The Jennifer Hepler discussion is taking a turn for the worse

[ImmortalDrifter]

However there is a strict Female-Female lesbian romance option: Kelly Chambers.

Uh you can romance her as a male. I've done it before.
If you meant that as an example, than it can be more attributed to Kelly than to shepard. She mentions being pansexual, and a lot of the actual "romance" is implied.

As for the other point, it isn't much of one. Not having the option before to flirt with male characters does not mean Shephard wasn't gay or bi. For example there are major characters that you aren't able to flirt with. Does that mean Shephard was not or will not be at a later date? No, as precedent dictates with Tali ME1 -> Tali ME2. Garrus ME1 -> Garrus ME2.

It could very much mean he isn't gay. The problem is, is that since Shepard is a PC very little about him is set in stone. Using the lack of Homosexual options in previous games however, it can be easily assumed that he is straight because it would be out of Shepard's range of thought. (I.E. he would never have thought to flirt with the guy because he isn't gay)

I'm opposed to the homosexual shepard purely based on how god-awful the Anders romance was in DA2: It's being written by the same person. It also had no prior context. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Oh yes. Lets turn this whole thing into a massive battle for justice in which you either on one side or the other, and one of them is made up exclusively of cunts. What a stupid way to look at this.

Accuses debating partner of using straw man.

This just goes to prove my point. There are many games out there that feature homosexuals in one way or another, but no one really discusses that aspect of them, because its just a part of the game. Not LOOK GAY SEX GUYS ARE WE COOL YET!?!?!?!

Uses straw man.

Are there really "many games out there that feature homosexuals"? Feature? Really? I'm unaware of them if that's true. 90% of the ones I see "feature" homosexuals either as camp, punchline or soft core lesbian porn aimed at the "titties omg omg" crowd. I'm not outraged about it or anything. It's too pervasive and obvious to be outraging. Mostly it's just kind of tiring.

But back to the main topic, I'm against this because I am against retcons in general.

It's only a retcon if you retcon it, though. Shepard is whatever you want him/her to be. Is your Shepard straight? Then he/she is still straight. That part of the canon is completely flexible and 100% user controlled.

 

[Phaerim]

If Shepard was straight but showing signs of curiosity or if the series was ABOUT Shepard's turn, this would make sense. But Mass Effect is about the struggle for survival against aliens. The use of homosexuality is merely a subplot to drum up controversy for a garbage writer who doesn't know how to continue a storyline to its third act.

As a homosexual, it is the mockery of your sexual preference as publicity tool that should offend you, and not a fanbase's loyalty towards established plot.

This is pretty much why I argue against it. Really it would be oxymoronic for me to be against Sheperd being gay. That is not my point here. My problem is how homosexuality is being used, and the consequences it is having on the gaming community: More butt xxx jokes, and also some about AIDS.

 

[mirasiel]

Oh god please, not this shit again!

Oh wait....*Hallelujah chorus*

I'm really torn on this, so I'll break my post into two parts.

It's a good idea...

Everyone whining about how Shepherd is definitely 100% hetero and this is changing his character clearly doesn't understand how sexuality works. Practically everyone starts out as definitely confirmed 100% heterosexual. Many of us were not even raised with the awareness that there was any alternative.

I know it's comforting to believe that people have an intuitive spider sense which tells them their sexuality, but it's not true. All it takes for your sexuality to change is for you to meet someone of the "wrong" gender and be attracted to them. If you're seriously going to make the argument that that couldn't possibly happen to Shepherd because he hasn't been obviously portrayed as gay so far, then seriously.. what the fuck.

...but Bioware (or Hepler) isn't right for this material.

~Snip for space~

Thank you for this person/construct and their well thought out post.

Although I might disagree with their seemingly heteronormative stance for a small part, that could just be my lack of good reading comprehension right now

I do think Hepler is a poor choice as writer here but the amount of homophobic butthurt on this topic has little to do with her imho.

 

[lSHaDoW-FoXl]

Good morning, Escapist Magazine.

I have a lot of thoughts and insight, but I'm not too sure if I can state what's on my mind or fit my thoughts where I want them to. Oh well, I suppose it's just going to be a lot like making a puzzle. A pretentious one, maybe, but still a puzzle none the less.

First lets talk about Hepler. No, I don't believe that she is a cancer. There are already plenty of games out there that indulge too greatly in trying to be movies - she's not the first. So to be honest, I'm afraid I simply don't see how she is a cancer to our entire industry. Unless she's a revolutionary, I don't believe that she's going to completely turn the entire video game medium into hollywood.

Secondly, she wasn't the only writer involved in the Bioware games with shoddy writing. (Such as DA2 in my opinion) So simply put, she alone just cannot take the blame. If anything, she's practically just being used as a scape goat because she said something that was, for a lack of a better word, ridiculous.

Thirdly, some of what Hepler said in that ridiculous quote was actually legitimate. I hated spending most of ME2 killing a bunch petty mercenaries that were more or less equivilant to gangsters. However, the most amazing part of the game was when I played as a fragile joker trying to save the Normandy. So, in a sense I can agree with what she said. I can agree with her that we don't need a bunch of combat basically stretching out the game (Hey, lets kill a bunch of mercenaries so I can plant a bomb in an abandoned base that'll probably wipe out a ton of wild life!) though I completely disagree with her notion that we should skip parts of gameplay to get to cinematics. No, just no. We don't need to use cinematics for storyteling, we should use gameplay. That is what made the Joker part so amazing - because it was interactive.

I believe that's the Hepler portion of my post so I'll go ahead and move onto the whole gayness issue.

I feel sexuality does have a place in this story, as long as it's done well. In fact, anything can be absolutely perfect if it's done well in execution. Given that their are a ton of gay men who get married and spend their entire lives denying their sexuality I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if players were forced to be a gay shepard in the third game. As far as sexuality goes, there aren't any hints or signals that someone is gay. Sure, there are some fellows that are transparently gay, but only in the same way that their are some nerds that just makes you want to scream 'Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerd!'

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Well, Bioware romances are mediocre at best, and Hepler's are easily the worst written of all of them. I vehemently dislike her Anders Romance, because of how manipulative it is.

If you are male and pursue the romance, then Anders tells you about how he and Karl were lovers beforehand. However, if you choose the female romance, then this piece of information is omitted. While it might seem small at first, think about the implications of this: Hepler changes Anders' character for the sole reason of setting him up for a romance.

What the hell is that about? His sexuality is chosen based on which gender you selected? How is that good writing? That only reduces his character to the point where if you want to get any semblance of what he's like, you have to bone him. Removing elements of his character so that you go chasing his dick is not only offensive to me, but just stupid and lazy.

I wouldn't have a problem with Bioware pursuing homosexual romances if they actually treated them with some dignity. Instead what I see is Bioware bragging and boasting about how progressive they are for even having a gay option, despite how lazy, manipulative, and just plain stupid they are.

EDIT.
Also, I just read the Kotaku article. Wow, so she's being a prick right back to them. And she's bragging about having a vagina? Sorry, but I don't think I want yours Hamburger Helper.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

The woman's a hack.



Her writing is loose stool water, arse gravy of the worst kind.

That's all I have to say on the subject of Helper.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I wouldn't have a problem with Bioware pursuing homosexual romances if they actually treated them with some dignity. Instead what I see is Bioware bragging and boasting about how progressive they are for even having a gay option, despite how lazy, manipulative, and just plain stupid they are.

But this is true of their heterosexual romances as well. They're just as terribly written in DA2, to the point of being atrocious. If people want to march on Bioware, it should be with the intent of having them write less terrible romances. I don't understand what this has to do with homosexuality at all.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Or better yet, think of the Midichlorian counts from Lucas' prequel trilogy. You don't establish a mechanic in an ongoing series and then just wipe it without direction. This isn't about homophobia, its about poor writing.

If Shepard was straight but showing signs of curiosity or if the series was ABOUT Shepard's turn, this would make sense. But Mass Effect is about the struggle for survival against aliens. The use of homosexuality is merely a subplot to drum up controversy for a garbage writer who doesn't know how to continue a storyline to its third act.[sup]1[/sup]

...Did you pay any attention to the massive amount of flirting going on between [male]Shep and Kaidan, and [fem]Shep and Ashley? Because it was totally there, you just weren't given the opportunity to bone. There has been no time in which Shepard has been identified as heterosexual - in fact, there are only a handful of characters in the series who have shown to have a guaranteed sexuality. Those would be Jack (who specifically mentions that she tried it and didn't like it) and Miranda (who I recall saying to [fem]Shep that she wasn't interested) and Mordin (who says "if I wanted to try human, I'd go with you" to Sheps of both genders.

As for [sup]1[/sup], let me know if this makes sense for the first two games:
"Mass Effect is about the struggle for survival against aliens. The use of sexuality is merely a subplot to drum up controversy".
Besides, there WERE gay options recorded in Mass Effect 1 & 2, they were just cut because they wanted to avoid controversy. And now they don't care, because Mass Effect 3 will sell well regardless.

TL;DR Shepard is who you want him/her to be. You can choose everything about Shep from his genetic background to his history to his personality. Why should Shep's sexuality be any different?

 

[jezcentral]

I don't understand how people like the OP can feel that "options" are being "forced" on them.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I don't understand how people like the OP can feel that "options" are being "forced" on them.

Because they were forced on them before, by the same writer. They have every right to be skeptical. Again, we go back to the Anders romance. If you reject him, as either gender, he becomes pissy and you lose friendship points. So if you're a male Hawke, he'll become bitchy with you if you don't take his romance path.

So, instead of you pursuing a romance with him on your own interests, the character presses himself on you, and if you refuse, you are punished for it.

I keep having a bad feeling that it will arise in Mass Effect 3 with James Vega, who will suddenly come out of the closet to reveal his true sexuality that he kept repressed. And all I can see is that they would include such a thing to criticize the US Army's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy from a few years back.

 

[Carrots_macduff]

I am gay, and this digital throwing of feces has to stop. Now.

i am sorry sir, but i can quite positively say that the feces will continue to be flung as long as there are people to fling it, and btw i really like your point about how the whole saving the universe thing should probably take precedence over ones significant other. and just to contribute further to that point, ive always thought it was very unrealistic how in dragon age 2
every single character is completely fluid in terms of their sexuality, and i dunno it just feels like either lazy writing, or you know theyre just trying in the easiest way possible to appeal to everybody. and just putting this out there but does anyone else feel like DA is like the trashy romance novels of video games?

 

[kurupt87]

But back to the main topic, I'm against this because I am against retcons in general.

It's only a retcon if you retcon it, though. Shepard is whatever you want him/her to be. Is your Shepard straight? Then he/she is still straight. That part of the canon is completely flexible and 100% user controlled.

No, if you'd read the rest of my post you'd see why I can't agree with that. However, I didn't link my two first paragraphs particularly well, I should've included something like "and even if they had". So, I'll forgive you.

My point is that being gay is not a minor character trait, it's a big deal. It alone shapes people's entire lives. Shep is not a shrinking violet of a character. Once it becomes clear s/he'll spend a large amount of time with someone, or intends to become their friend, there'd be an up front declaration [sub](I struggled to spell that and put deceleration first, it's sounded differently but could be the same)[/sub] of the type, "I'm gay. Got a problem with that? Deal with it."

It is a big enough deal that if you want to include variable sexuality then you should do it at character generation. That way it is outside of the game and dialogue can accommodate it with minor tweaks, like with male/female now.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

No, if you'd read the rest of my post you'd see why I can't agree with that. However, I didn't link my two first paragraphs particularly well, I should've included something like "and even if they had". So, I'll forgive you.

My point is that being gay is not a minor character trait, it's a big deal. It alone shapes people's entire lives. Shep is not a shrinking violet of a character. Once it becomes clear s/he'll spend a large amount of time with someone, or intends to become their friend, there'd be an up front declaration [sub](I struggled to spell that and put deceleration first, it's sounded differently but could be the same)[/sub] of the type, "I'm gay. Got a problem with that? Deal with it."

It is a big enough deal that if you want to include variable sexuality then you should do it at character generation. That way it is outside of the game and dialogue can accommodate it with minor tweaks, like with male/female now.

I'm not sure that the presence of an option means that this is part of Shepard's character, though. I'm given many Renegade options during my Paragon runs that would be wildly out of character for MY Shepard, but their existence does not threaten my roleplaying. I just don't take them. In the same way I didn't sex up my same-sex compatriots in DA2, because my Hawke was straight.

I don't even disagree that having every character be every color of the rainbow is kind of lazy and boring, but it's universally lazy and boring, it has nothing to do with sexuality.

And my Shepard is still going to be straight. No ret-conning required. Even if that means having her be faithful to dull old Jacob Taylor.

 

[orangeban]

It seems ridiculous to me that people are annoyed at this so called "continuity change". Argue all you want that Sheperd was always a heterosexual character and changing that is just fucking the canon up royally, but it isn't true. For two reasons.

1) In the first game FemShep could go with Liara, so it's clear that Sheperd hasn't always been heterosexual.

2) If you don't want your Sheperd to be gay, then don't choose those options. Seriously, if you think it messes with the canon then it's simple, don't pick those options. Seems to me that people are outraged that there is even an option for Sheperd to be gay, which is ridiculous.

 

[Forst1999]

My point is that being gay is not a minor character trait, it's a big deal. It alone shapes people's entire lives. Shep is not a shrinking violet of a character. Once it becomes clear s/he'll spend a large amount of time with someone, or intends to become their friend, there'd be an up front declaration [sub](I struggled to spell that and put deceleration first, it's sounded differently but could be the same)[/sub] of the type, "I'm gay. Got a problem with that? Deal with it."

It is a big enough deal that if you want to include variable sexuality then you should do it at character generation. That way it is outside of the game and dialogue can accommodate it with minor tweaks, like with male/female now.

Well, it for sure is a big character trait. But i don't think Shep has to be a "shrinking violet" to not explain to everyone that he's gay. Why would you need a "I'm gay. Got a problem with that? Deal with it."-option in a future that hopefully is progressive enough that homosexuality isn't considered abnormal?
I don't know what to think of including sexuality in character generation. Sure, real people don't make their sexualities up on the fly, but the same applies to most character traits. You can't set them all there, so why single sexuality out?

 

[dimensional]

Well its their game they can do what they want they can even make it so the first 2 games were just a dream shepard was having if they wanted, if you dont like what they have done/are doing that much dont buy the game simple. As for the gay straight thing I dont really care I would prefer they just did one relationship well rather than many badly or even leave it out all together the games more about big intergalactic battles than indepth exploration of characters anyway.

As for Jennifer Hepler I have no opinion on her but I do love her quote about her finding the playing of games the worst part about her job thats honesty right there gotta admire that, such a brilliant and stupid thing to say.

 

[PotluckBrigand]

My Shepard is too busy trying to save the galaxy to have any kind of relationship. Maybe when it's all over...

 

[Limecake]

Seems to me that people are outraged that there is even an option for Sheperd to be gay, which is ridiculous.

Incredibly ridiculous, why would playing a gay character make any difference? I understand some people still have the stigma where they view gay men as being weaker (start of banning gays from the military) but this is obviously not true anyway.

And even if Shepherd was stone cold gay what difference would it make? I'm not a nuclear war survivor, an orc, a woman, a cop, a witch, dead, professional assassin or space marine, and even though I play them in games it won't turn me into any of those.

The only argument I can think of is that players often create themselves in shepherds place, but even then being gay is only an option. just like flirting with the delivery boy is an option, one you probably won't take today but it's always an option.