To all the Europeans and Aussie's on this forum...

[Brett Alex]

Sigh. Firstly. The Army is made up of civilians. Most of them wont go gun down their neighbors. Secondly, we have MUCH more than sme pistols and shotguns.
Body armor is also easily available for civilian purchase. *pats his plate carrier*
But I guess according to you the French, norwegian, and polish resistance that fight against the Nazi's were just a bunch of crazy rednecks, huh? Brilliant.

Yes, put words in my mouth, it seems your good at that. I would thank you for the argument, but I realise could have got the same effect by bashing my head against a brick wall, so it was a waste of time as well.

Enjoy your guns, and I'll enjoy not living in America. Everyones a winner.

 

[falcontwin]

Thing is, we could go at this the other angle... Give EVERYONE a firearm, let people know that everyone is carrying a concealed sidearm... You bet the crime would go down then. Who's gonna try raping someone with the threat of a .44 looming over them? Who's gonna mug that old lady if they know she's gonna blow a hole in them?
Answer:

Spoiler

no-one

So your thoughts are if everyone has a gun no one will use them? That doesnt account for people who just dont give a fuck, if I know youve got a gun I'll shoot you in the head as quick as I can say hello. If everyone is armed everyone is a target.
u sound like one of those ignorant morons who says after this weeks American school massacre that "If they all had guns only 37 people would have been killed instead of 50" you do not want the entire populace armed and afraid with no weapons training. the reality is if everyone went to school with a gun there would be half a dozen murders per school per day (have you ever met a moody teenager). Guns don't prevent crime they make weak people feel strong and thats it. people who can't solve their problem with words will always resort to violence and if you add a firearm the person who wins is the person most willing to kill someone else. it's like saying the death sentence prevents murder it doesnt all it does is make murder legal.

 

[Gormers1]

No. Its pretty peaceful in Norway, and I think the fact that few carry guns (only some few have hunting rifles at home), has something to do with it.

No. It is the people.
Seriously. Guns dont make people into criminals.
Norway is peaceful because of its people. America has the gang banger culture, which is where all the violence comes from. If we remove all the gang bangers, America would be the most peaceful country on the planet.

You are right to some extent,bBut they wouldnt have many bangers then. There are a lot of other incidents which I think could have been avoided if the guns was harder to reach. Accidents has happened time and time again, and I think the halo murder thing could have been avoided. Even norway has "gangs", but they dont actually carry guns.

 

[mosinmatt]

the reality is if everyone went to school with a gun there would be half a dozen murders per school per day (have you ever met a moody teenager). Guns don't prevent crime they make weak people feel strong and thats it. people who can't solve their problem with words will always resort to violence and if you add a firearm the person who wins is the person most willing to kill someone else. it's like saying the death sentence prevents murder it doesnt all it does is make murder legal.

Firstly, Teenagers are not allowed yo own or carry a firearm. You have to be an adult. Pass a background check, pass a test, and get sheriffs approval. So, you're tell me that after all that, people still are not competent enough to defend themselves?
Secondly, Guns prevent 2.5 million crimes per year. Firearms level the playing field. Now a 100 lb girl can defend herself against a 200lb rapist. But I guess too you, she is better off calling the cops, getting raped and beaten and murdered while she waits for them.
Knives do not work, as they require extensive training, and physical strength and skill to use. NOTE: I have studied knife and dagger fighting. It isnt easy.
They say the winner of a knife fight is the one that dies at the hospital.
Pepper spray doesnt always work. Tasers are one shot, and inaccurate.
You will be surprised how fast someone will backdown when they are staring down a barrel.

No. Its pretty peaceful in Norway, and I think the fact that few carry guns (only some few have hunting rifles at home), has something to do with it.

No. It is the people.
Seriously. Guns dont make people into criminals.
Norway is peaceful because of its people. America has the gang banger culture, which is where all the violence comes from. If we remove all the gang bangers, America would be the most peaceful country on the planet.

But they wouldnt have many bangers then. There are a lot of other incidents which I think could have been avoided if the guns was harder to reach. Accidents has happened time and time again, and I think the halo murder thing could have been avoided.

After reading about the Halo murder, it is Obvious the gun was not to blame. The kid was obviously crazy, and planned it out. If it wasnt a gun, it would of been a 12" kitchen knife. Blaming the gun is foolish. They are inanimate objects.

 

[Arsen]

You can just as easily kill someone with a hunting rifle as you can with any "gun you can purchase" in America. Seriously, the "only let a few use the hunting rifle" thing is a facade of an answer.

 

[Lord George]

Has a gun ever made any positive impact on your life I'm interested to know? I mean despite the fact you get to feel like a "real man" I can't see any reason I would want a guns.

As for the crime prevention thing, I don't want to know that I'm being forced into getting a gun just to level the playing field with the criminals who would then all have guns, no wonder Americans are so scared of crime if any random nutter can get hold of a gun and mug or kill you so easily

 

[SkinnySlim]

Again, can I mention perhaps that guns simply aggravate a crime in progress, like drug dealing? I believe most gun crime is in relation to our out of control drug trafficking problem. Maybe getting rid of heroin would be the smarter course of action? Besides, most of those deaths related to firearms statistics people are throwing around are criminals shooting criminals. And I would dare to say that americans do not "live in fear". What the hell, you think criminal activity dominates our lives? It's a great place to live, so long as you don't mind the gunshots in the background....just kidding!

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

I dont particularily want to have guns introduced like that here to be honest.At the moment Britain has a lot of knife crime, but I think we're better of with knives, seeing as you can run from them, whilst bullets on the other hand...

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Again, can I mention perhaps that guns simply aggravate a crime in progress, like drug dealing? I believe most gun crime is in relation to our out of control drug trafficking problem. Maybe getting rid of heroin would be the smarter course of action? Besides, most of those deaths related to firearms statistics people are throwing around are criminals shooting criminals. And I would dare to say that americans do not "live in fear". What the hell, you think criminal activity dominates our lives? It's a great place to live, so long as you don't mind the gunshots in the background....just kidding!

Agreed, these stats don't take into account gangland executions, drive bys and turf wars in areas like Detroit, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Jersey, etc. So using death by firearms in America to be a prime example of banning them is insane. I live in one of the most heavily armed states in the Union, Utah. I can say I have no problem walking down the street or waving to neighbors nor do I have any fear of being shot at any second. In fact guns have saved lives in the little town I'm in like when two Hispanic Bangers kicked down the door to a residence looking to rob the place and instead met Mr. 12 Gauge the meeting went well with one guy hauled off to the Morgue and other probably still pissing himself somewhere.

Hell even our Mayor shot some people trying to break into his house of course he did that before becoming Mayor.

 

[NekoAnastasia]

It's pretty difficult to get hold of a gun in England, so I think people knife each other instead. Although I think guns are kinda sexy, on the whole, I much prefer the system the way it is. We have enough ways to injure one another already.

 

[notyouraveragejoe]

To be honest, not at all. Guns disgust me in so many ways. They dehumanize killing, allowing us to rationalize murder. Also the legalization of guns allows a lot of crimes to be made in the ploy of self-defense.

Cut a long story short, No... NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOO! I am perfectly happy with the lack of legal guns. I am fully anti-gun. But that's just my opinion. You Americans can enjoy your right to bear arms all you want. As long as you don't shoot me... accidentally OR on purpose.

 

[d4rkxy13x]

Quote from Z.P.: "In short, no. In long, nooooo(x1000)

 

[NekoAnastasia]

To be honest, not at all. Guns disgust me in so many ways. They dehumanize killing, allowing us to rationalize murder. Also the legalization of guns allows a lot of crimes to be made in the ploy of self-defense.

Cut a long story short, No... NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOO! I am perfectly happy with the lack of legal guns. I am fully anti-gun. But that's just my opinion. You Americans can enjoy your right to bear arms all you want. As long as you don't shoot me... accidentally OR on purpose.

I concur. Personally I'd rather have real bear arms, that'd be much more interesting.

 

[Force Feedback Codpiece]

Hey, Goatlemon:

Let's pretend you're paying a visit to America.

You're walking out of a supermarket at 21:00. It's dark and you want to go home. Suddenly, a criminal grabs you, puts a knife on your throat, and says "Gimme your wallet.". The knife is cutting your throat a bit, making you bleed pretty badly. You feel like you're about to pass out.

I'm 20 meters away, having witnessed the entire situation. I'm carrying a concealed handgun. What do you want me to do?

 

[wordsmith]

So your thoughts are if everyone has a gun no one will use them? That doesnt account for people who just dont give a fuck, if I know youve got a gun I'll shoot you in the head as quick as I can say hello. If everyone is armed everyone is a target.

True, however if everyone is a target so are you. You don't want to shoot at someone who WILL shoot back. Ok, if they "don't give a fuck" it's different, but that same person is likely to open fire whether you're armed or not.

u sound like one of those ignorant morons who says after this weeks American school massacre that "If they all had guns only 37 people would have been killed instead of 50" you do not want the entire populace armed and afraid with no weapons training.

Did I say no weapons training? It's a stupid idea to give people who "don't give a fuck" a weapon without training. The American massacres WOULDN'T have happened to that extent, as if everyone is armed, someone would have started shooting back at the shooter.

Guns don't prevent crime they make weak people feel strong and thats it.

Those would be the weak people who are subject to the crimes? I'm all for making those people strong.

if you add a firearm the person who wins is the person most willing to kill someone else. quote]No, the person who LOSES is the one who is least willing to die.

it's like saying the death sentence prevents murder it doesnt all it does is make murder legal.

Wanna bet? If someone is given the death sentence, the chances of re-offending is extremely unlikely.

Has a gun ever made any positive impact on your life I'm interested to know? I mean despite the fact you get to feel like a "real man" I can't see any reason I would want a guns.

You play sport? Turn your statement on whatever your hobby is. Fuck it, you're a gamer, hang on a sec:

Has a videogame ever made any positive impact on your life I'm interested to know? I mean despite the fact you get to feel like a "1337 gamer" I can't see any reason I would want to play games.

Shooting is a sport. Whether that's shooting to hunt or target shooting, there is always that "better, harder, faster, stronger" mentality. Shooting a better score, being able to hold a target (staying inside an area of the target) from long distances... It's all about being better and learning a discipline. Guns don't make you a "real man", but the feeling you get from hitting a target the size of a side plate from 500 yards is just... fantastic.

Your turn.

 

[Gormers1]

But they wouldnt have many bangers then. There are a lot of other incidents which I think could have been avoided if the guns was harder to reach. Accidents has happened time and time again, and I think the halo murder thing could have been avoided.

After reading about the Halo murder, it is Obvious the gun was not to blame. The kid was obviously crazy, and planned it out. If it wasnt a gun, it would of been a 12" kitchen knife. Blaming the gun is foolish. They are inanimate objects.[/quote]

Yeah you've got a point.
I don't know, but I just think its so ridiculous when I hear about accidents that has happened when parents have taken their small children to "have fun" with automatic/semiautomatic guns. I think a lot of accidents could have been avoided. Of course you have to have a gun to defend yourself in some cases, but I would rather have people invest in alarms. I guess I have this opinion because I live in a pretty peaceful place (compared to the usa at least).

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Hey, Goatlemon:

Let's pretend you're paying a visit to America.

You're walking out of a supermarket at 21:00. It's dark and you want to go home. Suddenly, a criminal grabs you, puts a knife on your throat, and says "Gimme your wallet.". The knife is cutting your throat a bit, making you bleed pretty badly. You feel like you're about to pass out.

I'm 20 meters away, having witnessed the entire situation. I'm carrying a concealed handgun. What do you want me to do?

Good idea, he's got me by the throat so after you've shot him and the knife slits my throat or shooting him and hitting me or shooting him and the bullet passing through both of us you can pat yourself on the back.

There's also the possibility of you shooting both of us and taking our money anyway because I came to the conclusion if your carrying a concealed handgun you're probably not out selling cookies.

 

[DJPirtu]

This thread seems to have people running endlessly in circles. And it's getting kinda boring.

It started out from a question wether or not Europeans and Australians wanted legal rights to have gun and the answers varied from "Nah. Don't feel I'd need one." to "Um, don't we already have that right?" with an occational "Got one. Use it for hunting/decoration/what ever. End of story."

The other question was wether or not we tought the USA have went crazy with their guns and... Well, that's why this thread is now at its ninth page.

Personaly, I'm starting to belive that the USA has too many guns already in circulation for any attempt to restrict their ownership or use any further to do any good. But, to be honest, I'm not that interested in discussing this matter any further.

However, there is a topic that I would be interested hearing some, especialy American opinnions on. The answer to the first question in the original post (the one about do Euros and Aussies want more guns) has been mostly negarive. Most Europeans and Australians seem quite happy with their current gun ownerships, or lacks of them.

Do you think there is a reason for them to change their minds?

Americans have been defending their right to bare arms left and right. Some by virtual equvalent of stomping their feet to the ground, other with actualy good and valid arguments. But what about the other side of the debate?

PS: All this has also reminded me of a short rant by a man I somewhat respect. I'll warn you, it's a bit explicit. But if nothing else, at least entertaining to listen to.
http://www.ranting-gryphon.com/Rants/2rant-guns.mp3
(If you're only able to hear the first few seconds, it's because of a bug in your browser. Download the sound file to your hardrive, and it should play quite normaly.)

 

[mosinmatt]

Hey, Goatlemon:

Let's pretend you're paying a visit to America.

You're walking out of a supermarket at 21:00. It's dark and you want to go home. Suddenly, a criminal grabs you, puts a knife on your throat, and says "Gimme your wallet.". The knife is cutting your throat a bit, making you bleed pretty badly. You feel like you're about to pass out.

I'm 20 meters away, having witnessed the entire situation. I'm carrying a concealed handgun. What do you want me to do?

Good idea, he's got me by the throat so after you've shot him and the knife slits my throat or shooting him and hitting me or shooting him and the bullet passing through both of us you can pat yourself on the back.

There's also the possibility of you shooting both of us and taking our money anyway because I came to the conclusion if your carrying a concealed handgun you're probably not out selling cookies.

Wow. Grabbing at straws, aren't you? Shots are RARELY fired by CCW holders in defense of themselves or others. You do not just draw and shoot.

Seriously people. You blame an inanimate object for something a person does.
Load up a gun, and set it on the counter. It wont jump up and kill the first child it sees. Nor will it hypnotize someone into committing crimes.
Criminals Do not follow laws. Making laws wont affect them. If they cant get a gun (which is easy, even in the UK), they will go to the dollar store and get a knife. Or go outside and pick up a rock. Or even go and get a hammer! Those things are DEADLY!