Thoughts on Hawthorne, Ca Police Kill Dog

[RoBi3.0]

I am wondering why the guy was arrested in the first place he was not doing anything wrong except maybe being black within 500 yards of a pair of cops. This whole video is a comedy of police errors. Cops that don't have the self control to ignore a guy filming them, don't need to be cops, or own firearms.

 

[Jadak]

It's unfortunate considering the dog was just protecting it's owner, but when a large dog gets aggressive like that, they really aren't in a position to do much else.

Now, there may be an argument as to why he was there in the first place and whether there was any cause for him to be arrested or if the situtation could have been avoided entirely, but I certainly won't hold it against a cop for defending themselves.

 

[Raggedstar]

OP is missing some information. The primary concern was that the cops were complaining over the guy's car playing loud music, not just recording police.

Now, to be honest, everyone was kind of being an asshole here. Well, everyone but the dog. Clearly not aggressive and was an unfortunate victim in everything.

The owner: Shut off your bloody music. If there's a tight police situation going on nearby (so at least expect a cop might get grouchy), turn off your fucking music so they can do their work. That's the first thing you should do when you notice something's happening. Second, I know that keeping a dog in a car in a summer's day isn't a good idea typically, but at least tie the dog to a seat. A flex-leash isn't that great, but it'll be better than just putting the dog in a car with an easy way to get out.

The cops: This seemed to escalate far higher than it should've. The owner didn't help, but it's their reputation on the line. No one likes it when animals are involved. The cops should've given him the time to properly restrain his dog, or maybe even give him some ideas.. Also going to mention that cops in general are CRAP with reading animal behaviour. If you're perceived to be a threat by the dog (or at least a concern), then slow down and think. Reaching for the leash is NOT the correct way to handle it, especially if a dude is pointing a gun at the dog from the moment it comes out and tension is high. Let the man get his dog and properly restrain it. Animal behaviour is not really part of their education, which is why fuck-ups like this happen and they do a number to their PR. Some cops do tasers and pepper spray, and while I agree that a gun stops an angry dog more reliably, they are an option.

There are a lot of bad cases of police being shitty with animals (some of them more black and white with the cops at fault). Dogs have been shot for barking at cops yet being properly contained and not a threat. Last year there was a case of a cop breaking into the wrong house, not allowing the owners to restrain their dog, and the dog was shot dead. A cop pulled up to a lady's house (not for an investigation. I think it was to ask for directions) and a dog ran up only to be immediately shot when the cop was just outside his car. In that case, apparently the cop also tried to bribe the lady for the security camera footage. A few years ago, a K9 unit was using people's yards for practice without any notification. A man's dog was in his yard, attacked the police dog when they came in, and the cop shot the guy's dog (nothing wrong with protecting the police dog, but the fact remains that this was entirely the fault of the cops for not letting residents know).

And some more recent ones.

Less than two months ago [http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/20198854-418/stories-differ-over-pitbull-shot-by-off-duty-chicago-cop.html], an off-duty cop shot a 4 month old puppy that ran out of the yard near the officer's child (puppy apparently wasn't a threat). Stories here aren't clear, but considering the excuse for the shooting was "pitbulls eat kids" and ignoring the fact that this was noticeably a PUPPY doing PUPPY things, it was a serious judgement error.

Just recently [http://fox8.com/2013/06/11/police-defend-shooting-of-feral-cats-outside-home/] there's also a case of a woman wanting stray kittens to be brought off her property, and while she had a feeling they were going to be put down, the humane officer that was sent shot all of them on the lady's own property. Technically a form of euthanasia, but didn't anyone think "hey, this might turn out badly"?

So ya, cops need to clean up their image, staff, and protocol on how to handle animals.

 

[teh_Canape]

They saw the windows were still wide open and they didn't give him a second to secure the dog better. This further confirms my cops are scum theory.

I doubt these are real cops
more like bullies with a badge and a gun

 

[Ryan Hughes]

See, this is why you do not give guns to police gang members.

 

[NiPah]

Seems pretty simple to me, you get an individual who starts acting aggressive and erratic near an active police SWAT engagement so he's cuffed and subdued to prevent any actions that may endanger him or the engagement. He has a weapon (dog), is approaching closer to the scene, and is verbally engaging the cops (unknown what he's actually saying).
Was he working with those getting arrested? Was he deranged? Was he just an angry citizen who decided this was the best time to vent his angers? Most likely they were going to question him to find out when he was cuffed and no longer posing a danger to the situation.

The dog was one of the main reasons he was such a risk, dogs can kill or maim extremely fast and you don't want random gunfire missing and hitting a civilian. Once the individual was cuffed the animal got out and was acting aggressively (even before with the audible barking), officers were showing restraint until it leapt at an officer (who it seems was either trying to restrain the dog or trying to get it away from the cuffed individual), at this point it was killed.

I'm amazed the officers let the dog get so close to them, while sad this situation is a mix of really bad luck and an idiot who thought bringing a Rott to a SWAT engagement and then verbally assaulting the cops was a good idea.

 

[dystopiaINC]

I have 2 dogs ATM and grew up with a dog in my house since I was born. I get how dogs act. I do. and I've never been attacked by a dog. at the same time I NEVER pet a dog I don't know. unless I ask the owner. Why? because every dog and dog breed is different. and I will not take the chance with a dog I don't know. for 2 reasons. First if the dog attacks me i don't want to get hurt, (obviously) but the second is even if it's a minor and forgivable bite something I wouldn't consider bad, that dog may still end up being put down if the wrong people got wind of it. I refuse to do that to another persons dog, just as if some asshole proceeded my dog and tried anything with them with out me present and they got bit my dog could be put down. I don't leave my windows open wide enough for people to reach in, never mind for my dogs to get out.

that being said. yes if I were holding that gun. I would have emptied the damn mag. No way do I take the chance, at all. if it was me standing there I would have been scared for sure. I love dogs. but I don't take the chance with a dog I don't know, especially a Rott already being aggressive.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

The guy who was arrested? Don't say he was entirely innocent. The video is four minutes long and starts when the cops show up, we don't know for sure what he was doing before the cameras rolled. He could've been insulting the cops, he could've been a rampant distraction to the accident that appears to be going on. He doesn't look at all surprised that he's being cuffed, he probably did something to get the cops to arrest him.

The people who were filming? They were fine to film, they weren't breaking any laws, it does make police uncomfortable though, so they ask you not to. (It's like being followed by a police officer while driving -- of course it's unnerving and you don't want them to do it, but they have every right to.)

The police? They sucked because they didn't have immediate self control because they let the dog be a problem when the owner was previously trying to get the dog out of the way, and of course, they shot the dog. But they shouldn't be representations of all of the police forces. Don't disrespect the police because of something that happened on the other side of America, the police are usually really good guys.

Why did they shoot the dog? They felt threatened, personally. You might say "well it was a dog doing dog things," but that's your pack of straws, because the police didn't. You can say he police were being trigger happy, but dude, the dog wasn't rolling over and asking for a biscuit either.

Why did they leave the dog to die? Because that's what police are supposed to do. They're only allowed to fire shots when they feel threatened -- and with the dog neutralized, they couldn't give it a mercy killing, because they are never allowed to give mercy killings. Whether you think breaking their code of conduct was sacred anymore after they shot the dog, and whether you support euthanasia as a reason to break the code of conduct, is your own prerogative. Otherwise, the police did what they were supposed to do -- and they look like complete assholes, that depends on your views of euthanasia. (No, I very well don't think they enjoyed seeing the animal in pain a little more than they like shooting dogs.)

Some of the worst people involved are us, the Internet, for immediately hopping on the side of the victim and saying 'fuck da po-pos'. There is no right answer, it was a bad situation, but can't you see it as more than a black and white situation?

 

[PotatoLord]

Any cop incapable of non-lethally restraining a person or animal in that situation is insufficiently trained. Any cop unwilling to non-lethally restrain a person or animal in that situation needs to turn in their badge. I usually like to take a neutral stance on issues like this, but this is just unacceptable.

 

[manic_depressive13]

That's what happens when you let violent animals loose on the street. Innocent dogs get killed.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Honestly, it's hard to tell in this situation. I can't say I wouldn't shoot a big Rottweiler lunging at me if I was in that situation. Dogs like that are capable of inflicting serious damage very quickly. On the other hand, I have no idea what the proper protocol is for an incident like this. Maybe there was a non-lethal alternative, I don't know.

Regardless, I think a little perspective is in order.

I realize the general public has a love affair with dogs, but...it's a dog. Shouldn't we reserve some of this outrage for, I don't know, incidents where human beings are killed instead?

 

[White Lightning]

It surprised me how many people completely throw logic and evidence out the window when it comes to damning the Police.

The guy was told to leave, he was blaring music which was disrupting what the Police were trying to do. He did the whole "fuck the police" thing and got to start filming, and didn't bother to restrain the massive fucking dog. Look at the thing, it would of had no problem destroying that cop. The cop was trying to grab it's collar to restrain it and the dog attacked. What would you of done? Sat there and hoped it decided not to kill you?

I don't know what's more pathetic, the fact that people would rather have this dog potentially maul this human being to death, or how quickly people will just immediately assume the cops are bastards without actually getting all the facts.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

snip

Finally, some damn sense here. Yeah, it's sad that an animal is killed in pain, but I cannot see how people can demonise a police officer for what is essentially self-defense.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

The guy came over and let himself be cuffed. I KNOW its against protocol and regulation but the second that dog came out and the stand off occured Id have suggested uncuffing the man, letting him secure the dog while i watched (Possibly with gun at the ready) then asked him to return back to be cuffed again. This seems like the most sensible course of action. He didnt kick off nor was he violent. He seemed somewhat reasonable and he obviously cares for dog. I doubt anything would have happened if they let him have a moment to secure it. I know they cant because something MIGHT happen and in other scenarios something probably would. I just got the impression in this one it would have saved everyone so much hassle.

As it is the dog was large and a little scary. The police might not be experts on dog behaviour. I would have defended myself too i imagine but then again I'm a little scared of the more vicious looking breeds of dogs. Especially ones bred for guarding or attacking.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Well on the one hand, I love dogs, and on the other hand, fuck the police, so...

...wait a second, that's not a contradiction at all!

I think the police were being unnecessarily violent in killing the dog, as they are most times in killing people. I thought someone invented tasers for this sort of thing, if it even went that far, which I doubt considering it's a dog.

That's what happens when you let violent animals loose on the street. Innocent dogs get killed.

Post of the thread right here.

I realize the general public has a love affair with dogs, but...it's a dog. Shouldn't we reserve some of this outrage for, I don't know, incidents where human beings are killed instead?

Dogs are in many ways more pleasant to coexist with than humans and rarely break the law deliberately, so not necessarily. Although often outrage does occur when humans are killed by police whilst not committing a crime.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Look, I love dogs and I absolutely love Rottweilers. I cannot watch that video, it breaks me on many levels just to think about it.

It also fills me with rage I cannot put to good use.

The dude stopped because he wanted to film the cops. The cops generally don't like that, but it's yet another piss ass trend we've got to deal with.

So, the dude cranks up his car stereo and stops. Cops ask him to turn it down, as they would like to hear what's going on. He does NOT comply. He also would not have had to stop at all, it was his free choice to stop in order to annoy and film the cops doing their job. He is NOT walking his dog. He took his dog out of his car parked right there to film the cops. That was what he was doing.

So, music blaring from his car stereo, Leon Rosby takes his beautiful Rott Max on the leash and goes forth to pester and annoy the cops some more. Blah blah blah, eventually he decides to put Max in the car, but when officers start to arrest Leon, Max finds it easy to exit the car through the open window, try to defend his owner and get shot in the process. Had Leon cared to properly train his dog, Max would have obeyed his commands. It was Leon that doomed Max to die that day.

Leon Rosby is an idiot, and Max paid the ultimate price.

Leon is a grade A cuntmuffin. He is responsible for the death of his dog, and it was a multitude of very poor choices he made that day that killed Max. He was not a responsible dog owner. I hate his guts. End of story.

Captcha: ten four. Really, Captcha?

 

[Harlemura]

Okay, I've never been in a position like those police were so I don't really have any right to judge, but I gathered from the video that the officer was way too extreme.
They fired four shots at the dog. The dog clearly went down after the first shot. Assuming that one shot wouldn't kill it, that would have given them enough time to acknowledge the dog was dangerous and it is now weakened so they can all work on restraining it in a humane way, since the man who just let himself get handcuffed isn't likely to run away, abandoning his own pet if he did, no less.
But no, they're just like "Whatevs man, dog on the floor, easy target, bang bang". I know it's clearly the owner's fault that this whole situation happened and led to the shooting but... But c'mon, it's a puppy, who shoots a puppy?!