The old belt (Parents using violence to correct you)

[Veldel]

My mom once hit me with a plastic clothes hanger that broke.....

 

[blizard0am0i]

Wow this is full of pathetic twats.

The rare and occasional spanking I got from my parents hurt less than the bone I broke in karate when I was NINE, and I effing had the time of my life in the class, before and after said bone break.

Saying no child should experience pain is crazy. Now there and limits and certainly folk have gone overboard and you can quote studies about the psychological damage it does but I think you'll find those studies just as often contradicted but other studies.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Considering I've been talking about how moderate physical punishment works on SOME children, your anecdote really says nothing about my argument. It's awful how your father treated you, but does it really have any bearing on what effect light spanking has an some children?

That wasn't really aimed at you so much as the entire anecdote-fest. I overreacted; my bad.

Although, to be fair, your anecdote isn't really in the same vein as the sort that I was talking about.

 

[Omechron]

This is just stupid. Corporal punishment does not work. Obviously, the only way to really improve your children's behavior is to plan ahead and lead by example.

Have at least one more kid than you need and then when it messes up real bad, kill it in front of the others. It's the only way to stamp out rebellion with any degree of reliability.

 

[Togs]

Meh I was smacked as a child, it went a long way to making me how I am now- I try and be polite (when people deserve it), honest and friendly whenever I can.

 

[Hawkmoon269]

My parents almost never did, because they knew that using violence against a child repeatedly can increase the likelihood that the child becomes like to use violence to solve their problems as they grow up.
That said, i do recall on or two occasions when i was young, when i was being a right little shit and driving my parents absolutely crazy for no good reason, and my mum or dad clouted me over the head. It certainly made me shut the hell up and feel bad for what i had done.
My parents always apologised afterwards though, and that made it better.

So i guess my feeling is that, as a rule, violence shouldn't be used against a child. Its a bad way to raise the child and teaches them to view the world through violent eyes.

But, the odd usage when they're being absolutely awful can be effective.

 

[Jonabob87]

Considering I've been talking about how moderate physical punishment works on SOME children, your anecdote really says nothing about my argument. It's awful how your father treated you, but does it really have any bearing on what effect light spanking has an some children?

That wasn't really aimed at you so much as the entire anecdote-fest. I overreacted; my bad.

Although, to be fair, your anecdote isn't really in the same vein as the sort that I was talking about.

I was giving it because you mentioned that a lot of people were talking about how their parents used corporal punishment and it worked. My anecdote was about how I had two different authority figures who used different methods, one worked and the other didn't. More on the nature of discipline with regards to the personality of a child. Mostly because my thing shows both sides at once, from a single perspective.

 

[Michael Logan]

Beating up a child, yea that is sure to work... Seriously though its illegal here in Sweden, and Im sure in most other places aswell, probobly not in the UAE though.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I was giving it because you mentioned that a lot of people were talking about how their parents used corporal punishment and it worked. My anecdote was about how I had two different authority figures who used different methods, one worked and the other didn't. More on the nature of discipline with regards to the personality of a child. Mostly because my thing shows both sides at once, from a single perspective.

I was talking about the "I got beat/whupped/insert euphemism of choice here, and I turned out fine." Namely, the implication that it wasn't just a matter of getting swatted a few times, and that there's something wrong with anyone who didn't receive the same treatment.

 

[Jonabob87]

I was giving it because you mentioned that a lot of people were talking about how their parents used corporal punishment and it worked. My anecdote was about how I had two different authority figures who used different methods, one worked and the other didn't. More on the nature of discipline with regards to the personality of a child. Mostly because my thing shows both sides at once, from a single perspective.

I was talking about the "I got beat/whupped/insert euphemism of choice here, and I turned out fine." Namely, the implication that it wasn't just a matter of getting swatted a few times, and that there's something wrong with anyone who didn't receive the same treatment.

You mean like this idiot:

Wow this is full of pathetic twats.

The rare and occasional spanking I got from my parents hurt less than the bone I broke in karate when I was NINE, and I effing had the time of my life in the class, before and after said bone break.

Saying no child should experience pain is crazy. Now there and limits and certainly folk have gone overboard and you can quote studies about the psychological damage it does but I think you'll find those studies just as often contradicted but other studies.

"Pathetic twats" indeed...

I get where you're coming from now. These are difficult discussions to have though, as everyone has a different take on the term "physical punishment". Child abuse is utterly unacceptable and to be that can include smacking if done too frequently and too hard.

Even so with some children a mild smack can be more upsetting than anything else and will teach them fear rather than discipline. I think that while there should be some form of protection for children, making it illegal for a parent to smack a child is wrong as I believe some children need that sort of discipline (to an obviously moderate and sparse degree). The parent should figure out what is best for their particular child instead of being held to account by the law.

 

[JoJo]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

and far too much evidence running around proving you right good sir.

What evidence? The majority of studies done by legitimate Psychological organisations state the opposite

The American Psychological Association claims that corporal punishment is violent and unnecessary, may lower self-esteem, and is liable to instill hostility and rage without reducing the undesired behavior.

The Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health and the Royal College of Psychiatrists have both called for a complete ban on all corporal punishment, stating, "We believe it is both wrong and impracticable to seek to define acceptable forms of corporal punishment of children. Such an exercise is unjust. Hitting children is a lesson in bad behavior". And that "it is never appropriate to hit or beat children".

The Australian Psychological Society holds that physical punishment of children should not be used as it has very limited capacity to deter unwanted behavior, does not teach alternative desirable behavior, often promotes further undesirable behaviors such as defiance and attachment to "delinquent" peer groups, and encourages an acceptance of aggression and violence as acceptable responses to conflicts and problems.

A 2003 review of available research into parental punishment concluded, "Strong evidence exists that the use of physical punishment has a number of inherent risks regarding the physical and mental health and well-being of children".
http://www.jpedhc.org/article/S0891-5245%2802%2988318-3/abstract

A 2008 study published in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine found that mothers who reported spanking their children were more likely (6% vs 2%) to also report using forms of punishment considered abusive to the researchers "such as beating, burning, kicking, hitting with an object somewhere other than the buttocks, or shaking a child less than 2 years old" than mothers who did not report spanking, and increases in the frequency of spanking were statistically correlated with increased odds of abuse.
http://www.ajpm-online.net/article/S0749-3797%2808%2900600-4/abstract

Thank you Bliztwing, I have to admit this is an issue that has always divided me, now through science you have made up my mind that corporal punishment is wrong.

OT: To all those people who claim kids who don't get smacked grow up badly behaved, I didn't get beaten or anything and I've turned out fine, as have my two brothers and younger sister.

 

[blankedboy]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

If you love going to jail, sure. You realise it's not legal anymore?

 

[blizard0am0i]

I think the issue here is that no one should be allowed to do anything to their child that will cause permanent damage. And while psychological damage can be quite difficult to qualify I think there is at least enough evidence to state that spanking a child within reason does not always cause such damage.

If we were to attempt to make all things that could potentially cause harm illegal there would be very little left that was legal.

Its the same argument as "if even one life can be saved" which is a loaded and ridiculous argument.

Boiled down I think this issue is simple a Freedom vs Safety issue, and as with most such issues, I tend to align myself with freedom.

Also my anecdote was not an "I turned out fine" example, I meant it to mean that spankings to the degree of which are reasonable, are far less painful than things children will encounter in a normal corporal punishment free life ayhow.

 

[rmb1983]

I believe that the threat is more effective then the punishment, besides, if you hit your kids they are probably more likely to hit someone else and it pretty much signals that all other methods have failed so your already a screw up

This.

Parents still administered spankings/etc as a form of discipline when I was young. My generation was on the tail-end out of corporal punishment. Personally, I have a distinct separation between contact used to discipline and abuse. My dad used to swat me on the ass with his leather uniform belt, and it did drive a point home, as it were. I will say, though, I was never really afraid of getting the belt from him. The two things I WAS in fear of were the following:
1) My mother's wooden spoon. She never once hit me with it, but it was the one threat that would stop me dead in my tracks.
2) Memories of my great-grandmother. She died when I was 4, so those memories are pretty fuzzy and few, but that woman was OLD-SCHOOL. I ate with my mouth open at her table once, and once only. She slapped me so hard that to this day, if I ever catch myself opening my mouth while chewing, I subconsciously duck, cringe, and dread her coming up from the grave to hit me again.
When that woman wanted a new doorway, she waited until one of the kids acted upThis is a joke to make light of her heavy hand/strict discipline.. That being said, she was a very loving woman, but held a pretty firm leash on discipline in her household.

Corporal punishment can have its uses, but in proper doses. Beating your kids every step of the way is just going to create a completely different set of problems for them. Putting "The Fear of Dad/Mom" into them, though, can be pretty healthy. It's all about the time and place, and if the situation warrants it.

Maybe I'm just anxious for using the good ol' "Don't make me turn this car around!" line, though. I don't know.

 

[Sparrow]

I've always thought there are easier ways to deal with kids instead of beating them and risking seriously fucking them up. Isn't there a whole sub-fetish in S&M where people get folks to pretend to be their parents and spank them? This might sound a little dramatic, but I am so not risking that shit.

 

[b3nn3tt]

I can't envision a scenario where it would be necessary to hit a child. All that does is teach them that violence is an acceptable answer to wrongdoing. In my opinion, it is much better, the first time something happens, to explain to the child what it is that they have done wrong and why it is wrong. If they do it again, in knowledge of why it is wrong, then enforce consequences, but there is no reason why these have to be violent.

Alos, it has been shown that punishment is the least effective means of reinforcing a behaviour. Positive reinforcement is much more effective; so it is more effective to praise your children when they do something right than to punish them when they do something wrong, especially if that punishment is physical.

 

[blizard0am0i]

I can't envision a scenario where it would be necessary to hit a child. All that does is teach them that violence is an acceptable answer to wrongdoing. In my opinion, it is much better, the first time something happens, to explain to the child what it is that they have done wrong and why it is wrong. If they do it again, in knowledge of why it is wrong, then enforce consequences, but there is no reason why these have to be violent.

Alos, it has been shown that punishment is the least effective means of reinforcing a behaviour. Positive reinforcement is much more effective; so it is more effective to praise your children when they do something right than to punish them when they do something wrong, especially if that punishment is physical.

Now I am no parent yet, though I have some friends that are, and I suspect you are not a parent either.

But its my guess that it'd be impossible to raise a child without some negative reinforcement, be it spanking and not.

Also you say "necessary to hit a child" but that's really difficult to qualify. I could give you a solid anecdote but I feel like those aren't allowed in this thread anymore.

 

[TornadoFive]

I was smacked as a child and I'm actually glad my parents did. No, not because I'm into that kind of thing, but because I think it was an effective way of punishing a child. And it's not affected me in any way (that I know of). I'm not a violent person, I'm polite and well-mannered and I think my upbringing had a big part to play in that.

 

[Neonic-Ink]

Look at the kids today. Ever since spankings and shit have been considered "violence against children"; kids have turned into little assholes because they don't respect anything and then they end up being coddled and brought up to believe that they can get away with anything.

My dad, he spanked me and I learned that being a little asshole was obviously a bad thing to do and I learned from it and I was brought up as a respectable kid who didn't sass anyone

My mother beat me and verbally abused me for nothing or as she said, "You do everything wrong." and I ended up being defiant against her.

There is a difference between physical discipline and mindlessly thrashing a child.