The Steam/Valve arguement, (Question! not starting a flame war)

[Hawkeye 131]

First off, I'm NOT trying to start a flame war in any way, shape or form. Secondly, I'm observate enough to know that Valve and Steam are pretty popular around here however, I've also seen some people describe discontent/disssaffisfaction with certain aspects of it.

Also I should mention that I'm relatively new to the PC gaming world. I finished school not to long ago and finally saved up enough money to afford a nice custom rig. As for Valve and Steam I was kind of in a unique position in that I traditionally played on Xbox and although I knew what Valve was from the Half-life, Portal and L4D series of games I had never really heard of Steam up until about a year ago when I got my computer and a buddy recommended it to me. I'm still kind of new to it as I only have 10 games to play and I've got a busy work schedule.

Basically I'm just curious as to why people either LOVE/praise Steam or HATE/despise it? As I said I haven't used it forever so I really don't know all there is to know. However, I'm sure there has to be a few issues somewhere?

I find when the discussion does comes up,

The "Pro's" of Steam usually are:
- convience/ease of use
- daily deals & sales
- library selection
- modding & customer support
- automatic patches
- it's not origin

And the "Con's" are:
- Draconian DRM
- "You DON'T actually own your games"
- Online/offline gaming
- "unfair" market share

Your thoughts?

-Hawk

 

[thunderbug]

well as someone who was full on anti steam, and now i have 70+ games on steam i think i can give u a fair opinion.

Its not perfect, your pro/con list pretty much sums it up. For me the good out weighs the bad. But all the digital distro's (save for gamersgate which is surprisingly good but underused and underrated) are flawed. For me it basically boils down to - if i must use one of these digital distros i will use the one with the biggest library as to have all my games in one place instead of scattered around everywhere. Also the sales are nice.

 

[Pandalisk]

Why does Online/Offline gaming become a con? just curious.

Also i don't actually have a an online connection at my appartment and i've been able to play pretty much everything offline on steam so when does Steam DRM come into play since i've never actually seen it. Only things i can't play are games that use some Ubisoft launcher thing and others that use some Uplay launcher like ANNO 2070. I just havn't bumped into this DRM yet.

I use steam because all my friends use steam, its simple to use and it lets me get games cheaper and with more ease than i could before i used Steam because of the god forsaken irish countryside.

The only thing i worry about is the virtual games themselves, but i keep all the CD-KEYS to the game written on a piece of paper locked away in case my Steam account gets hacked ectera.

 

[elvor0]

And the "Con's" are:
- Draconian DRM
- "You DON'T actually own your games"
- Online/offline gaming
- "unfair" market share

Your thoughts?

-Hawk

-Well the DRM isn't actually that draconian, not when compared to say...Ubisofts always online one. I mean you don't have to have Steam running for most of the games, Valve games you do, but other than that you can pretty much just run them from the root folder without steam.

-Given you don't need steam, and you can make a backup installer for them, you mostly own them, plus Valve had said many a times that if they were to shutdown Steam for whatever reason, they would release de-DRM patches for all their games, I know it's not quite the same as physically owning it, but with a piece of software like Steam, this is the closest you're gonna get outside of Good Old Games or Gamers Gate.

-Err not sure what you mean here, there's an offline mode if you're getting at the fact that you need to be online.

-This is purely everyone else's fault. I see this one quite a lot and I can't get my head around it, so Valve got in there first and it took everyone else about 5 years to catch up, hardly Valves fault, the other companies should've gotten their asses in gear, and at least attempt to offer a competitive service (I'm looking at you Origin).

Granted they get you to buy in, as once you've got 100 games on your list why go elsewhere and have MORE programs running, but then I've got no reason to when I can buy 4 games for the price of 1, and get in on the delicious sales.

 

[RicoGrey]

Why do I love steam?

Well it is mostly because of how easy it makes gaming. I have my incredibly useful chat client, that allows for VoIP with easy hookup. All of your pros of course, and I actually experience very few of your cons. "Don't actually own it!"? Well I have had untethered access to HL2 on steam since 2005, and not once have they taken it away from me. There are a lot more reasons I am sure, but this is mostly it, it is easy. Being a gamer for 20 of my 30 years of life, steam allows for a convience that I would have killed for back in the early 90s.

Anyway, the ONLY disc format game I currently have is StarCraft2, all my other games on disc have "disappeared". Just poofed over the years, yet my steam library remains prestine. Take that for what you will, a more vigilante gamer would have his disc in a fireproof safe, but I have no idea where my 3.5 inch floppy disks for Doom 2 have gone, but I know exactly where my steam copy of said game is. It is the same place as all my other games, besides StarCraft2 and Mass Effect 3. ME3 is on Origin FYI.

IN SHORT

Steam is cheap, steam is reliable, steam has always been there, and steam is how I chat with my gamer friends. Except for the cheap part I can do all this without steam, but steam makes it so much easier.

captcha:easy as cake - Actually captcha I would say it is easier. Also 1st captcha I have posted.

 

[Woodsey]

Jesus, we're applying the word "Draconian" to things quite liberally these days. One-time activations. It hasn't changed since in that regard since it first came about, and they're only ever adding stuff in our favour. You don't need to even open Steam to play non-Steamworks games that you've bought through it. It's one of the lightest forms of DRM out there.

As for not owning them, it's a fairly moot point when you can get around Steam as a DRM so easily anyway. Bans no longer lockout access to your games either, you just have any benefits of Steam removed (trading, buying anything else and so on). Now, that is something that should have been rectified a long time ago, but at the very least it's done now.

Steam doesn't have an unfair market share either. For all the talks of a monopoly, it isn't one. By quite a long shot. Other online shops have gotten much more prolific over the past couple of years.

 

[VladG]

- Draconian DRM

- Online/offline gaming

Your thoughts?

-Hawk

DRM is actually some of the lightest online DRM out there, and it's the only one that actually offers services good enough to not even be bothered by it. It's about as far removed from "Draconian" as DRM gets...

Online/Offline gaming.... again... I don't see why this is a negative: You can play your games online and have easy access to your friends and the community OR you can play it offline. It's your choice and Steam allows both.

 

[JediMB]

I have no idea where my 3.5 inch floppy disks for Doom 2 have gone

And I have no idea where my Doom 2 CD has gone.

I have the box, the booklet and some of the other inserts, but the CD vanished back in the 90's.

~ramble~ I originally lost it at the same time as my other Doom discs (containing mods and map packs and such), but when I eventually found the bag with the rest of the discs in it, the Doom 2 one wasn't there. ~ramble~

EDIT: Now I have pretty much every id game ever on Steam, so I'm good.

 

[SlaveNumber23]

I love Steam, insanely cheap prices and a sort of home base to keep all my games as well as all my friends who play games. DRM doesn't really bother me all that much, I don't usually have any problems with even some of the more constrictive forms of DRM[footnote]I'm not saying that DRM isn't a problem but that DRM hasn't been too big of a pain in the ass for me.[/footnote]. And to be honest, Steam's DRM is really very lenient, I don't really see it as a con. It sure beats having to have the game disc in the CD drive.

Sure you may not actually own your games technically but you have all the important benefits of ownership, which is good enough for me.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

And the "Con's" are:
- Draconian DRM
- "You DON'T actually own your games"
- Online/offline gaming
- "unfair" market share

Your thoughts?

-Hawk

My thoughts are that your Cons list is quite wrong. Starting with the first point.

The DRM in Steam is almost as far from "Draconian" as one can get short of having none whatsoever. In almost every game it's completely transparent and requires no action from the player whatsoever. We can install our games on as many machines as we like, as many times as we like at any time we like. We can switch to offline mode at any time and play games without needing to be online.

DRM could be described as "draconian" when it forces an always on connection (Ubisoft, Diablo III), has a limit to the number of times it can be installed or installs a rootkit. You do yourself and whatever argument you are trying to make a disservice by saying something observably and demonstrably false.

Second point, agreed, though EU legislation [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118245-EU-Court-Legalizes-Selling-Used-Digital-Games] means that soon we will. Also, this isn't specific to Steam but to all DDPs.
Offline Gaming, this can be done with three mouse clicks.
Unfair Market Share? Unfair to whom? Last I checked impulse, GMG, GOG, XBox Live, PSN, Origin (spit) and more are all still online and functional.

Oh and for pros, you missed "incredible community features", "useful communication tools" and "easy multiplayer platform".

 

[thespyisdead]

ummm... your point about owning a game is completely invalidated, by the fact that you do not own the game regardless of how it comes around to you, you own the licence to use the product... nothing more...

 

[thenumberthirteen]

I like Steam, and I've hardly ever had any problems with it. Though one advantage (not exclusive to Steam, but Digital vs Physical in general) is I moved out of my parent's house a few months ago, and I could only manage to bring so much. I brought my favourite DVDs and such, but if I had all my games in Physical boxes I wouldn't have been able to bring them all with me.

 

[jezcentral]

I think another point in its favour is that Valve has no shareholders. There won't be anyone questioning why customers are allowed to download games as many times as they want to, without even being, like, charged for it.

Of course, this is as long as Gabe Newell is alive. Hang on in there, Gabe!

 

[DoPo]

Basically I'm just curious as to why people either LOVE/praise Steam or HATE/despise it?

Easy - because if somebody neither LOVES nor HATES it, they won't really speak up. So the middle ground doesn't have much of a representation. Hence there are more than two types of people. Also worthy of noting, let's say somebody neither LOVES nor HATES it, but speaks against one of those groups they'll be labelled as the other one, as I suspect you've done.

 

[Paladin2905]

And the "Con's" are:
- Draconian DRM
- "You DON'T actually own your games"
- Online/offline gaming
- "unfair" market share

-Hawk

Being somebody on the middle between the whole hate/love Steam thing, I actually have to agree that the DRM is draconian- especially compared to services like GOG. This is currently my biggest hangup with Steam; I really don't like the whole "update your software or stop using it" concept and avoid it at anytime possible. (There is probably a setting that changes this, but I don't know where).

 

[DoPo]

- Draconian DRM

Wait, I just saw that.

And the "Con's" are:
- Draconian DRM
- "You DON'T actually own your games"
- Online/offline gaming
- "unfair" market share

-Hawk

Being somebody on the middle between the whole hate/love Steam thing, I actually have to agree that the DRM is draconian- especially compared to services like GOG. This is currently my biggest hangup with Steam; I really don't like the whole "update your software or stop using it" concept and avoid it at anytime possible. (There is probably a setting that changes this, but I don't know where).

See above. Also, You are comparing no DRM to DRM. Everything has "Draconian" counter piracy measures compared to none at all. In fact, most of the games on GOG used to have "draconian" DRM before they went on there - how did people even play them back in the day?

Be reasonable, and don't go throwing words around at random.

 

[Rastien]

It's like Itunes for Games.

Everyone loves Itunes.

Literally it's just convience, if you have a decent connection you have some money and you're bored. Browse steam find a game download in less than an hour enjoy.

Also you can access you games anytime in steam offline mode, so not owning them doesn't make sense to me

 

[antipirate]

I have a couple of problems with steam. I don't really agree with the policy on account sharing (I should be able to share my account with anyone in my household, and I don't even mean room-mates or anything just my wife and daughter)

Second I don't like the idea of not really owning the games and losing my whole library if there is any problems with the user agreement.

However I suspect they will never enforce the account sharing policy in a way that I'll have a problem with. (imagine the headline "father gets steam account locked for sharing game with daughter")

Also as long as the prices are so good I'll take my chances with losing my whole library/not owning the games because I'll surely have gotten my money's worth out of most of the games in my library at any given time.

Regards,
Jordan

 

[DoPo]

It's like Itunes for Games.

Everyone loves Itunes.

<-- Not everyone.

Literally it's just convience, if you have a decent connection you have some money and you're bored. Browse steam find a game download in less than an hour enjoy.

Also you can access you games anytime in steam offline mode, so not owning them doesn't make sense to me

Well, the offline mode is still not fixed, so if you find yourself without internet, you won't be able to go straight to offline. It's annoying, really - especially if you're on a laptop. I wouldn't necessarily class it as a con but it's close, at any rate.

Also, technically you don't "own" the games, as in you need Steam, so there is a possibility for you to lose the access (say, your account gets banned. Somehow. Not that it's likely to happen any more). Not a big possibility, but it's there - unlike if you have a physical copy. Not that people who use that argument acknowledge that physical copies break, scratch, get lost and stuff. Steam is not much worse than GOG in terms of "you don't own your games", OK, somewhat but not much. I haven't heard GOG being bashed for it.