The Steam/Valve arguement, (Question! not starting a flame war)

[Bostur]

As part of the cons the client could be much better.

I miss the ability to choose which DLCs or patches to install. User settings tend to be ignored sometimes. Lack of finegrained privacy options. Annoying popups from the in-game overlay, which fortunately can be completely disabled. A UI that is very sluggish.

But the core functionality of buying, downloading and launching a game works very well. I never had any issues with going into offline mode when my net is down, as some people report.

I'm slightly worried about the DRM issues and the market dominance, but it could be much worse. I actually think Valve has a positive influence on many publishers who would opt for DRM that could be much worse if Steam didn't exist. I certainly wouldn't want UPlay or GFWL to be de-facto standards.

 

[Pandalisk]

The only thing i worry about is the virtual games themselves, but i keep all the CD-KEYS to the game written on a piece of paper locked away in case my Steam account gets hacked ectera.

This is a paranoid thing to do. I like it.

.

It came from when i had my Steam account hacked in the days before steam guard and such. I didn't have any of the CD-KEYS so when i had to prove i owned the account i was shit out of luck till a realized i had a hard copy of TeamFortress 2 with the CD-KEY in the manual, had to dig it out of mountains of boxes. Crisis averted but damn, never again will i fall into that.

Gotta keep the bases covered with this shit.

 

[Vuliev]

Well, the offline mode is still not fixed, so if you find yourself without internet, you won't be able to go straight to offline. It's annoying, really - especially if you're on a laptop. I wouldn't necessarily class it as a con but it's close, at any rate.

Actually, Steam only needs you to log in once per shutdown cycle. If you hibernate your laptop, you can go in and out of offline mode and internet connectivity as you please without it affecting single-player use at all.

 

[DoPo]

Well, the offline mode is still not fixed, so if you find yourself without internet, you won't be able to go straight to offline. It's annoying, really - especially if you're on a laptop. I wouldn't necessarily class it as a con but it's close, at any rate.

Actually, Steam only needs you to log in once per shutdown cycle. If you hibernate your laptop, you can go in and out of offline mode and internet connectivity as you please without it affecting single-player use at all.

Wow, I'm impressed now. I did try it just now and it worked. Last time it didn't, for some reason. And I'm absolutely positively sure that right around the 4th of July, offline was completely borked - I had very dodgy internet connection at the time, so I kept Steam Offline, however I did go Online on the 3rd of July...only to find out I couldn't go back 15 minutes later. After a bit of searching, it turned out I wasn't the first one with a problem, there was a thread or two on the Steam forums about it. And One user reminded the people that the staff wouldn't be working on the 4th because of the USA holiday, so I had to wait until the 5th or so to turn it back Offline and have unrestricted access to my games again (ortherwise, I just launched a game when I had the internetz and kept it open for quite a while).

What I meant to say with that story is that it must be a relatively recent fix.

 

[DrOswald]

Heres a con for Steam. It really pisses me off sometimes.

For example (get ready for a mini rant) the other day I got back from a pretty long day at college. All I wanted to fucking do is play some fucking DOTA 2 with friends. So I start DOTA 2. "Connecting to DOTA 2 servers". Great. Restarted the game. Didn't work. Had to restart Steam, as always when this bug pops up. Then I got into DOTA, but apparently the Steam community was down, meaning I couldn't join parties and shit. Except it wasn't. I know because the Steam community was working fine for the 2 people I wanted to play with (Skype).

So I restarted Steam again, but it wouldn't let me log in. You know those 5 seconds Steam takes to connect, where you can only click "Cancel"? Well, I had that bit, but it wouldn't end. After like 2 minutes of waiting and clicking cancel with no success, I decided to kill the process with task manager. And when I did that, Steam randomly started normally and logged me into the service. What the fuck.

Now this would be fine if it was an isolated incident, but it is far from that. The Steam community has been acting up for me for the last 2 months. (And after some googling and seeing people have the same problems on streams, I know it is not exclusive to me.) It is buggier than Gothic 3 on launch.

I wish Valve would stop fucking around with virtual reality and just take 3 bloody days to work on the client PC gamers are forced to use if they want access to 90% of games out there. I mean, it's not just buggy, some parts of it are flat out terrible. The entire interface could use some work and the client is laggy. Don't even get me started on the damn in game browser (seriously, don't).

Are you sure the problem is not with your computer? I have a similar problem and I have successfully identified the source as being a problem with my windows install. It has nothing to do with steam, just the parts of windows that steam needs to work properly. Unfortunately, the only really viable solution I can come up with is a complete re-install of windows, and I just don't have time for that right now.

Also, why would you ever use the in game browser? I know it sucks, but seriously. Just alt-tab to chrome.

 

[Vuliev]

What I meant to say with that story is that it must be a relatively recent fix.

Hm. I don't think that's the case, but I can't say for certain. I could've sworn I posted about it in another thread a while back, but I can't find the post that would give the the date of the test. Glad it's working for you, in any case.

 

[DrOswald]

Well, the offline mode is still not fixed, so if you find yourself without internet, you won't be able to go straight to offline. It's annoying, really - especially if you're on a laptop. I wouldn't necessarily class it as a con but it's close, at any rate.

Actually, Steam only needs you to log in once per shutdown cycle. If you hibernate your laptop, you can go in and out of offline mode and internet connectivity as you please without it affecting single-player use at all.

Wow, I'm impressed now. I did try it just now and it worked. Last time it didn't, for some reason. And I'm absolutely positively sure that right around the 4th of July, offline was completely borked - I had very dodgy internet connection at the time, so I kept Steam Offline, however I did go Online on the 3rd of July...only to find out I couldn't go back 15 minutes later. After a bit of searching, it turned out I wasn't the first one with a problem, there was a thread or two on the Steam forums about it. And One user reminded the people that the staff wouldn't be working on the 4th because of the USA holiday, so I had to wait until the 5th or so to turn it back Offline and have unrestricted access to my games again (ortherwise, I just launched a game when I had the internetz and kept it open for quite a while).

What I meant to say with that story is that it must be a relatively recent fix.

Several years ago I had a computer that was very difficult to connect to the internet. I found that if I changed steam to offline mode while I had an active connection I did not need to connect again for more than 2 weeks to play my games. I could even shut down my pc in the mean time. I have not tested this for around 3 years, but it worked just fine for me that way for over a year.

 

[DoPo]

What I meant to say with that story is that it must be a relatively recent fix.

Hm. I don't think that's the case, but I can't say for certain. I could've sworn I posted about it in another thread a while back, but I can't find the post that would give the the date of the test. Glad it's working for you, in any case.

I don't know what you mean by "a while back" but when I say "relatively recently" I mean "in about the last half a year. Maybe some more". So we could both be correct, is what I'm saying.

 

[Vuliev]

I don't know what you mean by "a while back" but when I say "relatively recently" I mean "in about the last half a year. Maybe some more". So we could both be correct, is what I'm saying.

Right, yeah, at least a few months--July or earlier--but I can't find the post that would tell me for sure. XP

 

[antipirate]

Second I don't like the idea of not really owning the games and losing my whole library if there is any problems with the user agreement.

If there are any problems with the user agreement (you refuse to accept them), you will get your account disabled. You will still have access to your whole library but you won't be able to buy new games. I believe it's the same procedure in most cases, unless you have a really gross offense. And if that happens, you can sue them - Valve will pay for your lawyer no matter if you win or lose (if the court case is for less than $10 000). Yeah, really risky there, better thread carefully.[/spoiler]

Really I thought a disabled account would mean no access to my library unless I already had a machine running steam in offline mode.

Reagrds,
Jordan

 

[DoPo]

Well, the offline mode is still not fixed, so if you find yourself without internet, you won't be able to go straight to offline. It's annoying, really - especially if you're on a laptop. I wouldn't necessarily class it as a con but it's close, at any rate.

Actually, Steam only needs you to log in once per shutdown cycle. If you hibernate your laptop, you can go in and out of offline mode and internet connectivity as you please without it affecting single-player use at all.

Wow, I'm impressed now. I did try it just now and it worked. Last time it didn't, for some reason. And I'm absolutely positively sure that right around the 4th of July, offline was completely borked - I had very dodgy internet connection at the time, so I kept Steam Offline, however I did go Online on the 3rd of July...only to find out I couldn't go back 15 minutes later. After a bit of searching, it turned out I wasn't the first one with a problem, there was a thread or two on the Steam forums about it. And One user reminded the people that the staff wouldn't be working on the 4th because of the USA holiday, so I had to wait until the 5th or so to turn it back Offline and have unrestricted access to my games again (ortherwise, I just launched a game when I had the internetz and kept it open for quite a while).

What I meant to say with that story is that it must be a relatively recent fix.

Several years ago I had a computer that was very difficult to connect to the internet. I found that if I changed steam to offline mode while I had an active connection I did not need to connect again for more than 2 weeks to play my games. I have not tested this for around 3 years, but it worked just fine for me that way for over a year.

Yes, they later changed that to a month, and I think it then went on for indefinite or close enough (3-6 month or something, at least). And yeah, that's why I kept Steam Offline, but on the 5th of July I had to go online for one reason or another, so I just used the handful of wireless that we had in one corner of the flat. But Then I couldn't go back offline, even with the connection on. And it did require that, because when going offline, it did another check against the Steam servers and got the authentication info from there. Only the servers didn't work as intended, so the credentials were wrong. Not even wiping and rebuilding them worked. And as I said, it was a common issue but I can't find the thread now (it's even out of my history).

 

[TehCookie]

My god what happened? Weren't gamers against DRM? IS THERE SOME BRAINWASHING CONSPIRACY GOING ON HERE?

I dislike it because it locked me out of my games several times. Also automatic patches isn't always a good thing either, since it can break mods or takes away an exploit you've been using. Inb4 you can turn them off, I did. It updated anyways, that option is as functional as the offline mode which doesn't work for me either.

I still use it because it's pretty much the only way to get cheap games on PC legally, but if I'm unable to play the games I payed for legally then I'll do other means.

 

[schtingah]

Also, why would you ever use the in game browser? I know it sucks, but seriously. Just alt-tab to chrome.

Whenever I'm in a game and reflex click on a link someone sends me in steam chat. If its a youtube video (which it regularly is) it generally just outright crashes the game I was playing.

OT: I use steam because it's easy, and sometimes necessary. I have no problem with it, I could also live without it. The sales are nice, and the amazing download speed i get off their servers is really handy. It means I can buy & download a game about as fast as biking over to the actual game store and buying a physical copy.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

- "You DON'T actually own your games"

Read the EULAs on anything published in the past 15 years. You don't own your games even if you have a physical copy. You have simply purchased a license to use the product indefinitely from a publisher. This is mostly in order to make reverse engineering and product tampering illegal, but the end result is the same. Just to my right I have disk copies of Mass Effect and Company of Heroes, but legally I don't own either game.

My god what happened? Weren't gamers against DRM? IS THERE SOME BRAINWASHING CONSPIRACY GOING ON HERE?

I dislike it because it locked me out of my games several times. Also automatic patches isn't always a good thing either, since it can break mods or takes away an exploit you've been using. Inb4 you can turn them off, I did. It updated anyways, that option is as functional as the offline mode which doesn't work for me either.

I still use it because it's pretty much the only way to get cheap games on PC legally, but if I'm unable to play the games I payed for legally then I'll do other means.

Being locked out of games is almost always a problem of the dev/publisher and not steam. For example steam still allows products to use their own DRM like securom(which will lock you out if their servers are down) or use their own in house DRM which can also lock you out, like it does time and again with Ubisoft customers.

As far as everything else: that sounds like a personal problem; try reinstalling? I used offline steam last month for like 4 days straight. I didn't even switch it into offline mode before hand. It just booted, saw there was no connection and was like 'hey, want to play your games anyways?'

 

[direkiller]

The only thing i worry about is the virtual games themselves, but i keep all the CD-KEYS to the game written on a piece of paper locked away in case my Steam account gets hacked ectera.

That isint as much a problem as you think it it is
the games are locked to that account and that account is hooked up to an e-mail.
So if they change the password you would be notified

as for steams DRM
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/7827-Stolen-Pixels-211-This-is-Not-Funny

It looks like this

 

[DoPo]

Inb4 you can turn them off, I did. It updated anyways, that option is as functional as the offline mode which doesn't work for me either.

I don't know about Offline (it should work, unless there is a weird issue) but yes, I am aware of the automatic updates refusing to not be automatic. It's usually due to a Steam client update and it gets fixed in an update or two. I am aware how annoying it is, though - many people can't actually play Bloodlines due to that (the UP is needed to fix the issue...which gets removed due the automatic update). One time the automatic updates were broken for about a week or two. Right after there was a Bloodlines sale... And it has happened several times already.

However, it shouldn't be broken all the time - maybe go through the forums or drop a line to the support if it persists. I'm saying it shouldn't be like that, I guess you'd agree, this is supposed to help, or at least, not be harmful.

 

[TehCookie]

Inb4 you can turn them off, I did. It updated anyways, that option is as functional as the offline mode which doesn't work for me either.

I don't know about Offline (it should work, unless there is a weird issue) but yes, I am aware of the automatic updates refusing to not be automatic. It's usually due to a Steam client update and it gets fixed in an update or two. I am aware how annoying it is, though - many people can't actually play Bloodlines due to that (the UP is needed to fix the issue...which gets removed due the automatic update). One time the automatic updates were broken for about a week or two. Right after there was a Bloodlines sale... And it has happened several times already.

However, it shouldn't be broken all the time - maybe go through the forums or drop a line to the support if it persists. I'm saying it shouldn't be like that, I guess you'd agree, this is supposed to help, or at least, not be harmful.

The only time I want to use offline mode is when my internet goes out, but since you have to be online to set it to offline mode it doesn't help me unless I can predict the future. Also I'm one of those people who has issues with Bloodlines, except I have a lot more rage.

 

[DoPo]

The only time I want to use offline mode is when my internet goes out, but since you have to be online to set it to offline mode it doesn't help me unless I can predict the future.

Yeah, I get you. But they seem to have fixed it. Somewhat. Scroll up and see what Vuliev said - it requires you to login only once, if you haven't restarted the computer. I just tried it, too - I shut down Steam, killed my connection, and launched it - it asked me if I wanted to start offline. And it worked. I'm pretty amazed. Although, it wouldn't help you if you just started the PC, I assume. But I tend to only set it to sleep, so I'm not too worried.

Also I'm one of those people who has issues with Bloodlines, except I have a lot more rage.

Can I help? Is it the automatic updates breaking the UP or something else?

 

[somonels]

EU pays roughly 30% more.