I'd say it's kind of accurate. Even if that agenda is as laudable as advancing gay emancipation.
The "genderless option", while technically true, appears, talks and behaves like a woman. A female Shepard that romances Liara therefore has to be bi- or homosexual. No one ever threw a fit about that...
It is true that the games lacked any options to express that your male Shepard was homosexual, but there isn't anything that excludes the option either. And as Navvan pointed out with his Garrus and Tali example, the lack of an option on a earlier point doesn't rule out adding it at a later point.
This is why I find it weird Bioware gets so much support from homosexuals. The gay romances in Bioware games are glorified Yaoi and its rather surprising homosexuals think its great they are being portrayed in that way.
It's certainly better than any present alternative.
..and it's still a huge amount better than the pandering girl-on-girl bollocks which sometimes gets thrown into games designed to appeal to straight men, and which practically noone complains about.
But more importantly. If the first response of people (who probably imagine they're liberal and open-minded and not in any way homophobic) when a decision is made to show gay men kissing in a game is to start making fag jokes, then there's clearly a battle to be won, and I find I'm on the side which isn't composed of cunts.
Sure, someone should do it better, but the cunts wouldn't treat them any better for it, and thus companies and writers which might be much better suited to this sort of material aren't going to do it. For better or for worse, Bioware seems the only company really willing to stick its head over the parapet on this one, and if the worst we have to put up with is a bunch of slash fiction.. well.. fuck it, it's not great but I'll happily go down fighting for it.
Everyone should be offended to some degree by how Bioware portrays their sexuality. However, the same is true to a far greater degree of practically any modern AAA game in existence.
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Its not that it doesnt make sense for Shepard to be gay, it doesnt make sense that its taking such an incredibly large role in the games.
You know why the original Mass Effect sold so well, right?
I bet the same people posting fag jokes and complaining about how Bioware is forcing gayness on them were rolling their eyes at Fox News having a hissy fit about what is, essentially, a highly voyeuristic and deeply offensive depiction of a lesbian relationship.
How is this different? How are the people claiming that Mass Effect 3 is aggressively raping their eyes with its sheer fabulous gayness better than the Fox News viewers who believed that Mass Effect was some kind of virtual reality porn simulator instead of a fairly standard shooter with RPG elements and a few seconds of alien bum?
"If a straight guy can fap to it, it's not excessive" is not an admirable position, and it's kind of sad that it's become the mainstream position which everyone actually expects game companies to take.
My whole point is, that I do think that RPG's should embrace sexuality, but the setting for it should just be right. Sexuality IS important for any human (or Alien??) being, but I honestly think it deserves integrity, rather than simple presence just for the sake of presence.
This. Listen to this guy, he knows his onions. If you're counting how many gay people are in a game so it can go above a certain number, you are officially wrong. Equally hetero/furry/BDSM/rhinophiliacs and xenophiles.
The whole idea of people getting upset over gay, male Bioware characters is a little disturbing. Does that mean people only think gay is fine if it means two girls kissing? Because that isn't okay, not by a long shot.
I don't agree with all of her ideas. Skipping combat and actual gameplay sections is stupid, but when people explode like this it gives non-gamers all the fodder they can take to throw back at us and not take this as seriously as it could be. Yeah gaming has made leaps and bounds in the last decade but shit like this stops it from progressing faster tot he general public.
Suddenly changing the continuity by altering an established characters sexuality...yeah, I can see a problem with that, though it could be handled reasonably well.
Admittedly I haven't played Mass Effect, but I doubt Sheperd ever announces "I am strictly heterosexual." How would a male romance option ruin the continuity?
In the previous games there were only straight romance options, both for male and female Shepard (and one genderless option). This creates a big incentive for players to think of Shepard as straight. Furthermore, they may have even tried to engage in gay relationships with the other gender Shepard's romance options and failed. Now, you could argue that those NPCs simply weren't gay, but I doubt he player even had the option of coming on to those characters.
So I'd say it isn't 100% impossible that Shepard is bi or homosexual, but if s/he was the previous games missed every opportunity to suggest that this is the case and heavily insinuated that the character is straight.
OT: It's never okay to harass people, but I can see why people think Hepler is a cancer on game development. It may be a harsh word, but if you don't want games to become more like movies or books and want random storylines to be tacked on to the story to advance some short of agenda, I'd say it's kind of accurate. Even if that agenda is as laudable as advancing gay emancipation.
As for the other point, it isn't much of one. Not having the option before to flirt with male characters does not mean Shephard wasn't gay or bi. For example there are major characters that you aren't able to flirt with. Does that mean Shephard was not or will not be at a later date? No, as precedent dictates with Tali ME1 -> Tali ME2. Garrus ME1 -> Garrus ME2.
It is a good point. Gameplay, and what is possible through it, create the character. The character only had straight options, it doesn't matter if you chose them or not. The implication is there that the character is straight because the choices are there. If they'd had the option in the original then it'd be fine, the vague canon of the character would've included variable sexuality. But they didn't, so it doesn't.
Sheperd never had the option to casually shoot Anderson because his character wouldn't do that. If in the 3rd game you can choose to shoot him out of hand the playerbase would be all wtfbbq up in BWs face, it just wouldn't make sense. Sexuality may just be a preference, but it is a life changing one. Whether you prefer beans to sprouts changes nothing, knob to vag though is something that has a major impact on someone's life and would be a known character trait.
An example of gameplay and story not meeting, to borrow from another BW game, is in the DA series. In both games you can become a Blood Mage, a decision that has ENORMOUS consequences in-lore. And yet there is not a single mention of it anywhere. Not a one. Considering the plot of DA2 this is especially criminal, bordering on completely stupid.
But back to the main topic, I'm against this because I am against retcons in general.
And on the actual thread topic, she doesn't deserve the criticism she's getting; though she does strike me somewhat as a moron.
Okay, I admit, I haven't followed all of this too closely as the thought of Same-sex stuff is awesome . Now both my chars can date Thane or Garrush.
Hoooowever...This is the same lady that said she'd rather have plots as written by Meyers rather than "by old white men" right?
She wants psycho-stalking child molesting vamps rather than, oh...Neil Gaiman, Tolkien, Jordan etc? Yeah, as the SPoony One says: Worship my ****!
However, to flame her twitter seems a bit...I don't know, drastic? However as it seems the only time Bioware listen is when you rile them up, go on.
Side note: Is her twitter account still there so you can see all those horrible posts? Or are we to trust her word for it?
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. Now both my chars can date Thane or Garrush.