This whole Rape Controversy has gotten silly,

[Clearing the Eye]

Not everyone that is raped is scarred by the event, no. Rape is not something that has a universal affect--no more than being robbed, for example. One could be forgiven for thinking otherwise, with most people only ever being exposed to stories of violent rape or child abuse.

 

[Liberaliter]

There was a couple of forum threads and that makes it a 'controversy'? It was a non issue.

 

[maninahat]

The whole discussion about rape and gaming has got out of hand. I look at my Escapist news feed and there are three whole peices in a single day about rape. Offical peices. Rape rape rape rape rape everywhere i look its another rape discussion. Its getting a little creepy.

Its why I have spent the majority of my week on Rock Paper Shotgun

Yes, rape is trending in gaming news. The reason why? Games have only recently (within the in less than a decade) become advanced enough to regularly include the subject in mainstream titles. Murder in games is almost as old as gaming itself, and it is sanitised, instantanious, and often depicted without a lot of suffering. Rape, however, requires a prolongued portrayal of agony and fear - and that in turn requires the story to take a mature, receptive approach to the issue. But games haven't been doing that. Hence the discussions.

 

[WhyWasThat]

Honestly I don't think think that a game like Tomb Raider is worth all of this effort. There may be an underlying issue to address, where Tomb Raider represents a symptom as opposed to a cause, but all Eidos give two flying figairies about is making LOTS OV CA$H!
If a man raping another man while fingerbanging crying youngsters was suddenly considered acceptable and the quickest way to a buck, you can bet that it would not only be in their game, but plastered all over the damn cover.

They're just not worth the effort.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

In personal interaction with rape victims and rapists I mostly came to two conclusions:

1. I must stay away from rapists or risk having to find out if there's a lifer's rap group at my local jail.

2. Acknowledging that everyone is an individual and therefore we're all basically the same, I do not think that tip-toeing around the subject is doing anyone any good. Rape sucks, but rape exists. We cannot try to weed out rape like we can with, say, the bubonic plague or malaria, because it's not wildebeests, teeny tiny evil bugs or cruel nature at play, but cruel, selfish or plain out-of-control human males.

One case in my own closer network threatened to shut us all down because of everyone wanting to be nice and helpful, and it made that particular victim the equivalent of a totalitarian dictator, which sucked hairy moose knuckles. Don't do it.

The therapy sessions were expensive but, in the end, total and utter crap, as these folks get paid to live off the suffering bit, syphoning off 'experience' and 'inspiration' and material for professional discussions, exposés or boring and useless books on the subject. Yes, there are those that excel at what they do with great results, but a good shrink is, methinks, just so much harder to find than a good plumber or even a good surgeon.

The one thing that cracked the case was, in the end, movies and games that approached the subject, oftentimes fully frontal and in-your-face: from that last house on that side of the road to that special day in the life of that one average woman to that movie with Dustin Hoffman to the King of the Ants. The result was a fully functional young woman that meanwhile performs outstandingly well under stress. Had it not been for these controversial works of fiction, the alternate route would have most probably been heavy medication, stints in the loony bin or suicide.

 

[Jim Worth]

The idea that rape is a fate worse than death is a holdover from the days when women were seen as only there to provide babies for their husbands.

Yes, obviously rape is bad. But afterward people can still, you know, walk, talk, and generally make a life for themselves. Pretty much do anything dead people can't do.

 

[nekoali]

The rape and misogyny in gaming culture is what the subject is all about though. A lot of the problem associated with the word 'rape' as it is used to mean a general statement 'I got you really good'. How it is so casually thrown around. People who have been deeply emotionally and mentally scarred by rape (which is not every person who has been raped, but it is a lot) does not want or need to be reminded of it. It is not so much that everyone needs to walk on eggshells around all people for fear of possibly hurting them, it is a simple lack of empathy and understanding for our fellow human beings. If someone gets hurt or offended by something you say.. try this. STOP SAYING IT AROUND THEM. I'm not saying don't use the word at all. But if you know something is hurting somebody, then stop doing it to them or around them. Free speech is fine and wonderful, but take responsibility for what you do. It is not a free pass to say whatever you want and nobody can complain about it.

For the other thing brought up... Why is rape worse than murder? Because most people survive rape, and not murder. The immediacy of being the victim of the crime is much worse than observing it. Not to say that those who witness horrible crimes don't have their own issues to work with. But rape survivors have to live with the crime and pain of it every day. Some people can push it aside. Some people find it a lot more difficult. And the culture of victim blaming around rape makes it all the much worse, and why many rape survivors don't talk about it. Many people, even authority figures like the police or people you would turn to like friends or family will look at a survivor and say 'well, what did you do wrong for this to happen to you?' And often not in so nice a way either. Survivors suffer through a lot of pain, mental anguish and emotional scarring that quite frankly, murder victims do not. The friends and family of any violent crime suffers, but it is several degrees less than the suffering of the person who lives through it.

Talking about and depicting these issues in games, books or movies is fine... So long as it is done respectfully. Something that is sadly missing in a lot of media, as it is in life. And also, if you are a survivor and you know a game or movie or whatever include a scene that you will find triggers your PTSD, then you know to avoid it. If you know, of course. I wanted to watch the Girl with the Dragonfly Tattoo until I found out about the rape scene in it. I almost didn't make it through the first half hour of Sucker Punch because many of the themes presented early were stomping all over my triggers. By the time the first action scene happened, I was shaking in my seat, sick to my stomach and ready to run out of the theater because of the pain and emotion the scenes brought up. Even thinking about it leaves me cold and sick and makes it hard to talk about.

But at least if it is part of the media and we know about it, survivors can avoid the situation they know will cause them stress. Or at the very least once they feel the terror and pain starting, they can turn it off, put the book down and walk away. When dealing with people who use words that trigger casually, in games or whatever.. we don't really have that escape. Asking someone to stop is usually met with derision and mockery, often with an increased usage of the trigger, and being told you should 'just get over it' or 'it is just a word.' That is the issue here. It is NOT just a word, it is a reminder of a horrible, probably the most painful thing that ever happened to you. And it isn't easy to 'just get over' or you would have done so by now. From experience, I can say that the mental and emotional scars of a traumatic event last much longer than the physical pain.

So please, I offer up my plea.... think of other people when you say things. Much like you wouldn't tell the survivor of a horrible accident who lost a leg to 'just walk it off', a rape survivor, or anyone who has suffered a horrific incident that leaves them with mental scars, should have their limits and triggers respected. Does it really hurt you to not say 'I raped you!' when you beat someone at a game if you know or suspect someone there is bothered by it? Because I can guarantee that it does hurt someone who is a survivor.

 

[Xixikal]

To be honest, I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced rape themselves has any right to judge what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' when discussing the issue. People are all different and they cope with trauma in different ways. How some people can even begin to compare the reactions of rape victims is unbelievable. You here people throw around terms such as, "a fate worse than death", how in the seven hells would you know?!
An issue such as rape is one I consider with the same mind as I do topics such as abortion, unless you have experienced it yourself, reserve your judgement and your apparent uncontrollable urge to play devil's advocate.

As a side note, I think it's important to note that it is not only women who are victims of rape. Thousands of men and boys suffer in silence, more so than women because society would see them 'weak' after being subject to circumstances out of their control.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

And just when people stopped talking about it you made another topic so we can all talk about it some more. God I love it when that happens. And no it's not silly. Rape is a serious thing.

 

[Madgamer13]

Rape is an issue that, for a long time now, has been debated on whether it is a fate worse than death. I won't make any arguments for or against the seriousness of the issue, but I will try to widen the awareness that it is not only the victim who may suffer.

Manifestations of the crime also have their own bearing in those involved, affecting not only the victim, but those who choose to commit to the rape, and others dragged into the misery of an otherwise pleasurable act forced horrifyingly on another. The implications are wide reaching and can affect those involved for many years, moreso if the crime was commited with additional abuse and/or on minors.

Many arguements I hear on the subject of Rape is from the angle of victimising the victim and demonising the criminal, which in my mind is wrong. Enacting vengence outside of the hard hammer of the law to a criminal and constantly reminding the victim of their feelings on the issue, only serves to extend the reach of the crime.

This can be used in a criminal's benefit as well, why should they continue any abuse on their victim when their own closest and dearest, as well as 'well wishers' will continue reminding the victim of what happened to them?

This is, of course, ignoring the abuse the victim may play upon their own minds, possibly reinforced by those who seek to help.

I have a video that may push a few thoughts on the issue, especially from the angle of how abuse could be depicted in computer gaming. American Magee's Alice: Madness Returns, depicts this type of issue nicely, I think. (Game Spoilers in link!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOSiGvYvQOw

 

[xPixelatedx]

This all started bothering me because my long time girl-friend was raped and the recent controversy bothered her. I was offended on her behalf to be honest. But the "why" isn't what you think. I'm upset because of the outrage that flared up. There's this underlining tone to some of it that's really offensive. They're a lot of people that seem to view rape as a fate worse than death. There are even more who seem to believe that rape utterly destroys a person, robbing their lives of all joy and forever crippling them. You know, that could be true for some people. And I feel bad for those people. But that's not everyone. Every victim of rape does not live the rest of their entire life thinking of themselves as a victim.

THANK YOU. If I should shake your hand I would. I will also reiterate my own comment I was making in the Jim Sterling thread:

If someone had a choice to either be raped or murdered, most would choose rape, including many of the people on this board who were saying rape was worse.

Of course dying is worse, there really isn't even a discussion happening here. The reason why the issue is being debated at all is because the gaming community has been put in an awkward position where it has to analyze and defend itself now that the rape card has been played. Most of us (thankfully) don't want rape in our games, but we fear that our murderous tendencies will be used against us in the same arguments. Being the mass (fictional) murders we are, we are not really in a position to judge (fictional) rape in an objectionable way. We can try, but only by making mass murder look good by comparison.. which is comedic, to say the least. What bothers me the most about all this is that Jim was talking about video game murder and rape like they were both real things, saying things like video game characters don't suffer because they often die fast. Because they die fast..!? I think Jim failed to mention they also don't suffer because they are not REAL XD

I do however agree with Jim in that rape is more evil then murder, however evil =/= worse. It is more evil for me to steal my younger cousin's ice cream and make her cry, then... to say, rob an ice cream shop to feed my starving family. But robbing that store (good intentions or not) is definitely much worse then stealing from a child. If Jim presented his argument differently and said 'we shouldn't be trying to commit acts of evil' rather then 'murder is OK', I would have been more on board with his rant.

Killing things has always been a staple in video games, from blowing up 4 pixel high space ships too stomping on turtles. It doesn't need to be justified or used as a defense for anything, it simply is. Weather or not our games should now include rape isn't even a conversation we should be having. I blame everyone for letting games get this grungy. But I expected nothing less from the crowd of people this gen brought into the fold.

 

[Kordie]

^^^ Seconding the whole PTSD spiel. You should probably look into it.

Not too much to say that Lilani didn't, though. Just consider his/her comment again.

I want to add my 2 cents on the topic of PTSD. For some background, I was in the army for 5 years, and I happen to know a lot of people who are seriously messed up from things they saw over there.

Spoiler: a few gory details

I worked as part of an explosive disposal team which means dealing with roadside bombs. Both disarming them, and cleaning up the mess after one explodes. It's not so bad when you don't have a conection to the victim, but when it's one of your friends that gets hit, thats a different story. Most of the guys I know couldn't go to a barbeque for quite some time because the smell reminded them of cooked flesh. I'll also never get over how accurate a lot of movie props seem now, a face looks a lot like a rubber mask when it's just sitting on the ground.

Now,everyone I know was affected to some degree, whether it was full blown alcoholism and depression, or scenes they can never forget. One thing that I went through a lot myself, was feeling like I had a problem because I wasn't going through it as bad as some people. With all our training on PTSD, and everything I saw, I felt like I was supposed to be all messed up. This in turn made me MORE messed up for a while, until I did more research on the issue and saw I was having a normal response. PTSD affects everyone differently, and expectations that you are supposed to be having all these issues can make them manifest.

Two main things to note here, no one can predict what kind of event will cause PTSD. I have seen cases where people experience much less than I and have broken down. I have also people go through worse and be fine. Second is that most people do not know what a healthy reaction is to a traumatic event. Depression, nightmares, flashbacks, anger, withdrawn from society, these are all normal possible reactions to a traumatic event. You may experience some, none, or all and more of those. Where it crosses into a serious issue is when those issues persist for longer than 6 months. This is not to say you shouldn't seek help. Making the assumption that a given trauma will destroy your life to the point youd rather be dead makes as much sense as saying you will be perfectly fine afterwards. You are much more likely to end up in the middle.

If I had to sum it up in a couple of sentences, PTSD is a complicated issue. Assuming a trauma will destroy your life is not always accurate. While a trauma CAN effectivly destroy your life, this is not the case for everyone. Thinking that way can make other people have more issues than they would normally develop.

 

[Zaik]

To be fair, it never wasn't silly.

In the beginning, there seemed to be a few that just thought intentionally stirring up controversy with the subject(the way it was done) was in poor taste, but even then they were a very small minority in comparison to the legion of white knights rushing to be the first and loudest to ARR BLAGHTOERAHG SEXISM GHRIUHNPFDSYHRSPFDHGNAGH RAGE ETC.

 

[aestu]

The Holocaust was a terrible, terrible thing - I myself have relatives that didn't make it - but the one millionth Holocaust movie or hearing the Israelis invoke the Holocaust as carte blanche for their own evil is not productive, it invites cynicism and devalues the significance of what happened.

I said I had relatives that didn't make it. Actually, that's not true. But how would anyone know the difference? And what difference would that make to the discussion?

The same is true of rape. It's doing no favor to anyone to make everyone jaded and cynical - to inevitably turn sympathy into eyerolling - by invoking the R-word at every turn.

And this Lara Croft controversy? Evil. Let's be honest. We know what this is about. It is the deliberate courting of controversy to sell boxes.

No matter if you're a man or a woman, a rape victim or not, any sensible person should find this stunt despicable.

 

[mad825]

Rape is bad.

Thanks escapist. If you never said that I might have never known.

 

[Hagi]

I think two things need to be differentiated. There's a difference between raping and being raped.

Being raped isn't worse than death. Even with all the fear and scars this causes there's still room for hope, joy and love. Life will never be the same as before it was happened, but there's still life. It's because of this that we give rape victims therapy and not poison, because there's still good things to be found in life even among all the fear, disgust and terror.

But raping is worse than murdering. Rape centres around making the other person suffer for your own personal enjoyment, it's purely about taking away all control and power from somebody else and then treating them as less than dirt by doing whatever you want to them. Murder is about killing someone. In the vast majority of cases there's no element of enjoyment from making the other suffer, in a way it's much cleaner. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the average rapist is a much viler person than the average murderer.

I'm not sure if that makes any sense, it's a difficult subject so there's bound to be some amount of misunderstanding, miscommunication and misinterpretation.

 

[Arafiro]

But raping is worse than murdering.

Wow, I've never really thought of it that way - but you're right.
Raping can indeed be seen as worse than killing, which is why one can legitimately continue to maintain that while being killed is worse than being raped, it's "okay" to have the player kill others in games. If that makes sense.

 

[TAdamson]

There're a lot of people that seem to view rape as a fate worse than death.

I don't think that anybody apart from a rape victim can truly answer that proposition but I think the high rate of suicide among rape and paedophilia victims speaks for itself.

You're correct that not everybody is affected in the same way or to the same degree but without treatment post traumatic stress CAN BE a fate worse than death.

But this isn't the real issue that is clogging up the blogs an the forums at the moment. It isn't whether rape is a worse fate than death,....

The majority of the discussion is about whether jokingly threatening someone with rape is worse than threatening someone with death.

The former is worse. For all sorts of implied reasons but mainly because there is no such thing as justifiable rape. Justifiable death happens all the time. Justifiable rape does not exist.