This is why I hate "Fake Geek/Gamer Girls"

[Schadrach]

It's not as common amongst males.

OR, people aren't trying to trip up guys and giving them pop quizzes as much because they assume their interest is genuine automatically.

I'd be willing to accept that it's not as common amongst males. Being a "fake geek" have a better risk/reward ratio in terms of social capital for girls than it does guys.

you playing games ruins it for the guys/this is our space and you shouldn't be here

Let's talk about gendered spaces for a second. I'm going to define some terms: Women's space is space in which men are explicitly excluded. Men's space is space from which women are explicitly excluded. Male-dominant space is space that has dominant male influences, but from which women are not excluded. Female-dominant space is space that has dominant female influences, but from which men are not excluded.

Women's space is a thing, a fairly common one at that and is respected as just shy of sacrosanct. Men's space barely exists anymore, and is generally treated as something inherently offensive and sexist because women are excluded from it.

Try to name some things that are men's spaces, it's a lot harder than naming women's spaces, isn't it?

Men in a female-dominant space are expected to conform to the space, that is they are expected to follow along with the rules and expectations of the space, and that it is right to shame, mistreat, or exclude them if they upset the space as it stands. If the space as it is, makes them uncomfortable, they are expected to leave it. Women in a male-dominant space are usually more or less welcome so long as they act like men in a female-dominant space are expected to ask, meaning that they conform to the space. What tends to happen though is that women in a male-dominant space tend to try to force the space to conform to them, to change the rules and expectations of the space to make them more comfortable, and generally see no issue with shaming men who take issue with that ("not wanting to let girls in their treehouse" sound familiar?).

I just give people the benefit of the doubt and if they start to sound like they have no idea what they're talking about then I may quiz them (male or female). Or, you, know, stop talking to them completely.

That may be what you do but as I'm trying to explain, your experience is not universal.
I haven't seen any dudes be pop-quizzed, and none of my geeky guy friends have been, but for some reason all my female geek friends have.
Still, checking people is fucked up, we should be inviting people into our little club, not trying to exclude people, even if they are pretending they know a little more than they actually do.

Geek checking happens all around. Hell, I resemble a stereotype of a geek in his 30s, and still get geek checked from time to time. One thing I've always wondered that comes up in these discussions -- women claiming to be geek checked because they are women. One of the women that comes into these threads fairly often even admitted that geek checking has been around for a long time, but that it's only fairly recently she's started being geek checked because she's a woman. That leads me to ask the obvious question: how do you differentiate the general geek checking that happens from special geek checking directed at you solely because you are female?

I regard the label 'gamer' and 'geek' on the same level as 'goth', 'jock', and other such labels. You can't just become one. You can't just decide, in the example of goths, to wear black, put on black make-up, and start listening to goth/metal/whatever music and be a goth. It's a culture you grow in to. People that suddenly just decide to 'become' a goth/geek/gamer/whatever are posers/fakes.

Luckily it's generally not that hard to find out who the 'real' (inset culture label here) is and who's a fake. But it still kinda sucks that the fakes are starting to take over in certain area's of each culture.

---------------------

Reminds me of my neighbor when I was still living with my parents. In about the time span of a week she turned from a regular, average school girl into a 'goth'. As in she started wearing black, dyed her hair black, put on spiked bracelets and such, and...heck I doubt she even really listened to goth/metal bands. And she stuck out...so badly. The way she acted, how she was wearing said clothes, everything just screamed 'I'm just trying to copy others'. Was a bit sad really.

I've known more than a few of them. Oddly enough, I used to get the opposite response when I was in high school -- people reading me as Goth without any of the external trappings, precisely because I could talk the talk and listened to the music.

How exactly does one inhabit a sub-culture, if not by adapting the style/behaviors of that sub-culture? Is there some kind of test you need to take to be a certified goth?

No, but it's not hard for members of a given subculture to recognize that certain individuals are deviant from the norms and mores of the group. Essentially, wearing the outfit doesn't make you part of the group -- real life isn't Hitman.

Hell, I'm not even sure how "gamer" qualifies as a culture, since it tends to be focused entirely on a form of media appreciation. It's like calling someone a fake reader, or a fake television watcher.

I could "lit check" someone and deem them a "fake" reader (or at least not a member of a particular "well-read" subculture), depending on their particular favored flavor of lit.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

No, but it's not hard for members of a given subculture to recognize that certain individuals are deviant from the norms and mores of the group. Essentially, wearing the outfit doesn't make you part of the group -- real life isn't Hitman.

"Geek" is a pretty broad culture. We could get 100 different people in here with 100 different definitions of what it means to be a geek, and they'd all be right. I'm not sure what the "norms" of that group would be. I'm also not sure why certain sub-sub cultures are obsessed with identifying interlopers. Wasn't the whole point of sub cultures for people of disparate backgrounds to find belonging? As opposed to forming little xenophobic tribal encampments?

I could "lit check" someone and deem them a "fake" reader (or at least not a member of a particular "well-read" subculture), depending on their particular favored flavor of lit.

I suppose someone could. It would probably make them come off like a rocketing douche canoe though, and rightfully so.

 

[Phasmal]

Let's talk about gendered spaces for a second. I'm going to define some terms: Women's space is space in which men are explicitly excluded. Men's space is space from which women are explicitly excluded. Male-dominant space is space that has dominant male influences, but from which women are not excluded. Female-dominant space is space that has dominant female influences, but from which men are not excluded.

Women's space is a thing, a fairly common one at that and is respected as just shy of sacrosanct. Men's space barely exists anymore, and is generally treated as something inherently offensive and sexist because women are excluded from it.

Try to name some things that are men's spaces, it's a lot harder than naming women's spaces, isn't it?

Men in a female-dominant space are expected to conform to the space, that is they are expected to follow along with the rules and expectations of the space, and that it is right to shame, mistreat, or exclude them if they upset the space as it stands. If the space as it is, makes them uncomfortable, they are expected to leave it. Women in a male-dominant space are usually more or less welcome so long as they act like men in a female-dominant space are expected to ask, meaning that they conform to the space. What tends to happen though is that women in a male-dominant space tend to try to force the space to conform to them, to change the rules and expectations of the space to make them more comfortable, and generally see no issue with shaming men who take issue with that ("not wanting to let girls in their treehouse" sound familiar?).

Sorry but that's really not relevant to the topic at hand.
Gaming is not your male space, it never was, and it never will be.
I have no issue with gendered space, but this is not one.
As far as I'm concerned, you can have male clubs inside gaming if you want to, but gaming as a whole isn't a male space.

EDIT: Basically, unless you need specific junk to operate something, I think it shouldn't matter who is `dominant` in spaces. I think men should be allowed to be heard in female `dominated` spaces and I think women should be allowed to be heard in male `dominated` spaces and I would push equally against someone who was needlessly trying to exclude someone.

 

[Bertylicious]

snip

Maybe it has to do with people who fetishise gaming and nerd culture (which is basically just consumerism when you get down to it) as some sort of counter-culture and see girls in the treehouse as a legitimising it all. Which would then make it just a form of consumerism like shopping for the latest trainers or the latest pop album.

I think you may be on to something.
There are many people who seem to think that all nerdy women are somehow new to the hobby (like a guy in a game shop who decided to explain DA:O to me).
Also there are those who are very invested in being the people who were excluded, even though now they've turned into the ones trying to exclude others.
I've heard a lot along the lines of `You wouldn't like me 10 years ago because of my hobby so you can't join it!`.

Ah well, DA:O Explanation Guy (or DAOEG as he will now be known, forever) may have just been desperately flailing for some sort of subject matter to talk to you who, as a woman, are utterly terrifying. Possessing as you do the power of rejection which, as we all know, is as mortally devastating to the psychology of a young man as a gun shot wound to the brain stem, as any honest young fellow will tell you.

Ironically this is a relatively new phenomenon, at least in geological terms, which I reckon goes hand in hand with the evolution of the teenager as a social entity and women's social liberation which, if true, would be hilarious.

The implication would be that there are people who view gaming as a refuge from the modern male contradiction of respecting women's rights whilst being knee deep in punani, a farcical state of affairs born of the social movement towards equality painful growing pains. It would also tie in nicely with your treehouse comment and lend our exchange some delightful symmetry.

But I digress. The truth (as I see it) is that nowhere is safe and as gaming, as technology, becomes ubiquitous across society which is a good thing in the long term but still kind of scary.

 

[SquidVicious]

It really is liberating when you finally grow out of caring about what sub-culture you try to shoehorn yourself into and just live life as a person. I really don't mean to sound condescending and I apologize if you interpret it that way, but this high school shit really needs to end when high school ends. Your hobbies do not define you as a person and if you allow yourself to fit into that mold, then you don't really have a right to be upset if people make assumptions based on it.

 

[Hollyday]

Yeah... This again? Are you really that afraid of girls in your club or why do you specify the gender? Do you want to imply that there is no fake behaviour from the other gender or do you just imply that you hold the female gender to such irrational standards that no one could qualify as geek or nerd in your book when they have a pair of tits. If including this, do you also hold overweight males to such standards because they also have a pair of tits?

Well. Eplain this to me with your own words and not with some stupid yt link I won't even bother to look at: Why the need to specify the gender?

Also, no, I don't feel particulary enraged by fake geeks / nerds. Because they have *shock* zero impact on my life.

And finally: You imply that being a nerd or geek had some kind of entry barrier. Well, it had only one in particular. Have a non-mainstream hobby which consumes a big chunk of your time. Tadaa, you are a geek / nerd.

I know you've already been complimented on this post but I'd like to join in. Thank you for expressing exactly how I feel about this (bored, angry and frustrated). When will this end? WHEN?!

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I don't like the idea of any person being fake. That includes fake gamer guys and/or girls, fake pychic people, fake magicians, fake people. Nothing makes me more annoyed (besides stupid people) than people trying to be somebody they are not.

Take that from what you will.

yeah agree with this, at it's core, i fucking hate posers. I don't hate someone if they do/don't have an interest in something, that's perfectly fine, we're all different, HOWEVER, when you try to use such things to define yourself or look good in someone elses eyes by lying or trying to act more knowledgeable on the subject than you are, then you are just a silly fool in the end.

i personally have no gender vendetta, fake "geek/gamers" has no preference on gender, however me being a heterosexual male, i do tend to take notice when a girl acts as a poser to grab my attention, that's when it annoys me. Douchebag guys pose all the time, but as I said being a heterosexual male, i have no fucks to give for them, as i'm not interested in what they are dishing.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

You need to stop caring about this, all people need to. It does no harm and is pointless to kick up a fuss, just keep enjoying your hobby.

It really is liberating when you finally grow out of caring about what sub-culture you try to shoehorn yourself into and just live life as a person. I really don't mean to sound condescending and I apologize if you interpret it that way, but this high school shit really needs to end when high school ends. Your hobbies do not define you as a person and if you allow yourself to fit into that mold, then you don't really have a right to be upset if people make assumptions based on it.

Ninja'd, more or less. But agreed.

 

[Ashhearth]

Wow, this is lovely.
I heart this comment.

Stupid bullshit about fake girls is stupid bullshit and I really don't care for the frustrated tears of gamer hipsters who don't want ladies in their treehouse.

Gaming is not `your` thing. It's just a thing. And everyone can enjoy it.

Oh yeah, and, I'm a gamer girl.
Come at me bro.

This made my day lol thank you very much.

Another side point of me just thinking out loud. Half the people in my Game Design major at college are girls. Does this mean they are spending +40k a year on trying to get guys attention instead of actually caring about the work?

 

[Casual Shinji]

I just hate being patronized for what I like. Doesn't matter what form it may take, whether it's male, female, or non-organic.

That's why whenever I see a mainstream program cover something game (or worse, anime) related I switch the channel like mad man.

 

[II2]

The YT link had some good points on the commodification of subculture and stereotypes, but it doesn't really touch on the malleable nature of language and it's (re)appropriation. He comments on Big Bang Theory as "Nerd Blackface", harsh, but the show IS miserable rubbish. Following that line of thought though, black guys reclaimed 'nigga' and to some extent, queers reclaimed fag and dyke, so why not the same for nerds and geeks and gamers?

I mean, I had an awkward childhood like he spoke of and was strange for owning a NES in 85 and preferring it and my PC to the company of other kids, but... Is this really an important debate? Is this really the hill to die on?

I'll call myself a geek, casually, as a shorthand for longer explanation, but that's just utility and economy of language. If I see someone declaring it to the skies to be seen as something, that speaks to their experience and need, not mine. Selling culture is never tasteful and some people need to pose, but, fucks sake, just find someone else who's interesting to talk to and get on with your day.

---

Also, regardless of your reasons, if you're a straight guy complaining there's too many girls around, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Brutal Peanut]

Eh, doesn't matter to me anymore. Those who generally spend a majority of their money on 'cultural fads' or the new thing in fashion, will soon move on to something else. They always do. Maybe they'll take to wearing trash bag turtlenecks, or maybe dog/cat hair sweaters will be the new rage. All I know is that I like playing games, it's a fun escape even if I'm not 'pro, hardcore', and that's pretty much that. I like what I like, what I like, what I like. It's hard for me to care that much about people who spend their money on stuff they don't even really care about to be 'cool'. Feel a bit sad for them, to be honest.

 

[144_v1legacy]

Okay ... i'll bite.

When did it have "meaning"?

I'm genuinely curious.

Now, gaming started long before this "gaming geek" became a thing.

Some of us on this site were gaming when it first started, literally, we played the very first home video games on the very first consoles.

Now not all of us were stereotypical "geeks". Some of us had active social lives with no personality disorders that seems to be the "in thing" with self proclaimed "geeks" at the moment.

What happened was, these self proclaimed "geeks" came and took OUR thing and made it theirs.

The fact that most of the people saying gaming is "their" thing and non-geeks be damned weren't even sperm when it was getting started.

Not all gamers, since the dawn of gaming, were "geeks". Other "types" of people that are invading this so called "geek culture" were playing games long before this debate became a hot topic.

I know this is feeding it but there are people out there that really do believe that gaming is "theirs" and should be theirs alone when, if it hadn't been for us getting it rolling, there would not be much if any gaming at all.

This is right.

Yeah... This again? Are you really that afraid of girls in your club or why do you specify the gender? Do you want to imply that there is no fake behaviour from the other gender or do you just imply that you hold the female gender to such irrational standards that no one could qualify as geek or nerd in your book when they have a pair of tits. If including this, do you also hold overweight males to such standards because they also have a pair of tits?

Well. Eplain this to me with your own words and not with some stupid yt link I won't even bother to look at: Why the need to specify the gender?

Also, no, I don't feel particulary enraged by fake geeks / nerds. Because they have *shock* zero impact on my life.

And finally: You imply that being a nerd or geek had some kind of entry barrier. Well, it had only one in particular. Have a non-mainstream hobby which consumes a big chunk of your time. Tadaa, you are a geek / nerd.

This is right.

So a few people pretend to be something that's 'cool' now. So what? it's about as offensive as an old person trying to be young. Unless your problem is you were bullied for being a geek, and now your bullies are pretending to be geeks, you have no cause to be offended. get over it.

If you really can;t get over this, then i suggest you blame the right thing. The Big Bang Theory.

This is right.

Hi, I've been playing video games since the Atari. We never had a "culture" (at least not one that was specific to gaming and not linked to nerd culture in general) until the late 90s at the earliest. We don't have a long and storied history to be defiled. But even then, if you're unhappy about that "culture" being "sold en masse", then supposedly fake gamer girls (who haven't been proven to exist in statistically significant numbers) aren't the people you need to be mad at. You need to be mad at Doritos and Mountain Dew. You need to be mad at every company that makes "gamer" versions of their products. You need to be mad at companies like Alienware, and anyone else who makes high end PCs with superfluous LEDs for decorative purposes, or anyone who produces PC mods that accomplish anything beyond making the PC faster. You need to be mad at X-Box and Playstation and Nintendo. You need to be mad at everyone who has published or promoted a spunk-gargle-wee-wee game. You need to be mad at everyone who ever sold a toy, model, or knick-knack inspired by a game. All of those people are "selling" gamer "culture".

To accuse someone of being a fake nerd is to say they aren't nerd enough. To say that does not make the person who said it a true nerd or a true gamer- it makes them a hipster. Instead of being a pretentious hipster proclaiming their love of x band before it was "cool", the gaming hipster proclaims their love of gaming before it was "cool", and sneers down their nose at anyone who isn't with "it" as much as they are. Hipsters suck. Don't be a hipster. Hipsters who are misogynists suck worse. Don't be a misogynistic hipster.

This is right.

I'm starting to think that the real nerd subculture is dead anyway. Or rather, not dead so much as buried very deeply on the internet, and less deeply in real life. Time was, you popped onto a dedicated server in an online game, and it had the same kind of friendly, helpful atmosphere as a tabletop game store. That time is long, long gone. Modern gamer culture is nothing like the nerd culture of old at all -- when was the last time you saw someone giving a reference to, say, Dune that went beyond "hey Dune, I heard that was supposed to be a classic, don't I look smart for referencing it?" Or the Foundation trilogy, or the Lensman series, or any number of other classic sci fi stories. When was the last time you traded stories of that one crazy munchkin everyone has in their D&D group? When was the last time you saw someone gushing about Blade Runner, or even acknowledging that Forbidden Planet existed? Where is the wonder at the possibilities of the future, or at the magic of a mythological past? What happened to nerds? And why did the whole culture go from a collection of people who would give each other the shirts off their own backs if necesary -- if for no other reason than that they'd all known what it feels to be mistreated in the past -- to a collection of asshats shouting obscenities at one another?

The real nerd culture still lives, but not on any dedicated gaming site I'm aware of. You'll see glimpses of it on the XKCD forums, and on other places frequented by engineers and nerds of an older generation (forums dedicated to home theater often give glimpses of the old days, for example, and the good ones are frequented by both groups), but not on gaming sites. But really, if you want to see the true nerd culture, you're going to have to go out in the real world and find it. Your first stop should be your friendly neighborhood game shop, and I don't mean the kind that sells videogames. I you don't have one of those, check the comic shop. Look around, there will be one or the other /somewhere/ in the vicinity.

This is right.

The thread seems to be responding properly to this OP. I'll add my own two cents as well.

The popularization of a lifestyle doesn't make it less genuine. There are pros and cons to popularization, sure, but in this case, the gamer case, the good massively outweighs the bad. For instance, if "average people" become less distinguishable from "gamers," than games will no longer be the 1st default target when looking for a source on which to blame tragedy. Two years ago, for instance, this recent school shooting would certainly have resulted in the attempted connecting to "game influence" by the media, but now not so much. There's nothing good in keeping the "gamer culture" exclusionary, because even if pretenders do exist, it's good for us that they want to.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

I don't like the idea of any person being fake. That includes fake gamer guys and/or girls, fake pychic people, fake magicians, fake people. Nothing makes me more annoyed (besides stupid people) than people trying to be somebody they are not.

This is the issue.

Media fuckheads selling themselves as "educated" in our field (i.e. games) only to be exposed as shallow frauds.

Would it kill someone to admit they are illiterate in anything?

 

[Evil Smurf]

I think it is cute that people who play COD and social games are disregarded by the gamer community, because they cannot possibly be games they play can it?

 

[Entitled]

If you are vehemently debating about what "nerd" means, even at the cost of appearing like an obsessive manchild, because that shit is literally more important to you than getting on with your life, then congratulations, you are a nerd.

If you explicitly don't want to be called a nerd, you are not a nerd.

If you are just using the phrase just because it happens to be hip at the moment, but you would disavow yourself of any relatioship with nerd culture as soon as it would start becoming a baggage, then you are a poser/fake nerd.

This guideline applies to pretty much every subculture, culture, fandom, religion, identity, etc, with relevant modifications.

Have a nice day, and pleasant arguing.

Nerds.

 

[Overusedname]

I don't know about fake gamer girls, but I have been accused of being a fake gamer guy. Not sure if its cos i'm gay and gays aren't allowed to be gamers; or if it is because I am half way attractive (don't mean to sound arrogant but im decent looking lol) and geeks are all supposed to be ugly shut in's.

It's frustrating.

I'm a performer and host for local events, sing, act and what not, and am rather social, and people seem astonished when I say I'm a game designer.

'Fake geek' is a nothing term and a nothing problem. It was never an interesting conversation either, just so much noise, whining and baseless privilege, with frequent sprinklings of chauvinism and double standards. But in general, it reeks of a bizarre self-imposed isolation, and enforcing 'quizzes' on anyone that isn't pale and antisocial, then turning around and claiming they're being welcoming.

"You enjoy what I enjoy, BUT NOT THE RIGHT WAY" is not a mentality that's making us seem like grown ups, folks.

 

[Daverson]

Frankly, as someone who plays tabletop games, I'm insulted that you kids think dicking around with video games make you a "real gamer".

(It's satire! Don't murder me! D= )