The short-lived DC Cinematic Universe may be done

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Did you see the newest Titans clip with Jason Todd?

Yes.

And it was still bad, bad, BAD.

Was Jason Todd supposed to be a nice boy in that trailer?

Because I am starting to think they confused the two Robins and think Dick is Jason and Jason is Dick or Tim.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

On a slightly related note (since it came up), the Captain Marvel trailer has been released.

It sucks.

How so?


Not that it's blowing my skirt up, but overall it just looks like typical Marvel i.e. generic popcorn fare. It's not like it's the Ghostbusters '16 or Titans TV series trailer.

I think its the premise of the thing. She's the most powerful hero in the MCU by far, so there can be no real stakes. Also its set 20 years ago, so we know how it ends. Captain Marvel beats the aliens before they take over, Nick Fury might lose his eye, but he lives, Colson lives, Captain Marvel gives Nick a pager to contact her and goes off into the stars to 'find' herself.

Its the same problem they had with Gotham, being the Batman story 20 years before Batman

 

[Kenbo Slice]

On a slightly related note (since it came up), the Captain Marvel trailer has been released.

It sucks.

How so?


Not that it's blowing my skirt up, but overall it just looks like typical Marvel i.e. generic popcorn fare. It's not like it's the Ghostbusters '16 or Titans TV series trailer.

I think its the premise of the thing. She's the most powerful hero in the MCU by far, so there can be no real stakes. Also its set 20 years ago, so we know how it ends. Captain Marvel beats the aliens before they take over, Nick Fury might lose his eye, but he lives, Colson lives, Captain Marvel gives Nick a pager to contact her and goes off into the stars to 'find' herself.

Its the same problem they had with Gotham, being the Batman story 20 years before Batman

Well they can't ruin Carol anymore than the comics have already, so it might not be so bad.

 

[Zontar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moY78qMJuxM

On a slightly related note (since it came up), the Captain Marvel trailer has been released.

It sucks.

Yeah the movie is by far the cheapest MCU one to date (budget doesn't even cross the 100 million mark) and it really shows. Worst looking CGI then Black Panther's climactic battle (and those where the worst effects in that movie by far), and the horrible miscasting has also been made clear (unless they chose some of the worst shots in the movie for the trailer, in which case I have to wonder why they'd do that). This'll definitely be a contender with Incredible Hulk and Thor 2: not downright dogshit, but not good either.

Unless this is the worst made trailers Marvel has ever made, but given how they tend to have a decent track record of their trailers making their movies look better then they are, I seriously doubt that.

 

[Zontar]

On a slightly related note (since it came up), the Captain Marvel trailer has been released.

It sucks.

How so?


Not that it's blowing my skirt up, but overall it just looks like typical Marvel i.e. generic popcorn fare. It's not like it's the Ghostbusters '16 or Titans TV series trailer.

I think its the premise of the thing. She's the most powerful hero in the MCU by far, so there can be no real stakes. Also its set 20 years ago, so we know how it ends. Captain Marvel beats the aliens before they take over, Nick Fury might lose his eye, but he lives, Colson lives, Captain Marvel gives Nick a pager to contact her and goes off into the stars to 'find' herself.

Its the same problem they had with Gotham, being the Batman story 20 years before Batman

Well they can't ruin Carol anymore than the comics have already, so it might not be so bad.

Given how they're using the costume from the "literally everyone hates Carol now" period of her existence, I doubt we're going to get the Captain Marvel that would make a Captain Marvel movie worth existing. Don't get me wrong I understand why her costume that people actually like isn't being used (not sure what China's feelings on that are, but a lot of third world markets wouldn't let the movie be released because of that alone), but how could anyone in their right mind not think that going the Ultimates Costume route was a better idea then using the garish modern faux-retro one that everyone hates and that is connected to the period of comics where Carol is hated by everyone and each of her attempts at a comic have been financial and critical flops?

Honestly, looking at the trailer and comparing it to Shazam, it really does look like Marvel and DC traded staff on this one, because Shazam looks like the type of movie that belongs in the MCU while Captain Marvel looks like it'd be right at home in the DCEU.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I think its the premise of the thing. She's the most powerful hero in the MCU by far, so there can be no real stakes. Also its set 20 years ago, so we know how it ends. Captain Marvel beats the aliens before they take over, Nick Fury might lose his eye, but he lives, Colson lives, Captain Marvel gives Nick a pager to contact her and goes off into the stars to 'find' herself.

Its the same problem they had with Gotham, being the Batman story 20 years before Batman

Yeah, but we already knew it takes place in the 90's going in -- it's not like the trailer suddenly revealed this.


As for stakes... These movies pretty much have none to start with, and you can still create stakes knowing the hero makes it out in the end (which they all do anyway). In Die Hard you know John McClane is going to survive and kill all the bad guys, but the movie still makes you feel that struggle.


Now, I don't know what the threat in Captain Marvel is going to be, and in all likelihood it'll end up being just another generic evil, but the movie can still create stakes regardless of us knowing Captain Marvel, Fury, and Colson are going to survive. Ultimately what's going to make this movie feel like a stepping stone is just that. It's the inherent problem with Marvel movies, and why they feel so toothless.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I think its the premise of the thing. She's the most powerful hero in the MCU by far, so there can be no real stakes. Also its set 20 years ago, so we know how it ends. Captain Marvel beats the aliens before they take over, Nick Fury might lose his eye, but he lives, Colson lives, Captain Marvel gives Nick a pager to contact her and goes off into the stars to 'find' herself.

Its the same problem they had with Gotham, being the Batman story 20 years before Batman

Yeah, but we already knew it takes place in the 90's going in -- it's not like the trailer suddenly revealed this.


As for stakes... These movies pretty much have none to start with, and you can still create stakes knowing the hero makes it out in the end (which they all do anyway). In Die Hard you know John McClane is going to survive and kill all the bad guys, but the movie still makes you feel that struggle.


Now, I don't know what the threat in Captain Marvel is going to be, and in all likelihood it'll end up being just another generic evil, but the movie can still create stakes regardless of us knowing Captain Marvel, Fury, and Colson are going to survive. Ultimately what's going to make this movie feel like a stepping stone is just that. It's the inherent problem with Marvel movies, and why they feel so toothless.

Not really. I mean we know now that John McClane survives the first movie, but at the time the audience didn't because it wasn't known it was the first movie. And movies have killed off the main character before. Wondering what happens in the Captain Marvel movie is more akin to wondering if Obi Wan and Anakin survive the Revenge of the Sith. We know they do because they're already in another movie.

 

[Hawki]

How so?

No particular reason, just think it's a pretty lacklustre trailer. It doesn't tell us that much about the film, and it doesn't have much of a sense of flow - I find the best trailers are the ones that are entertaining to watch by themselves without giving stuff away (there's a reason why the Infinity War trailer became a meme by copy-pasting it to other IPs, because while I'm not fond of the movie, the trailer itself is excellently put together).

Now, you could say "but it's just a teaser" and yeah, you'd be right. Maybe there's a better one. But I can only evaluate the here and now, and when I think of another Captain Marvel trailer...yeah.

I think its the premise of the thing. She's the most powerful hero in the MCU by far, so there can be no real stakes. Also its set 20 years ago, so we know how it ends. Captain Marvel beats the aliens before they take over, Nick Fury might lose his eye, but he lives, Colson lives, Captain Marvel gives Nick a pager to contact her and goes off into the stars to 'find' herself.

That could be an issue, but looking at the plot, if I'm guessing correctly, Carol Danvers is abducted from Earth. Spends time in space. Crashes on Earth with no memory. Finds her past catches up with her. Spends time in movie (re?)discovering her powers and past. Presumably ends up in space again because there's been no sign or mention of her prior to Infinity War.

Amnesia plots can be done well, but the idea comes off as hackneyed. Like, it'll presumably be fleshing out a lot of characters retroactively rather than in the moment.

I can't wait for Captain Marvel to be the new Last Jedi

A mediocre movie that a certain group of people are attracted to like moths to a bug zapper, who won't let go of how bad they think it is come hell or high water.

Avengers 16 will come out and I'll still have to see 20 pages threads about how captain marvel was mean to a male character and how the [insert] scene was uneccesary and tedious.

Then 7 months later red letter media will release a 40 minute video where they just restate points in a funny voice.

...

...

...well thanks for the nightmare fuel.

and the horrible miscasting

Miscasting?

Sorry, don't know who this is referring to.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

On a slightly related note (since it came up), the Captain Marvel trailer has been released.

It sucks.

How so?


Not that it's blowing my skirt up, but overall it just looks like typical Marvel i.e. generic popcorn fare. It's not like it's the Ghostbusters '16 or Titans TV series trailer.

I think its the premise of the thing. She's the most powerful hero in the MCU by far, so there can be no real stakes. Also its set 20 years ago, so we know how it ends. Captain Marvel beats the aliens before they take over, Nick Fury might lose his eye, but he lives, Colson lives, Captain Marvel gives Nick a pager to contact her and goes off into the stars to 'find' herself.

Its the same problem they had with Gotham, being the Batman story 20 years before Batman

Well they can't ruin Carol anymore than the comics have already, so it might not be so bad.

Given how they're using the costume from the "literally everyone hates Carol now" period of her existence, I doubt we're going to get the Captain Marvel that would make a Captain Marvel movie worth existing. Don't get me wrong I understand why her costume that people actually like isn't being used (not sure what China's feelings on that are, but a lot of third world markets wouldn't let the movie be released because of that alone), but how could anyone in their right mind not think that going the Ultimates Costume route was a better idea then using the garish modern faux-retro one that everyone hates and that is connected to the period of comics where Carol is hated by everyone and each of her attempts at a comic have been financial and critical flops?

Honestly, looking at the trailer and comparing it to Shazam, it really does look like Marvel and DC traded staff on this one, because Shazam looks like the type of movie that belongs in the MCU while Captain Marvel looks like it'd be right at home in the DCEU.

Yeah, I was trying to be hopeful but I'm really not. Carol was a lot better when she was just Ms. Marvel and I hate how now the comics push her like she's the best female hero they have when they have tons more way better than her. Also, Brie Larson is not a good choice for the character. Casting her is like DCEU levels of miscasting.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Not really. I mean we know now that John McClane survives the first movie, but at the time the audience didn't because it wasn't known it was the first movie. And movies have killed off the main character before.

Not in action movies or summer blockbusters. You know Marty's not going to die in Back to the Future, you know Billy's not going to die in Gremlins, and you know Arnie's not going to die in Predator. Yes, even before you see them. You don't know how they're going to survive, but you know they will. That's what makes these types of movies so entertaining, because ultimately you know they'll make it through, but it's still fun to see how they manage it against all odds. Very, very rarely does a hero/protagonist die in these kinds of movies, unless it's maybe partially a drama, like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Not really. I mean we know now that John McClane survives the first movie, but at the time the audience didn't because it wasn't known it was the first movie. And movies have killed off the main character before.

Not in action movies or summer blockbusters. You know Marty's not going to die in Back to the Future, you know Billy's not going to die in Gremlins, and you know Arnie's not going to die in Predator. Yes, even before you see them. You don't know how they're going to survive, but you know they will. That's what makes these types of movies so entertaining, because ultimately you know they'll make it through, but it's still fun to see how they manage it against all odds. Very, very rarely does a hero/protagonist die in these kinds of movies, unless it's maybe partially a drama, like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Aliens 3? Matrix Revolution? Hell Sunset Boulevard, Sin City, Saving Private Ryan. The heroes do die. Han Solo was originally going to die in Empire. Its certainly rare, absolutely, but not unheard of, and in a stand-alone movie or at least a movie you don't know is the first in a long line, its not impossible for the hero to bite the dust.

But in a movie like Captain Marvel, you just give up a lot of that curiosity. We know how it ends. And honestly we know how Infinity War ends, mostly, because of all the heroes confirmed to be in follow-up movies.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

But in a movie like Captain Marvel, you just give up a lot of that curiosity. We know how it ends. And honestly we know how Infinity War ends, mostly, because of all the heroes confirmed to be in follow-up movies.

Worth noting that all the heroes confirmed to have future films are the ones who got dusted, who audiences probably would have assumed would be back anyway. The ones still standing who have to actually fight to restore things have quite conspicuously not been confirmed in any future projects. Marvel saw your complaint coming and planned for it XD

 

[twistedmic]

Hidden Dragon[/i].

Aliens 3? Matrix Revolution? Hell Sunset Boulevard, Sin City, Saving Private Ryan. The heroes do die. Han Solo was originally going to die in Empire. Its certainly rare, absolutely, but not unheard of, and in a stand-alone movie or at least a movie you don't know is the first in a long line, its not impossible for the hero to bite the dust.

[/quote]

And keep in mind that at that point in his career Bruce Willis was not the action icon he is today. Die Hard was the first action movie he was ever in, be fore that he did romantic comedies. That means Willis did not have the action hero armor of Arnold or Stalone and was more capable of getting killed.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Aliens 3? Matrix Revolution? Hell Sunset Boulevard, Sin City, Saving Private Ryan. The heroes do die. Han Solo was originally going to die in Empire. Its certainly rare, absolutely, but not unheard of, and in a stand-alone movie or at least a movie you don't know is the first in a long line, its not impossible for the hero to bite the dust.

But in a movie like Captain Marvel, you just give up a lot of that curiosity. We know how it ends. And honestly we know how Infinity War ends, mostly, because of all the heroes confirmed to be in follow-up movies.

Well, Alien 3 is a horror movie and Saving Private Ryan is a war drama. And considering how much The Matrix was pushing its messiah themes, you could kinda tell where it was going. But seriously, do you ever go into a summer blockbuster, more specificially a superhero movie, and think 'I wonder if the hero is going to survive?' I mean, come on. Especially nowadays when summer/holiday movies are as lacking in anything that might scare off audiences as they've ever been.

 

[wizzy555]

Sorry but the DC-Cinematic universe is not short-lived, only when compared to Marvel - which is quite the outlier in cinema history.

unless it's maybe partially a drama, like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

That was probably more to do with it being Chinese inspired.

 

[Hawki]

Sorry but the DC-Cinematic universe is not short-lived, only when compared to Marvel - which is quite the outlier in cinema history.

Actually, both have had movie franchises that have gone on far longer than both - James Bond, Star Wars, etc.

Even when compared to Marvel, the DCEU has been going on for half as long (2008 vs. 2013).

 

[Casual Shinji]

unless it's maybe partially a drama, like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

That was probably more to do with it being Chinese inspired.

Not really. Movies like Gladiator and Titanic are also blockbusters with an emphasis on drama, though far less of a downer.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Aliens 3? Matrix Revolution? Hell Sunset Boulevard, Sin City, Saving Private Ryan. The heroes do die. Han Solo was originally going to die in Empire. Its certainly rare, absolutely, but not unheard of, and in a stand-alone movie or at least a movie you don't know is the first in a long line, its not impossible for the hero to bite the dust.

But in a movie like Captain Marvel, you just give up a lot of that curiosity. We know how it ends. And honestly we know how Infinity War ends, mostly, because of all the heroes confirmed to be in follow-up movies.

Well, Alien 3 is a horror movie and Saving Private Ryan is a war drama. And considering how much The Matrix was pushing its messiah themes, you could kinda tell where it was going. But seriously, do you ever go into a summer blockbuster, more specificially a superhero movie, and think 'I wonder if the hero is going to survive?' I mean, come on. Especially nowadays when summer/holiday movies are as lacking in anything that might scare off audiences as they've ever been.

Actually these days I'm more likely to expect heroes dying in movies. The world has changed from the 80s and 90s. Media is darker, people are more jaded and cynical. Shows like GoT and the Walking Dead have gotten people used to their favorite characters dying, and movie directors want to stand out more. So yeah, I don't assume it, but its certainly not rare anymore.

 

[minkus_draconus]

Aliens 3? Matrix Revolution? Hell Sunset Boulevard, Sin City, Saving Private Ryan. The heroes do die. Han Solo was originally going to die in Empire. Its certainly rare, absolutely, but not unheard of, and in a stand-alone movie or at least a movie you don't know is the first in a long line, its not impossible for the hero to bite the dust.

But in a movie like Captain Marvel, you just give up a lot of that curiosity. We know how it ends. And honestly we know how Infinity War ends, mostly, because of all the heroes confirmed to be in follow-up movies.

Well, Alien 3 is a horror movie and Saving Private Ryan is a war drama. And considering how much The Matrix was pushing its messiah themes, you could kinda tell where it was going. But seriously, do you ever go into a summer blockbuster, more specificially a superhero movie, and think 'I wonder if the hero is going to survive?' I mean, come on. Especially nowadays when summer/holiday movies are as lacking in anything that might scare off audiences as they've ever been.

Actually these days I'm more likely to expect heroes dying in movies. The world has changed from the 80s and 90s. Media is darker, people are more jaded and cynical. Shows like GoT and the Walking Dead have gotten people used to their favorite characters dying, and movie directors want to stand out more. So yeah, I don't assume it, but its certainly not rare anymore.

I think it's lame if it's done just to be done, if it drives the plot in a meaningful way or otherwise creates stakes for the characters going forward I can understand that.
I'm still pissed about Wash being killed (IMO) stupidly in Firefly.