The Victims of Homosexuality

[GroovyV]

Thank you for posting this OP. It's nice to find a breeze of online air such as yours. And as for the whole bisexuality side note i saw mentioned, it exists. For sure. I am merely one point of proof. Whether i choose on or another sex later in life may possibly be just out of convenience or something. Right now, i just like both girls and boys. A lot.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

*snip*

Well put, but put in the wrong place. You aren't going to find many, if any, people who do that sort of thing to homosexuals here. Post this somewhere where it will do some good.

 

[lord.jeff]

I agree with what you say but starting with a statement like this:

Both sides of the fence have gotten out of hand and I think we all need to step back and take a minute to think about the victims of homosexuality.

and then go on to only assault one side doesn't really work.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

So, there's been a lot of talk in the forum about homosexuality lately, due in large part to the upcoming Mass Effect threequel. Both sides of the fence have gotten out of hand and I think we all need to step back and take a minute to think about the victims of homosexuality.

Homosexuals.

I'm sure it's pretty easy to sit on your comfy chair, behind your keyboard and protected by the shroud of internet anonymity while you tell everyone how wrong it is to be gay, or how immoral it is, how your god doesn't approve, how you think it's icky, etc., etc. But you know what? Shut up. Just shut up. People like that are the reason gay teens especially and adults kill themselves.

You have any evidence that people on the Escapist forums have caused the death of other homosexual escapist?

While you sit there and safely tell the world how in your mind it is fucked up to be attracted to consenting adults who happen to be the same gender, people are hearing it, reading it and being told it on a daily basis. Normal people. Strangers, friends, family members, co-workers--people who you know and love, and people you've never met. These people have to listen to you tell them how sick they are.

I think you are confusing people on the internet with groups like the WBC. Nobody is forced to read comments on the internet.

Yeah, freedom of speech; you have every right to voice your opinion. But you know what? I don't care. Shut up. You're wrong, you're a bigot and you harm people in ways some never recover from.

People are not wrong about it being a sin(look it up), nor are they wrong to feel disgusted/sexual repulsed by it. As for harassing people IRL, I agree that it shouldn't be done.

The only victims of homosexuality are the boy, girls, men and women who are picked on, harassed, devalued, ignored, shunned, beaten, bullied, neglected, belittled, assaulted, driven to depression; suicide and self-harm, and the people flat out murdered because close-minded asshats have a problem with what someone does behind close doors. The people who did nothing to anyone. The guy who lives next door. The woman at work. The boy at the park. The girl at school. They didn't hurt a single person and they didn't choose to be who they are. They are human beings and they want to be left alone, to fall in love with another human being and to live in peace, without people seeing their sexuality as weird and harmful to their children. They want to come to their favourite video game website and not see a bunch of bigots talking about how sick they are--they get enough of it in their every-fucking-day life.

I was agreeing with you until the last part. If you want to support homosexuals, then more power to you! However, don't start calling names at anybody who expresses a dislike(or non-attraction) about the image of two men kissing.

So next time you wanna tell us all how 'wrong' and 'sick' it is to be gay, or you feel like expressing your horror at a child seeing a gay couple holding hands, take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself this: who's creating the victims here?

I don't think I've ever claimed to be a victim of homosexuality, however I have expressed how I'm not attracted to the image of two men kissing/being intimate/having sex, and I see no reason why I should not be aloud to express my preferences(assuming it doesn't violate any forum rules).

 

[dyre]

So, there's been a lot of talk in the forum about homosexuality lately, due in large part to the upcoming Mass Effect threequel. Both sides of the fence have gotten out of hand and I think we all need to step back and take a minute to think about the victims of homosexuality.

Homosexuals.

I'm sure it's pretty easy to sit on your comfy chair, behind your keyboard and protected by the shroud of internet anonymity while you tell everyone how wrong it is to be gay, or how immoral it is, how your god doesn't approve, how you think it's icky, etc., etc. But you know what? Shut up. Just shut up. People like that are the reason gay teens especially and adults kill themselves. While you sit there and safely tell the world how in your mind it is fucked up to be attracted to consenting adults who happen to be the same gender, people are hearing it, reading it and being told it on a daily basis. Normal people. Strangers, friends, family members, co-workers--people who you know and love, and people you've never met. These people have to listen to you tell them how sick they are. Yeah, freedom of speech; you have every right to voice your opinion. But you know what? I don't care. Shut up. You're wrong, you're a bigot and you harm people in ways some never recover from.

The only victims of homosexuality are the boy, girls, men and women who are picked on, harassed, devalued, ignored, shunned, beaten, bullied, neglected, belittled, assaulted, driven to depression; suicide and self-harm, and the people flat out murdered because close-minded asshats have a problem with what someone does behind close doors. The people who did nothing to anyone. The guy who lives next door. The woman at work. The boy at the park. The girl at school. They didn't hurt a single person and they didn't choose to be who they are. They are human beings and they want to be left alone, to fall in love with another human being and to live in peace, without people seeing their sexuality as weird and harmful to their children. They want to come to their favourite video game website and not see a bunch of bigots talking about how sick they are--they get enough of it in their every-fucking-day life.

So next time you wanna tell us all how 'wrong' and 'sick' it is to be gay, or you feel like expressing your horror at a child seeing a gay couple holding hands, take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself this: who's creating the victims here?

Uh, so, who is this directed at? Pretty much everyone here is ok with people being gay.

Also, your argument is absolutely garbage, one of the lousiest pro-tolerance arguments I've ever seen (and let's face it, it's pretty damn easy to make an argument for tolerance, it being the obvious right thing and all that).

People who oppose homosexuals shouldn't do so because homosexuals might be offended? What the fuck kind of argument is that? People shouldn't express their opinion online because someone else might read about it and might get offended? Wow.

It's one thing to say it directly to someone's face; it's quite another to express an opinion on a public forum. And your paragraph about "those poor gays didn't do anything to anyone" is ridiculous, all emotional appeal and no substance. Most people haven't done anything to anyone. Most people should still expect to be offended by some things on the internet.

Finally, I'm not sure what this "victim" rhetoric is supposed to mean. The whole "who's creating the victim here?" question seems to be countering an argument that doesn't exist. Did someone claim that homosexuals are creating the victims? Because if so, you probably should have brought that up. You have to set up a straw man before knocking it down, you know.

edit: bah, lame. the guy on top of me ninja'd me

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

-

Yeah, the internet has this great way of completely failing to convey when you aren't entirely serious about something, and an even better way of making you type something poorly in the moment. I try not to edit because I think it removes a lot of the honesty of these conversations; what's done is done. But no, I didn't actually mean it. I have a strong aversion to people in that group for previously mentioned reasons and thus most of what comes out of me in conversation about them is a mixture of fear and disgust--none of which innocent people have earned. Like being bitten by a dog and never trusting a dog again; it's not every dogs' fault, but can you entirely blame me for it?

Anyway, yeah, again: my bad. Even though I didn't mean it, I should have taken a moment and said it entirely differently.

-

The first time I saw those videos I had the biggest smile on my face, lol. He is one epicly awesome nerd.

-

*Discreet hug*

Move along.

Nothing to see here.

>_>

<_<

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

edit: bah, lame. the guy on top of me ninja'd me

You gotta be quicker than that!

 

[dyre]

edit: bah, lame. the guy on top of me ninja'd me

You gotta be quicker than that!

Err, I guess so?

But really, your original post reads more like an emotional lashing-out than a rational argument. :/

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

edit: bah, lame. the guy on top of me ninja'd me

You gotta be quicker than that!

Err, I guess so?

But really, your original post reads more like an emotional lashing-out than a rational argument. :/

It's not an argument. With everything the modern, evolved world has shown us and with everything we now understand about our existence, some truths should be self evident. People much brighter and better at it than me have tried to heard the remaining idiots into the evolutionary pen, but they don't wanna go--not yet, anyway. So, sometimes you just gotta sit back and do the illogical thing: yell at them. It won't make them suddenly form up and march one-by-one and it certainly won't inspire a revolution, but it does wonders for the morale.

 

[dyre]

edit: bah, lame. the guy on top of me ninja'd me

You gotta be quicker than that!

Err, I guess so?

But really, your original post reads more like an emotional lashing-out than a rational argument. :/

It's not an argument. With everything the modern, evolved world has shown us and with everything we now understand about our existence, some truths should be self evident. People much brighter and better at it than me have tried to heard the remaining idiots into the evolutionary pen, but they don't wanna go--not yet, anyway. So, sometimes you just gotta sit back and do the illogical thing: yell at them. It won't make them suddenly form up and march one-by-one and it certainly won't inspire a revolution, but it does wonders for the morale.

Eh, I think loud rhetoric usually only works with people who are already on your side (for example, a speech on how America is the "shining city on the hill" probably won't work on someone from China or England), and if you yell at anti-homosexual people, that just gives them an excuse to yell back.

Besides, you won't find much of your target audience here anyway. Tbh, this whole thing reeks a bit of self-gratification.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

edit: bah, lame. the guy on top of me ninja'd me

You gotta be quicker than that!

Err, I guess so?

But really, your original post reads more like an emotional lashing-out than a rational argument. :/

It's not an argument. With everything the modern, evolved world has shown us and with everything we now understand about our existence, some truths should be self evident. People much brighter and better at it than me have tried to heard the remaining idiots into the evolutionary pen, but they don't wanna go--not yet, anyway. So, sometimes you just gotta sit back and do the illogical thing: yell at them. It won't make them suddenly form up and march one-by-one and it certainly won't inspire a revolution, but it does wonders for the morale.

Eh, I think loud rhetoric usually only works with people who are already on your side (for example, a speech on how America is the "shining city on the hill" probably won't work on someone from China or England), and if you yell at anti-homosexual people, that just gives them an excuse to yell back.

Besides, you won't find much of your target audience here anyway. Tbh, this whole thing reeks a bit of self-gratification.

It was pretty gratifying. But hey, I don't mind hooting and hollering if it makes a few of the already converted people smile.

But if you take a squiz at the comments in some of Jim's videos (though I dislike the man greatly) there are some surprisingly horrid opinions present here and there. His latest video namely got the worms out from the meat.

 

[dyre]

edit: bah, lame. the guy on top of me ninja'd me

You gotta be quicker than that!

Err, I guess so?

But really, your original post reads more like an emotional lashing-out than a rational argument. :/

It's not an argument. With everything the modern, evolved world has shown us and with everything we now understand about our existence, some truths should be self evident. People much brighter and better at it than me have tried to heard the remaining idiots into the evolutionary pen, but they don't wanna go--not yet, anyway. So, sometimes you just gotta sit back and do the illogical thing: yell at them. It won't make them suddenly form up and march one-by-one and it certainly won't inspire a revolution, but it does wonders for the morale.

Eh, I think loud rhetoric usually only works with people who are already on your side (for example, a speech on how America is the "shining city on the hill" probably won't work on someone from China or England), and if you yell at anti-homosexual people, that just gives them an excuse to yell back.

Besides, you won't find much of your target audience here anyway. Tbh, this whole thing reeks a bit of self-gratification.

It was pretty gratifying. But hey, I don't mind hooting and hollering if it makes a few of the already converted people smile.

But if you take a squiz at the comments in some of Jim's videos (though I dislike the man greatly) there are some surprisingly horrid opinions present here and there. His latest video namely got the worms out from the meat.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Jim's videos...I'll just take your word for it >_>

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

edit: bah, lame. the guy on top of me ninja'd me

You gotta be quicker than that!

Err, I guess so?

But really, your original post reads more like an emotional lashing-out than a rational argument. :/

It's not an argument. With everything the modern, evolved world has shown us and with everything we now understand about our existence, some truths should be self evident. People much brighter and better at it than me have tried to heard the remaining idiots into the evolutionary pen, but they don't wanna go--not yet, anyway. So, sometimes you just gotta sit back and do the illogical thing: yell at them. It won't make them suddenly form up and march one-by-one and it certainly won't inspire a revolution, but it does wonders for the morale.

Eh, I think loud rhetoric usually only works with people who are already on your side (for example, a speech on how America is the "shining city on the hill" probably won't work on someone from China or England), and if you yell at anti-homosexual people, that just gives them an excuse to yell back.

Besides, you won't find much of your target audience here anyway. Tbh, this whole thing reeks a bit of self-gratification.

It was pretty gratifying. But hey, I don't mind hooting and hollering if it makes a few of the already converted people smile.

But if you take a squiz at the comments in some of Jim's videos (though I dislike the man greatly) there are some surprisingly horrid opinions present here and there. His latest video namely got the worms out from the meat.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Jim's videos...I'll just take your word for it >_>

To be fair, he's toned down his egomaniacal somewhat. Definitely much more tolerable than his early videos.

Anywho, nice talking to you. Hope your day is/was great.

 

[dyre]

edit: bah, lame. the guy on top of me ninja'd me

You gotta be quicker than that!

Err, I guess so?

But really, your original post reads more like an emotional lashing-out than a rational argument. :/

It's not an argument. With everything the modern, evolved world has shown us and with everything we now understand about our existence, some truths should be self evident. People much brighter and better at it than me have tried to heard the remaining idiots into the evolutionary pen, but they don't wanna go--not yet, anyway. So, sometimes you just gotta sit back and do the illogical thing: yell at them. It won't make them suddenly form up and march one-by-one and it certainly won't inspire a revolution, but it does wonders for the morale.

Eh, I think loud rhetoric usually only works with people who are already on your side (for example, a speech on how America is the "shining city on the hill" probably won't work on someone from China or England), and if you yell at anti-homosexual people, that just gives them an excuse to yell back.

Besides, you won't find much of your target audience here anyway. Tbh, this whole thing reeks a bit of self-gratification.

It was pretty gratifying. But hey, I don't mind hooting and hollering if it makes a few of the already converted people smile.

But if you take a squiz at the comments in some of Jim's videos (though I dislike the man greatly) there are some surprisingly horrid opinions present here and there. His latest video namely got the worms out from the meat.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Jim's videos...I'll just take your word for it >_>

To be fair, he's toned down his egomaniacal somewhat. Definitely much more tolerable than his early videos.

Anywho, nice talking to you. Hope your day is/was great.

Nice talking to you too. This conversation went better than I expected :O

 

[rednose1]

Well, I may not get much love for this, but hey, gotta love anonymity. I find being gay to be morally wrong. My views are based off my religious beliefs, and one of those is that it is wrong to be gay.

Now, if you've managed to not call me a hate filled bigot, I thank you, because, I'm not. People have given this so much attention because of all the depression and suicides, particulary among teenagers, resulting in anti gay bullying. I think we are focusing on the wrong aspect of the problem here. It's not the anti gay part, but the bullying in general. There used to be room for discourse and debate, but now it seems everyone believes, "you are either with us, or against us." I'm not against gay people, I just believe it isn't morally right. When my friends/family make a mistake, I don't belittle/disown them, I understand it is a mistake. If they don't think what they did is a mistake, well, then we have a difference of opinions, not the start of protests and name-calling.

I don't have any easy anwser for homosexuality, but I don't think "just shut up and accept it." is a viable one either. As long as we have hate-filled rants (on both sides) nothing productive can get done, meanwhile kids are killing themselves over the torment they recieve. While the debate continues on, can we at least work to try and take care of bullying in general, not just for gay teens? Regular teenagers are being bullied as well, and responding with suicide (or shooting their tormentors). Granted, it's not the same amount as those singled out for being gay,but it's still lives lost.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Well, I may not get much love for this, but hey, gotta love anonymity. I find being gay to be morally wrong. My views are based off my religious beliefs, and one of those is that it is wrong to be gay.

Now, if you've managed to not call me a hate filled bigot, I thank you, because, I'm not. People have given this so much attention because of all the depression and suicides, particulary among teenagers, resulting in anti gay bullying. I think we are focusing on the wrong aspect of the problem here. It's not the anti gay part, but the bullying in general. There used to be room for discourse and debate, but now it seems everyone believes, "you are either with us, or against us." I'm not against gay people, I just believe it isn't morally right. When my friends/family make a mistake, I don't belittle/disown them, I understand it is a mistake. If they don't think what they did is a mistake, well, then we have a difference of opinions, not the start of protests and name-calling.

I don't have any easy anwser for homosexuality, but I don't think "just shut up and accept it." is a viable one either. As long as we have hate-filled rants (on both sides) nothing productive can get done, meanwhile kids are killing themselves over the torment they recieve. While the debate continues on, can we at least work to try and take care of bullying in general, not just for gay teens? Regular teenagers are being bullied as well, and responding with suicide (or shooting their tormentors). Granted, it's not the same amount as those singled out for being gay,but it's still lives lost.

I think one of the problems is that your side (the religious side) can't offer up any reason why being gay is actually bad, other than 'my god said so'. Not sure how one can debate against that, lol.

Not that homosexual hatred exists solely in religion, mind.

 

[Kriptonite]

I'd expected something rather different from the title and was expecting to strongly disagree with the OP.

My mind=read.

I, and anyone else who possesses some level of intelligence, wholeheartedly agree. There's really nothing here to discuss because it's not arguable. Anyway, I agree, I hope as many people as possible see your post good sir.

 

[FishBrains]

I'm a girl who loves other girls. I felt the need to comment on zelda2fanboy's statement's here.

First, I think you have every right to define your own sexuality as you see fit. If you say you were asexual until a particular event, who am I to say otherwise? But I'm not sure you can label other's sexuality based on outwards behaviour either- some people have childish, romantic crushes on people of the same gender before they grow into being 'sexual beings'. Others, like myself, are not straight but do not self- identify as 'lesbian' or any other specific label. I see sexuality as fluid and personal, and don't understand why anyone else should care if you aren't hurting anybody.

Second, I have to agree with DressedInRags about gay advocacy. We still need the help. I have led a blessed life and have experienced little discrimination myself, but I've seen it's aftereffects in the LGBT community- even in a part of the world very open to this kind of thing.
Great steps have been made to make life better for LGBTs, but attitudes still make life difficult. I know a couple, one female, one M to F transitioning, who worry about the MTF's ability to get work as someone who is (currently) clearly trans. The F's family is very religious, and do not know everything about their relationship- she talks about it casually, but every time it comes up they both look like they are going to cry.

I'm not saying that this is the only issue society needs to deal with, or that our lives are the hardest. But attitudes like this need to change, and straight people in the community need to take action as well if that is to happen. Anyway, it's not as if liking girls took away any of the problems I had when I thought I was straight (actually, I think I more boys are interested in me than girls, sigh).

And I'm just as likely to be raped as a heterosexual woman. Less vulnerability to daterape, I guess, but it's not unheard of for men to 'teach a woman how good dick is'.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Others, like myself, are not straight but do not self- identify as 'lesbian' or any other specific label. I see sexuality as fluid and personal.

Tempting to agree, but I can't really.

Sexuality, by definition, is rigid. It's a catch twenty-two, you know? We feel a certain way, so we label it. But then the label becomes the emotion and the actual emotion can be forgotten.

Sorry to get all metaphysical here, but I guess it comes down to: is sexuality a thing one can own and contain? A mechanism that can be predicted? Or is it a label with no real substance?

I think I confused myself >_>