This whole Rape Controversy has gotten silly,

[MyNameIsNowNotMyName]

Let me help you out. Read this....

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/9766-The-R-Word

I'm sorry if you feel that someone else's pain has gotten too "silly" for you, but it's time to grow up. To put away childish things and learn that the world doesn't revolve around you. If you have never been a victim of Rape...be thankful for it. Because if you had, you wouldn't think it was "silly", and you certainly wouldn't have written something so damn stupid.

Wow, if you looked at that that is only the experience of ONE rape victim, of thousands, you wouldn't of "written something so damn stupid".

Also, sorry for triple post, I hate editing. I swear, I'm done posting.

 

[chadachada123]

The Holocaust was a terrible, terrible thing - I myself have relatives that didn't make it - but the one millionth Holocaust movie or hearing the Israelis invoke the Holocaust as carte blanche for their own evil is not productive, it invites cynicism and devalues the significance of what happened.

I said I had relatives that didn't make it. Actually, that's not true. But how would anyone know the difference? And what difference would that make to the discussion?

The same is true of rape. It's doing no favor to anyone to make everyone jaded and cynical - to inevitably turn sympathy into eyerolling - by invoking the R-word at every turn.

And this Lara Croft controversy? Evil. Let's be honest. We know what this is about. It is the deliberate courting of controversy to sell boxes.

No matter if you're a man or a woman, a rape victim or not, any sensible person should find this stunt despicable.

I don't think that including the threat of assault is a bad thing, at all, because to NOT include it would be so jarringly unrealistic that we would likely forget that there is a seventeen year old girl alone on an island with a ton of murderers.

That said, its inclusion in promotional materials is most-definitely evil and was done for greedy purposes rather than for furthering a narrative.

 

[Mikodite]

There're a lot of people that seem to view rape as a fate worse than death.

I don't think that anybody apart from a rape victim can truly answer that proposition but I think the high rate of suicide among rape and paedophilia victims speaks for itself.

You're correct that not everybody is affected in the same way or to the same degree but without treatment post traumatic stress CAN BE a fate worse than death.

But this isn't the real issue that is clogging up the blogs an the forums at the moment. It isn't whether rape is a worse fate than death,....

The majority of the discussion is about whether jokingly threatening someone with rape is worse than threatening someone with death.

The former is worse. For all sorts of implied reasons but mainly because there is no such thing as justifiable rape. Justifiable death happens all the time. Justifiable rape does not exist.

Thank you! That may very well be it. Sometimes you may have to kill someone, but for the most part you can walk away from raping another person. The argument Jim was making in essence.

I think the scene with those battle nuns was horrible...I too have beaten sexy battle nuns yea knowing that what I was doing would keep sexy women dressed as nuns in there place. oh god....

Wee, we've finally stopped talking about that?

And this Lara Croft controversy? Evil. Let's be honest. We know what this is about. It is the deliberate courting of controversy to sell boxes.

No matter if you're a man or a woman, a rape victim or not, any sensible person should find this stunt despicable.

Agreed. The sad thing is, the industry remember when this sort of thing worked. Think of all the kids back in the day that thought Mortal Kombat was the shit because it rallied up their parents and many adults wondering if that kind of ultra violence should be marketed as children's entertainment. This is why the Dead-Space "Your Mom won't like it" campaign sprung from, why we we're watching Agent 47 fight fetish-nuns, and why there is implied rape in the next Tomb Raider game.

The industry still thinks that offending people will push product out the door. The sad thing is, they might be right.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I've always been of the opinion that games should be able to depict whatever they want, as long as there's a market for it. But the notion that not depicting rape to avoid causing a small amount of players emotional pain is somehow offensive to rape victims who have been more resilient and would not mind breaching the topic is a bit counterintuitive. Why would resilient rape victims argue for its inclusion if they know it is going to make other rape victims uncomfortable? In short, the choice to exclude rape by a developer is not trying to accomodate your girlfriend, who is apparently fine with it, but rather the more sensitive victims who get nightmares about this sort of thing.

 

[Nomanslander]

Now if we try to ask the same question again, I still can't seem to get past the notion of why rape needs to be in video games to begin with if it has nothing to do with the story.

For pornographic reasons, of course.

Ok?? Well--that's wrong!

Maybe I'm still missing something here, but if that's what it's also going to be used for...it's wrong!

And those are my two cents.

 

[Jimesis]

Hey Elf, thanks so much for sharing your experience! This is a supremely personal thing and it's kind of you to enlighten us, it really enriches the thread.

What happened to you and your feelings on it illustrate how varied reactions to this kind of trauma can be. There's so many variables to consider, like the type of person one is, his/her relationship to their attacker, and how he/she was attacked. You can't generalize about an experience like this at all and it's unfortunate that people try. You also can't really understand someone's perspective if you don't speak with them about it.

I haven't gone into details about my gf's attack because sharing that was not a decision I was comfortable making on my own. I asked her if it would be ok and she said "Go for it" without hesitation, so here's me going for it:

When she was 16 she went to another city to visit one of her best friends from when she was a kid. On her last night there her friend's younger brother (whom my gf also grew up with) and his friends offered her a ride to the grey hound bus station. She spent the next few hours locked in the back of a van fighting against 4 guys as they took turns with her while the driver kept them moving through the city. She fought hard at first, screamed and bit and clawed, but they hurt her until she stopped struggling for fear of her life. They dumped her off not far from the bus station, bruised and frightened and short a tooth or two. She never told her friend what happened and never went back.

From what she told me it was a very hard several months after that. She sought help for a bit and eventually overcame it. I met her around a year after the assault and would never have known about it at all if she didn't tell me about it later on. She sees herself as the same person she was before, but maybe a bit tougher now. She's obviously not happy it happened and doesn't feel like the experience has bettered her some way but she also doesn't feel like it's hobbled the rest of her life. And I'm inclined to agree.

Contrast that with this:

One of my closest friends passed away very suddenly due to illness last year. He was a wonderful person on top of being built like a tall line backer, all the girls called him a teddy bear. When he was much smaller though he was often abused sexually by an older family member. The thing that was worth noting here is that while he hated what this person did to him he loved the person. He was even sad when they passed away. I wasn't even aware that was possible before he shared.

@ Mechanized:

She (and I) were upset over the implied generalization that everyone who was raped goes on to lead sad broken lives completely unable to overcome what's happened to them. I know that for some people this is a sad reality, and they are not somehow "lesser" for not being able to put the trauma behind them, but that's not everyone.

There is also the view that rape isn't a big deal for anyone and victims should just get over it. This too is really offensive, even to my gf, and especially for people who can't get past the trauma at all.

Both views are pretty condescending but I'm sure they spring from ignorance rather than malice. People in general do not understand what rape can do to someone, its implications, and the many ways that one can come to cope with what happened. And the reason people are ignorant is because we never talk about the subject seriously. It's either tip-toed around for fear of offending someone or its trivialized and brushed aside.

The way to change this is to talk about it. To make it a serious discussion. One way to start is, yes, by having rape in games. I'm not saying make some games where you the player are a rapist, but we've gotta stop pretending that rape is not a thing that happens. I'm also not saying that the makers of Tomb Raider are a righteous forward thinking bunch. Regardless of their reasoning though they should be allowed to continue. Look at how much discussion was brought up from just a few seconds of a stupid trailer and some really poor word choices by the game's producers. I think as a result of this a lot of people will come out with a better understand of rape and the people it happens to, and this is a very good thing.

 

[wintercoat]

In my opinion about the controversy, portrayal of rape should never be taboo. That being said, the guy who commented about protecting Lara Croft made an idiotic statement. That says very little about the game or him as a person. He goofed, get over it.

It wasn't just some guy who made that comment. It was the director of the game, the guy who decides how the story unfolds. He's literally making this game as a white knight simulator. It says more than a little about someone when they throw a teenager in their creation through a meat grinder so they can "protect her" to feel good about themselves.

 

[CentralScrtnzr]

There are a lot of ways by which to be intimately violated. Rape is merely one of them.

It is telling, however, that the typical codified sentences for murder are much more severe than rape. I like to imagine that those who produced the law had some knowledge and sense of what they were doing and scaled sentences appropriately.

 

[zefiris]

That's what's happening right now with this whole rape mess.

Wrong, OP. What is happening is people like you silencing rape victims. Many people that complains ARE RAPE VICTIMS, you ignorant twit.

Other people, like Jim Sterling, are agreeing with them. They are not talking for them.

You are trying to make this into something it isn't, by trying to silence rape victims. Seriously, if that's not the move of a total douchebag, I don't know what is.

very victim of rape does not live the rest of their entire life thinking of themselves as a victim.

The only one saying this is you. Maybe stop bringing up things that people don't actually say. It's called a strawman argument.

A big problem here is that people are saying Rape should not be in video games at all.

With people like you around that immediately pretend that rape victims that complain don't exist, and that everyone who complains is just a white knight, I think the argument has merit.

As you prove, the gaming community as a whole is nowhere near mature enough to handle this subject maturely. You cannot even handle the existence of rape victims that disagree with you, after all.

white knights rushing to be the first and loudest to ARR BLAGHTOERAHG SEXISM GHRIUHNPFDSYHRSPFDHGNAGH RAGE ETC.

Yeah, the legions of people crying about feminism and whining bitter, emo tears that people dare to complain about sexism really made this a mess. They white-knight companies like the one pulling the Lara stunt so hart, it's not even funny.

 

[rbstewart7263]

I'm of the thought that most are too easily offended. Actual rape fine I can understand the offense its horrible. Actual beating of actual women fine still pretty bad. Treating game trailers as tho it were the holocaust. Are we so prudish that we can't handle a lil s&m or watch our hero can't fight her way out of a rape situation? An no crystal dynamics cares about this baby others assumed it was just for shock value without even giving the team an interview to stir up controversy. Despicable. You need only watch the,trailer to know that they are handling the issue w due respect not pussyfooting around the issue. Not can't can. Silly droids. Oh an watch interviews aside from the idiot exec you can tell there sincere about this.

 

[rbstewart7263]

In my opinion about the controversy, portrayal of rape should never be taboo. That being said, the guy who commented about protecting Lara Croft made an idiotic statement. That says very little about the game or him as a person. He goofed, get over it.

It wasn't just some guy who made that comment. It was the director of the game, the guy who decides how the story unfolds. He's literally making this game as a white knight simulator. It says more than a little about someone when they throw a teenager in their creation through a meat grinder so they can "protect her" to feel good about themselves.

It was the executive producer someone who has very little hands on with the game an little idea. They may be like "will this sell? Good don b't get off schedule" otherwise nope its just a bonus for him if the game meets expected profits. This is bone too dissimilar to the producers comments on that ninja turtle movie. The exec literally had no real clue hat he was talking about when he said they were aliens.

Foregone conclusion. Irony.lol

 

[Cheesepower5]

In my opinion about the controversy, portrayal of rape should never be taboo. That being said, the guy who commented about protecting Lara Croft made an idiotic statement. That says very little about the game or him as a person. He goofed, get over it.

It wasn't just some guy who made that comment. It was the director of the game, the guy who decides how the story unfolds. He's literally making this game as a white knight simulator. It says more than a little about someone when they throw a teenager in their creation through a meat grinder so they can "protect her" to feel good about themselves.

I know the man's position, I said some guy because I forget his name and "The director of the game" was a little bit wordy for basically passing off his comment as poor word choice. He was trying to appeal to the male audience, who he figured might have trouble connecting to a female character. That much is obvious. It doesn't make it a "white knight simulator." You don't watch some grubby, degenerate Quasimodo looking mother-fucker about to have his way with poor, helpless Lara Goddamned Croft, then take control of the glorious Anti-Rape Man then have your consensual victory BJ. She fights him off by herself, through input by the character (as it should be, people complained about taking it away for say, MGS4.) And it's partly true what he was trying to say. Men have an instinctual negative reaction to seeing women come to harm, might make the situation a little more tense, a little more dramatic within our culture. He just phrased it poorly and sounded like a jackass. I say: Big whoop.

 

[Bato]

-snip-

I never understood why there is this stigma against sex.
Where the naked body, the natural form. And slamming DNA together to make a mucous monster from some woman's vagina is considered terrible and should be censored and never alluded to!
But if you blow some guy's head off with a shotgun, that's alright.

I know where it all came from culturally, but I can't understand WHY that developed.
I can understand we all have a subtle insecurity over our own biology but is it really powerful enough to render Murder more socially acceptable than rape?

 

[lucky_sharm]

Hell, my favorite game has a bit about rape. You don't see anything, but it's heavily implied that a minor side character was raped. This character doesn't want to discuss it, so you don't. She says she doesn't want to be seen as helpless and delicate. That's it.

Aha! Dragon Age Origins, referring to Shianni's kidnapping, am I right? You have excellent tastes.

 

[Jimesis]

I'm not sure you read my entire post Zefiris or, if you did, you missed the point I was trying to make and the intent behind the words. That could easily be my fault, I'm not the best wordsmith ever to live, so I apologize if that's the case. If you'll let me try to clear the air of a few things?

- So I'm not saying that people are literally saying "Every rape victim lives their lives thinking of themselves as victims" I'm saying that the tone is implied in a lot of what people have said and it's a tone that's reflected in the perceptions of many people. My gf, who was a victim of rape, found these implications offensive and I agreed with her. I felt that the idea that most if not all rape victims are forever hobbled by their trauma is one born out of ignorance rather than malice. It's not that people look down on rape victims (though some do), it's that they do not understand that the trauma can have a wide variety of effects on people. The only way for more people to understand is to get people talking about it. Mature discourse will inevitably lead to better understanding as well as the lessening of ignorance and even condescension against people who have been raped.

- I have no intention of silencing anyone. I've expressed the opposite several times. What I want is more talking, from as many perspectives as possible, and yours is in fact just as valid and welcome as anyone else's. I haven't been raped myself, but I've been very close to enough people who have that I have a good grasp of the subject. I know that this is a deep issue that can't be generalized the way many other people have insisted it can. No matter what extreme of the scale your views rest at, whether you trivialize the subject or say it's the most damaging thing that could happen to anyone ever, you're wrong when you imply your view is a universal.

I am aware that some victims of rape are offended by the tomb raider trailer. But I don't know those people and therefore can't speak for them. The person still in my life who has been through this trauma did not find the trailer offensive. She found the implication that as a rape victim she couldn't handle a game depicting rape offensive.

- Lastly, again I don't think you read everything I wrote. And again I don't blame you for that, I wrote a lot of things. I have said, several times, that there are people who have been raped and been badly traumatized by the experience. And I do feel sorry for them. I never said that no one who's been raped would complain about the trailer, and I don't believe I implied that. If I DID then I sincerely apologize to everyone here.

I disagree with those who feel games depicting rape should not exist. In movies, television, and books rape can and has been used as part of a story without trying to maliciously exploit people or trivialize their pain. Writers in games should be allowed to do the same.

Preventing them from doing this, I feel, does nothing to help anyone. Maybe it helps keep the entire subject of rape out of the public eye, thereby making it less likely that a person who has been raped will have to confront the subject. But if we're going to take that route we should probably take shows like Law and Order SVU, which deals almost exclusively in sexual assault stories, off the air. Avoiding the subject of rape doesn't actually help anyone. By keeping it out of the public eye you keep people ignorant and this is why some people trivialize it, they just do not understand.

The argument that videogamers at large are not mature enough to handle a subject is pretty circular. They can't talk about something because they aren't mature enough and they're not mature enough because they aren't allowed to talk about it. If videogamers, as a community, are going to mature and handle concepts like these better they have to first be exposed to them. There's no other way.

- I'm not really going to address any of the name-calling, it's not necessary to do so. If my words came across to you in a way different from the spirit I intended then you were probably justified.

 

[anthony87]

That's what's happening right now with this whole rape mess.

Wrong, OP. What is happening is people like you silencing rape victims. Many people that complains ARE RAPE VICTIMS, you ignorant twit.

Other people, like Jim Sterling, are agreeing with them. They are not talking for them.

You are trying to make this into something it isn't, by trying to silence rape victims. Seriously, if that's not the move of a total douchebag, I don't know what is.

very victim of rape does not live the rest of their entire life thinking of themselves as a victim.

The only one saying this is you. Maybe stop bringing up things that people don't actually say. It's called a strawman argument.

A big problem here is that people are saying Rape should not be in video games at all.

With people like you around that immediately pretend that rape victims that complain don't exist, and that everyone who complains is just a white knight, I think the argument has merit.

As you prove, the gaming community as a whole is nowhere near mature enough to handle this subject maturely. You cannot even handle the existence of rape victims that disagree with you, after all.

white knights rushing to be the first and loudest to ARR BLAGHTOERAHG SEXISM GHRIUHNPFDSYHRSPFDHGNAGH RAGE ETC.

Yeah, the legions of people crying about feminism and whining bitter, emo tears that people dare to complain about sexism really made this a mess. They white-knight companies like the one pulling the Lara stunt so hart, it's not even funny.

Please point out to me where the OP says that rape victims should stay silent? You call him an ignorant twit but your entire post makes it seems as though you got 10 words into the OP before jumping to wild conclusions.

Also, your explanation as to what a strawman argument is....

 

[anthony87]

snip

Just letting you know man, if you wanna reply to a post, be sure to click on the "Quote" button under that particular post to make sure that the person you're replying to actually know's you've replied.

 

[The Funslinger]

I don't know if you've read this article [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/9766-The-R-Word] or not, but the way you said not every rape victim goes around thinking of themself as a victim, I get the feeling you haven't. While not every rape victim might react that way, rape can leave very vivid mental scars, and give victims the same sort of post-traumatic stress reactions as soldiers fresh from the front lines.

We shouldn't be afraid to portray rape, yes, but I feel we should also avoid misrepresenting it and trivializing it. If rape is going to be portrayed in a "real" way, then the writers should make the effort to do their research on rape victims and how they cope. Don't just assume it's going to be a super intense "growing up" moment that's easily interchangeable with some other tragedy, like a dog getting killed or losing a loved one.

This may come off really ignorant but surely some of the trauma has to come from how seriously we take it? I mean, it's seen as one of the worst things ever so if someone is raped surely that's shitloads more baggage that is going to be weighing down one them that doesn't need to be there. I'm not saying we should treat it in a light-hearted manner but it's such a sensitive topic these days.

I realise I could be full of shit but I've been wondering this for a while.

You're right. It's could experience PTSD from the event. OP isn't denying that happens, he's just saying it's not for definite.

Hell, I'm joining the Royal Marines. For a great number of reasons, but one thing that's occurred to me that really spurs me on is this: I'm a diagnosed sociopath. If anyone could go onto the front lines and come back fine, it's me. So when people ask me why the hell I could possibly want to go out there, I say because if I don't, my place will just be filled by some other poor schmuck who might not be as mentally prepared to handle it.

 

[The Funslinger]

-snip-

I never understood why there is this stigma against sex.
Where the naked body, the natural form. And slamming DNA together to make a mucous monster from some woman's vagina is considered terrible and should be censored and never alluded to!
But if you blow some guy's head off with a shotgun, that's alright.

That is a bit odd, isn't it. Taking away life is fine to show, but giving it? Perish the thought! xD