The old belt (Parents using violence to correct you)

[Valksy]

Parents do not need a fucking weapon to hit a child - the moment they do, it is child abuse.

The occasional handed slap to somewhere fleshy - backside for example, to get their attention when they are too little to be reasoned with. Because you cannot reason with little kids and if they are doing stuff like running out towards traffic, you need to do something quick and effective to stop ot.

 

[b3nn3tt]

I can't envision a scenario where it would be necessary to hit a child. All that does is teach them that violence is an acceptable answer to wrongdoing. In my opinion, it is much better, the first time something happens, to explain to the child what it is that they have done wrong and why it is wrong. If they do it again, in knowledge of why it is wrong, then enforce consequences, but there is no reason why these have to be violent.

Alos, it has been shown that punishment is the least effective means of reinforcing a behaviour. Positive reinforcement is much more effective; so it is more effective to praise your children when they do something right than to punish them when they do something wrong, especially if that punishment is physical.

Now I am no parent yet, though I have some friends that are, and I suspect you are not a parent either.

But its my guess that it'd be impossible to raise a child without some negative reinforcement, be it spanking and not.

Also you say "necessary to hit a child" but that's really difficult to qualify. I could give you a solid anecdote but I feel like those aren't allowed in this thread anymore.

You assume correctly.

Minor point, but negative reinforcement and punishment aren't the same thing. But that's beside the point. I'm not saying that kids should never be disciplined, but I just don't think that smacking them (or another form of physical punishment) is the way to go. I absolutely agree that kids do sometimes need to be shown that their actions have consequences, but violence is, in my book, never an appropriate consequence.

Personally, I don't hate anecdotal evidence with quite the vigour that some people seem to, but only so long as the person recounting it realises the limitations of such evidence. Obviously, nothing is universal, and there will always be situations where the exact opposite of what you expect happens, but it's wrong to assume that because one isolated incident occurs in your experience, that this is true of everyone else. Similarly, there are problems of generalisability with all evidence, but studies carried out under scientific conditions, with confounding variables accounted for and such, tend to be a better indicator of a general trend.

With regards to the 'necessary to hit a child' comment, I see violence as a tool that people use when other methods have failed. Obviously, that is not always the case though.

 

[Mandalore_15]

snip

I think there's a big difference between beating a child and just giving it a bit of a smack to tell it off. When I was a kid and I did something really wrong, my parents would give me a smack on the arse or something. It stings but it doesn't cause any damage.

There is one thing to consider though, which is that kids of a certain age/level of brain development learn mostly through feel, and thus pain can have a very strong influence on their learning. Giving a kid a smack so they know not to do something again could be a pretty good thing.

 

[DSQ]

Clearly the OP has never lived in a black household...or a scottish one. There is a huge difference between beating a child up and disiplin.

I don't really beleave in smacking either, but I got smacked when I was young and it didn't do me no harm. In fact i think the peope who blame all their probem on the fact their parents gave them a smack when they were a brat are the type of person who needed a smack.

 

[Ryan Minns]

Situational, some children NEED... yes I'll say it again, some children NEED a firm hand from time to time, is it the minority of children? sure, I'll agree to that, many many children are raised perfectly fine without a single smack on the bottom but some children simply do NOT respond to the same type of parenting other children do, they'd listen to a firm hand on the backside the same way another child might respond to having their playstation taken away for awhile.

The problem with this is though, you can't really tell untill discipline has either succeeded or failed. That's just my two cents anyway, the worst thing that ever happened to me was one time I had to lick soap when I was very rude to some people

 

[PorkChopXpress]

Meh I was smacked as a child, it went a long way to making me how I am now- I try and be polite (when people deserve it), honest and friendly whenever I can.

Same here.

I got spanked (with paddle or belt), and smacked up side the head a few times, and I think it actually did me good. I know I was a hellish kid at times and did stupid shit, good thing I even had parents who were there to keep me in check.

I love my parents a lot and don't look negatively on them at all about hitting me. Some kids act up, and need to be taught a lesson. I believe discipline and child abuse are two different things entirely. A kid getting chained to the toilet and burned by his parents is child abuse, a kid getting spanked or smacked across the face once or twice is not.

 

[mrF00bar]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

I was 'hit' when I was younger and hell I agree with it, my dad never raised his voice to me except when I was really pissed off with me. Meaning the only time he hit me was when I did something monumentally stupid and even then, it was a stinging slap across the legs not a beating.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Corporeal Punishment is a highly effective way to quickly address and enforce a negative responce to an activity, statement, or action. Successful usage of Corporeal punishment has proven to be one of the most effective displinary methods one can use on their children. I fully endorse corporeal punishment as it is effective, direct, and useful.

However, with Corporeal punishment comes the people that apply it incorrectly. In order for any type of physical punishment to be effective you need to quickly and clearly identify the factor that caused pain. Parents often just physically harm their children when they do a something wrong and don't identify why. To the children, they have no idea why they got hit, which is why you sometimes encounter the 'Cower in fear' effect in some children when any hint of wrong doing is mentioned to them.

in the end, it doesn't matter what form of punishment you use... you have to talk to the child. Even less violent methods can have long lasting negative side effects if you don't talk to the children and make them understand WHY they are being punished.

 

[Ampersand]

There's a difference between violence and discipline. When children are young and want to be defiant you need to show them who's in charge and the only method their growing minds can understand is force. I'm all for whippings, my mother didn't use a belt though; she used a plastic paint stirrer.

I seriously hope you don't have kids.

 

[Ampersand]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

 

[googleback]

In my eyes there is a difference between a belting and a light smack to let them know they're being a little shit. let's face it when we're young reason isn't very high on our priorities. so something that we understand from birth, ie pain will let us know what we're doing is wrong.
It's when it goes too far that there are issues, or even further than just discipline and punishment.

9 times out of ten I think its wrong though. shouting can have just the same effect.

and hitting someone with a paddle or something is flat out wrong, I was "disciplined" as a child, but never like that.

 

[The Funslinger]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

I quite possibly agree with you, but I'd like to specify a few things.

It's about delivering a shock to the system when they misbehave, not hurting them. You should never cause actual physical pain or injury, hence a quick spanking is usually the best solution.

 

[Hagi]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

I quite possibly agree with you, but I'd like to specify a few things.

It's about delivering a shock to the system when they misbehave, not hurting them. You should never cause actual physical pain or injury, hence a quick spanking is usually the best solution.

This. I've never been actually hit by my parents. But when I was very young and misbehaved they flicked my ear. It caused absolutely no physical injury, no bruising of any kind. It just hurt a bit and caused a shock. And that's all it took for me and my brothers to listen to my parents after a single warning.

 

[Mad1Cow]

There are a lot of people hating on this thread because of "IN MY DAY, KIDS USED TO BE SPANKED AND WE'RE ALL FINE!!!" and the whole idea that this is why kids today are arseholes. Well no, beatings have nothing to do with that, it's the lack of discipline. Because parents don't want to be the "bad guy" they refuse to discipline in a lot of cases and often go through the whole "if you be good, you'll get a lolly". What this says to them is "oh, so if I'm bad, then prove that I'm good, I get a treat!". It's a bad ethos that kicks you in the backside when you're not looking.

The other problem is that kids want attention and I can vouch that a lot of the times I was an arsehole was because I wanted attention. I remember being told not to touch an iron because it was hot, did it anyway to get attention (though I was 3 at the time so I didn't know what it would do ¬_¬). See it's not the beatings I see that are the problem, it's that the parents don't supervise the kids anymore and just leave them to their own devices and when they do become violent, ignorant, toss-pots, then they blame whatever they were doing, in this case video games or kids TV...

 

[B-Lavaunit]

I think that there is a happy medium that can be reached.

I was smacked as a child, don't know when, but it stopped when i was 10, my sister was the same, but lucky ***** got to stop 2 years earlier because my parents didn't want to do it to one and not the other. The physical discipline i experienced was only in extreme cases, and always when my parents had exhausted all other options, so we knew when we got hit, we fucking deserved it.

The difference between what i experienced was i was not beaten, it was one hard (for the time, probably not now) hit on a ass and told to get to my room, i was never hit more than that and that one hit made me stop whatever it is i was doing.

I am a parent now, and i smack my child, never even hard enough to hurt, and only if i have tried all the other tools i have, and trust me, i was unemployed for a year, back when decent internet was not around where i live, i have watched enough daytime crap like Oprah and Dr Phil to have a huge arsenal of alternatives, and it is used as a "now daddy has had enough and this behavior ends now" thing rather than a "I'm going to kick your ass for doing that" sort of thing.

Basically what i am saying is that, if it is used as a last resort, not intending to inflict "bad" pain and is used in conjunction with something else (i always turn her back around and explain what she did and why she got smacked), especially for a 5 year old, it can be a game changer. She isn't scared of me, there are no tears except when she knows she is in trouble, cos her mum caves when she cries, and 1 minute after she has stopped the bad behavior and we are back to playing or whatever.

So yeah, smacking is ok in some circumstances, and only if it is used right, beating on the other hand, not ok, im not religious at all and i hope those people rot in a special kind of hell

EDIT: I just want to make sure i am clear, i do not beat my child, she is never injured, cries from pain or is afraid of me, even the threat of violence doesn't scare her, if i say "im gonna smack you" she laughs and points her ass at me, just to be clear, not child abuse, last resort disipline

 

[The Funslinger]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

I quite possibly agree with you, but I'd like to specify a few things.

It's about delivering a shock to the system when they misbehave, not hurting them. You should never cause actual physical pain or injury, hence a quick spanking is usually the best solution.

This. I've never been actually hit by my parents. But when I was very young and misbehaved they flicked my ear. It caused absolutely no physical injury, no bruising of any kind. It just hurt a bit and caused a shock. And that's all it took for me and my brothers to listen to my parents after a single warning.

That's exactly what I mean. And to all the people saying it just reinforces violent behavior in the child, wow, non of those people have any common sense at all. You don't just arbitrarily and wordlessly spank the kid when they put a toe out of line, you sit them down and tell them why something is wrong (no matter what age, it's just something you keep doing as they grow) tell them what the punishment will be. If they do it again, spank them and remind them why. When they're around six or seven is when I would stop spanking and mete out punishments like "no for a week." At that point, they're too old for such a simplistic solution, and the effect you want will have taken hold anyway.

 

[McNinja]

I hate to see when kids get hit on or beat or abused. I never let my parents touch me, my dad did on occasion but he hated to do so and when he tried. Why do people let kids get beat up on, that only teaches them to cower in fear and think that you should always submit to authority. I know when a child does something really dumb but honestly I think they should learn from experience and you should offer guidance. I don't think you should ever lay a hand on someone who is a minor. There is nothing wrong with messing around with your kids wrestling and rolling around and accidents happen but what I'm stressing is that violence should never be used on kids as a solution to a problem that could be fixed in less harmful ways.
How do you guys feel about using physical punishment against kids or having physical punishment being inflicted upon you?


Edit: Sorry about this I am trying to say that beating as a first response. By beating I mean a punishment that is meant to cause pain. I'm not against physical contact that is just meant to teach something. I just think physical violence with intent to hurt should never be used. And regular physical punishment should never be used until the child repeats the same thing over and over again.

My dad used to give me and my brother spankings, but that was after he either gave us a warning (or several) or did something really dumb. My sisters, however, never got spankings, which explains the huge personality difference and the ridiculous disrespect one of them shows to my parents.

In short, beating your kids right off the bat for messing up? No. Giving a kid a spanking for being naughty after being told not to, or doing something they shouldn't have done after being told not to? Yes.

Beating a kid right off the bat is confusing, especially if it isn't something they were told not to do. Warning them then a spanking or something (a dragon kick is not a good substitute) teaches them consequences and respect.

 

[McNinja]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

Why do you say that? After repeated warnings to not do something, are you just going to keep letting your kid continue to do whatever it is without consequences? I don't meaning punching your kid in the face, I mean a good spanking or a smack. If you do it once, you may never have to again, assuming your kids get the message.

 

[B-Lavaunit]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

I wonder if you have kids? I always find that people who are this anti smacking either were abused as a child (which you have the deepest sympathies from me, and i totally understand your position and why you stand for it), or they don't have kids but they have watched super nanny and they "know all there is to know" about parenting.

So, in the interest of full disclosure, before you go ahead and call me, my parents, my grandparents and every other parent i know an asshole for giving their kids a sharp smack to stop bad and sometimes dangerous behavior, how many kids do you have?