The Problem with Piracy...

[tofulove]

tofulove and the satan guy,

this isn't directed at any particular post of yours, but you definitely misunderstand what we are saying.

You both think that society somehow constitutes the right simply for being ultimately preimposed on individuals. the "right" thing to do has been debated for years, and yet you both act as if it's clear simply because society, our our society has made up it's mind.

That is simply rule of law in place of an argument. it has no place in a serious discussion.
That is the real immaturity here.

i understand your point entirely. but arguing in shades of black and white make for a more interesting debate. i well understand right and wrong is a matter of subjective opinion, and society norms are not necessarily right. but if i dwell in the world of grew arguments turn into a diluted philosophical discussion which takes out some of the fun.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

Fallout 3 much? Moral choices are never that binary or extreme in real life, which doesn't mean you have green card to choose what you already said to know it is the wrong option due to weakness.

Look, it is obvious that whatever we say here is not going to change your moral compass. You wanted to know why piracy is wrong and illegal despite being easy? In these thread there are a lot of good answers (pirasiting on other people's work for nothing than selfish reasons, not suporting some of your favorite games, sending the message that nothing excelent is appreciated but the bare minimum or nothing at all is acceptable, etc). Wheter you decide to thougth about them or just ignore them because you want your next Call of Duty fix, its your choice...

Just don't complain when your next fallout game corrupts your saves, or L4D2 has problems with your video card drivers.

Agreed. good solid end to the argument.

Also, I think we were arguing on two different basis-es the whole time, you from morality, us from self-interest. So, no hard feelings.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

Fallout 3 much? Moral choices are never that binary or extreme in real life, which doesn't mean you have green card to choose what you already said to know it is the wrong option due to weakness.

Look, it is obvious that whatever we say here is not going to change your moral compass. You wanted to know why piracy is wrong and illegal despite being easy? In these thread there are a lot of good answers (pirasiting on other people's work for nothing than selfish reasons, not suporting some of your favorite games, sending the message that nothing excelent is appreciated but the bare minimum or nothing at all is acceptable, etc). Wheter you decide to thougth about them or just ignore them because you want your next Call of Duty fix, its your choice...

Just don't complain when your next fallout game corrupts your saves, or L4D2 has problems with your video card drivers.

I have never pirated a PC game, so I'm quite sure that wont happen. I don't have a modded console. As I said in my original post, I've only ever downloaded DS roms (not that that's justification, I don't see that as moral justification). It's just that people have inferred that that means I am the Big Bad Pirate, downloading every game from here to Timbuktu. That's simply not it.

 

[Calgetorix]

I wasn't aware that I needed convicing of anything. I never asked anyone to, and so far when somebody has I have explained my view. The thing is, I am young. I don't have much extra cash.

So, and I know you love them, here's another scenario: you can buy a DS game. It costs 30 pounds, and you want it. You can save up for 3 months, go to your local store and buy it. Or, you can go to jollyroger.com. Here it is free, you can have it immediately, and there are no reprocussions. You buy it from jollyroger.com, and go into town and spend money with your friends.

DS Game + Fun with friends + other things > DS Game

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

I don't see how being young and not having too much cash justifies breaking the law. The only person on a high horse is you. You place yourself higher than other people.

I'm not going to deny I've pirated some games before. However, I knew it was wrong (and you know it too, I understand). Now, though, I appreciate the time and work put into a game and respect the producers/developers/etc by buying their game. Which I hope other people do as well.

 

[tofulove]

I wasn't aware immaturity = 'selfishness'. What you're implying is that piracy is just something children do, and it's something they grow out of. Piracy is not like breastfeeding, and if that's how you feel about piracy then I must apologise, but you are wrong. Piracy is all about temptation, and especially when the means are laid out in front of you and it's not even a huge moral issue (every time you download a torrent, a child dies...).

Fallout 3 much? Moral choices are never that binary or extreme in real life, which doesn't mean you have green card to choose what you already said to know it is the wrong option due to weakness.

Look, it is obvious that whatever we say here is not going to change your moral compass. You wanted to know why piracy is wrong and illegal despite being easy? In these thread there are a lot of good answers (pirasiting on other people's work for nothing than selfish reasons, not suporting some of your favorite games, sending the message that nothing excelent is appreciated but the bare minimum or nothing at all is acceptable, etc). Wheter you decide to thougth about them or just ignore them because you want your next Call of Duty fix, its your choice...

Just don't complain when your next fallout game corrupts your saves, or L4D2 has problems with your video card drivers.

I have never pirated a PC game, so I'm quite sure that wont happen. I don't have a modded console. As I said in my original post, I've only ever downloaded DS roms (not that that's justification, I don't see that as moral justification). It's just that people have inferred that that means I am the Big Bad Pirate, downloading every game from here to Timbuktu. That's simply not it.

we get your point, you can stop repeating your self, and frankly this argument is getting boring now, its has turn into a broken record. steeling is bad steeling is bad. i cant afford games i cant afford games, lets discuss the the foundations of society by giving vague philosophical discussion.

 

[hermes]

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

Then may I ask what exactly is the point of your thread?
Are you looking for acceptance? You should see by now most people here don't accept your justification.
Are you looking to change our minds? Sorry, but no. If it makes you feel better, I have being there and done that... but not anymore.
Are you looking to discuss it? You don't seem open to other positions but yours.
Are you looking to confess it? You don't seem to regret it.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

I have never pirated a PC game, so I'm quite sure that wont happen. I don't have a modded console. As I said in my original post, I've only ever downloaded DS roms (not that that's justification, I don't see that as moral justification). It's just that people have inferred that that means I am the Big Bad Pirate, downloading every game from here to Timbuktu. That's simply not it.

we get your point, you can stop repeating your self, and frankly this argument is getting boring now, its has turn into a broken record. steeling is bad steeling is bad. i cant afford games i cant afford games, lets discuss the the foundations of society by giving vague philosophical discussion.[/quote]

I would stop repeating myself if people stopped getting the wrong idea about the whole thread.

 

[tofulove]

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

Then may I ask what exactly is the point of your thread?
Are you looking for acceptance? You should see by now most people here don't accept your justification.
Are you looking to change our minds? Sorry, but no. If it makes you feel better, I have being there and done that... but not anymore.
Are you looking to discuss it? You don't seem open to other positions but yours.
Are you looking to confess it? You don't seem to regret it.

and to that a nice solid end to the thread in my opinion, best way to sum it up

 

[Calgetorix]

I really see no point discussing this. You've said it's not a need. Fine.
Then there's no logical reason for you to have the game.
Trying to justify piracy by not having enough money as a logical reason just doesn't make sense.
Only greed justifies pirating a game (or perhaps to test it before buying, but when are you just testing a game or actually playing it but just getting tired of it?).

let the big kids talk this out honey, the statement you just made shows you haven't been paying attention.

I've followed this thread from page 1. No reason to be condescending.

 

[Thingo]

You're too selfish to consider anyone but yourself. You have fun at the company's, designer's and gamers expense. You see, when you download that file, you're stealing. The only difference between taking it from the shelf is that the company will lose a few bucks more to pay for that physical CD you took. You were going to buy that game, but instead took it for free, so they did lose money.

And when you pay 25 pound for a game, you're not throwing the money. You're BUYING A GAME. You're buying hours of entertainment.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

Then may I ask what exactly is the point of your thread?
Are you looking for acceptance? You should see by now most people here don't accept your justification.
Are you looking to change our minds? Sorry, but no. If it makes you feel better, I have being there and done that... but not anymore.
Are you looking to discuss it? You don't seem open to other positions but yours.
Are you looking to confess it? You don't seem to regret it.

Unless I'm mistaken, you've answered the question of 'what is the point of this thread'. To find out what other people think, and to see if people agree or disagree with me. I think it's safe to say that all of those things have been found out over the course of these 5 pages.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

I really see no point discussing this. You've said it's not a need. Fine.
Then there's no logical reason for you to have the game.
Trying to justify piracy by not having enough money as a logical reason just doesn't make sense.
Only greed justifies pirating a game (or perhaps to test it before buying, but when are you just testing a game or actually playing it but just getting tired of it?).

let the big kids talk this out honey, the statement you just made shows you haven't been paying attention.

I've followed this thread from page 1. No reason to be condescending.

actually, the argument against what you're saying has already been made, if you go back and read it. No point in bringing it back up.

 

[NotMemorable]

Wow, I didn't expect this many people to be against piracy. If you think downloading games/software is morally wrong (and thus you don't do so), then I assume you're not downloading music either (or a huge hypocrite). Aren't all those songs on youtube copyrighted too? Okay, most music doesn't get deleted by youtube but is that by choice of the artist? Or does he simply know that he can't prevent his music from appearing on youtube? By that reasoning I'd find listening to copyrighted music on youtube equally morally wrong. I just can't immagine there's this many people not downloading music or watching music videos on youtube.

Aside from that the risk factor plays a huge role in our criminal tendencies, hell if there's enough cash involved and the risk is low enough practically everyone would steal. I believe because there is no risk in piracy it doesn't matter if it's legal or not, what matters is if it's morally okay. It's probably selfish to download illegaly because:
One, you screw over the company/creator of the wares.
Two, you screw over everyone that does pay for their wares, if there was no illegal downloading prices would drop.

Still I download illegally, I guess I'm just selfish like that. Why should I care about some huge company losing money if it's never coming back at me? Nobody genuinly cares about what happens to someone they don't know if it will never affect them, most like to think they do because that makes them feel good inside. I don't give a rat's ass and I come out on top, where others might spend hundreds of dollars on software, I can get myself a nice PC.
It pays to be selfish.

P.S. The "I only download what I wouldn't buy argument" is shit. First off you wouldn't know if you would buy it because the fact that it's available for free shifts your priorities, besides it's a way to easy excuse. I wonder how many people who go by that argument actually practise it. If you download illegally you're amoral and selfish in the eyes of the community, simple as that.

 

[The Lost Big Boss]

One argument is that you should support the developers by buying the game, but I don't buy that. Any game now days is going to be able to be bought used, thus every penny of that money will go right into the stores hands, not the developers. Now I am not saying that pirating is good, I think it is killing gaming (PC anyway), but we must also consider how much damage Gamestop has done also. So what I say is this, if you are getting a game try to find it new so it will support the developer. If you can only find a used copy then go and get it offline, if you can't get it that way then pirate. That is the only way pirating is legitimate, you get a game and Gamestop doesn't get a dime.

 

[tofulove]

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

Then may I ask what exactly is the point of your thread?
Are you looking for acceptance? You should see by now most people here don't accept your justification.
Are you looking to change our minds? Sorry, but no. If it makes you feel better, I have being there and done that... but not anymore.
Are you looking to discuss it? You don't seem open to other positions but yours.
Are you looking to confess it? You don't seem to regret it.

Unless I'm mistaken, you've answered the question of 'what is the point of this thread'. To find out what other people think, and to see if people agree or disagree with me. I think it's safe to say that all of those things have been found out over the course of these 5 pages.

we found out some thing about you to, like how you don't like being called out on your views but at the same time want to here them, silly isn't it. to your very childish and have no sence of right and wrong. 3 you think every one around you is here to help and entertain you, have no respect for others time and effort, and when people confront you on this you just say your misunderstanding my point, frankly that is your point your a selfish ass hole who thinks its ok to steel from people

 

[hermes]

Unless I'm mistaken, you've answered the question of 'what is the point of this thread'. To find out what other people think, and to see if people agree or disagree with me. I think it's safe to say that all of those things have been found out over the course of these 5 pages.

Ok, good. Now you know what I think (for what is worth), besides 5 pages of other people thoughts... My job here is done.

Now is up to you wheter you decide to do with what you find out in these 5 pages, if anything at all.

 

[toapat]

ive been doing all tht illegal stuff but now i am seeing the light...

im starting to get music more from albums and itunes now

think of it this way, when u buy it ur giving money to the band, so they may continue to make great music, they have to make their money, just like us

actually no, not all bands get royalties on their music


the fact is that major retailers (excluding Amazon.com who buys everything in existance) stock games that the company doesnt give an initial investment in. its cheaper and better to distribute your game online

 

[Felated Show Pony]

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

Then may I ask what exactly is the point of your thread?
Are you looking for acceptance? You should see by now most people here don't accept your justification.
Are you looking to change our minds? Sorry, but no. If it makes you feel better, I have being there and done that... but not anymore.
Are you looking to discuss it? You don't seem open to other positions but yours.
Are you looking to confess it? You don't seem to regret it.

Unless I'm mistaken, you've answered the question of 'what is the point of this thread'. To find out what other people think, and to see if people agree or disagree with me. I think it's safe to say that all of those things have been found out over the course of these 5 pages.

we found out some thing about you to, like how you don't like being called out on your views but at the same time want to here them, silly isn't it. to your very childish and have no sence of right and wrong. 3 you think every one around you is here to help and entertain you, have no respect for others time and effort, and when people confront you on this you just say your misunderstanding my point, frankly that is your point your a selfish ass hole who thinks its ok to steel from people

this adds nothing to the discussion. it is not a stance, it is merely hate. I rescind my apology.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

Unless I'm mistaken, you've answered the question of 'what is the point of this thread'. To find out what other people think, and to see if people agree or disagree with me. I think it's safe to say that all of those things have been found out over the course of these 5 pages.

Ok, good. Now you know what I think (for what is worth), besides 5 pages of other people thoughts... My job here is done.

Now is up to you wheter you decide to do with what you find out in these 5 pages, if anything at all.

this is the right stance to take. quit the flame war and think for crissakes, people. Objectivity does matter, sort of.

 

[tofulove]

And that is my logic. Call it flawed, call it whatever you want, call me flawed, but as a young person, that is how it seems to me. And I know that's how it seems to a lot of other young people too, but with music or films. I don't want to seem like a kind of Jesus, but when I speak I speak for a lot of young people just like me.

Then may I ask what exactly is the point of your thread?
Are you looking for acceptance? You should see by now most people here don't accept your justification.
Are you looking to change our minds? Sorry, but no. If it makes you feel better, I have being there and done that... but not anymore.
Are you looking to discuss it? You don't seem open to other positions but yours.
Are you looking to confess it? You don't seem to regret it.

Unless I'm mistaken, you've answered the question of 'what is the point of this thread'. To find out what other people think, and to see if people agree or disagree with me. I think it's safe to say that all of those things have been found out over the course of these 5 pages.

we found out some thing about you to, like how you don't like being called out on your views but at the same time want to here them, silly isn't it. to your very childish and have no sence of right and wrong. 3 you think every one around you is here to help and entertain you, have no respect for others time and effort, and when people confront you on this you just say your misunderstanding my point, frankly that is your point your a selfish ass hole who thinks its ok to steel from people

this adds nothing to the discussion. it is not a stance, it is merely hate. I rescind my apology.

sure it does, a huge part of the discussion hes trying to make is about him self, so he him self is up for debate cause he made it so