I never pirated a game worth buying. If a game's not good enough it deserves to get pirated though. Try harder at making a good game next time.
To anyone who thinks piracy is ok
- Thread starter icame
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I've bought several games that were rendered unplayable/uninstallable, often [but not always] due to the crippling copy protection on them. I then downloaded pirated versions of these games and the tools to use them, and they ran with none of the problems of the legally-purchased ones. Legally, piracy is bad. Ideologically, it's debatable. But seriously, if my experience is anything to go buy, what are we supposed to learn?
I gather it's the same with music, though don't have much experience there.
DRM bad, guys. Harms legal consumers while pirates get off scot-free. Logically, it then follows that more people will turn to piracy, "hurting the industry" to an even greater extent.
I gather it's the same with music, though don't have much experience there.
DRM bad, guys. Harms legal consumers while pirates get off scot-free. Logically, it then follows that more people will turn to piracy, "hurting the industry" to an even greater extent.
Hm well 18 pages in and probably what Im going to say has already been said, but here goes...
People talking about games not being worth the money and feeling ripped off - OK I hear you, its annoying to pay full price for something that is bitterly disappointing. I paid a few pounds for Metro 2033 and I feel slightly irritated. But that said, there is a DEMO available, for free, of that game I could have downloaded. Many many games release demos, and they are usually free. Steam even has a whole section for them - so the "I didnt know it was going to be rubbish" thing doesnt totally stand up because there are legal ways you could play it without paying. Admittedly, some games have crappy first levels and maybe the demo doesnt give a good idea, but nonetheless there it is. Can you not also rent games on consoles? Thats something I have not personally seen on PC.
There is also reviews. If you are patient, you can get a very good idea of whether a game is good or not by paying attention to user and reviewer response. I find that by doing that, my anticipation of a game goes up and its more fun when I get it. I put off buying Fallout 3 for ages because the VATS system didnt appeal. But finally I bought it and loved it, incidentally on a steam deal so it only cost me £15 for the GOTY.
Of course, console games are more expensive than PC. I dont know why, after all they still come on DVD's - but for some reason console games are always priced about £10 more than PC and I do think that is unfair. But the thing I have found is that, being willing to play games a few months behind their releases MOSTLY means I get them cheaper, there are more patches and often mods and walkthrough / gamewikias available, and there is still a constant supply of new games for me as the new releases age. Its just I dont get to play them at the same time as everyone else. Having made a habit of this, I now almost resent paying £30 for a game that is only £30 because its new. I would far rather wait until it hits the deal bin. For me, £6.50 always seems reasonable to pay for a game.
But I agree - MW2 still being nearly full price all this time later is something of a joke. I just simply havent bought it, as hearing that its basically 6 hours of campaign and a broken MP experience didnt sell me. Once again, the reviews and community response helped me. With all that, the idea of using pirated games has never really cropped up for me. Not saying its right or wrong, just that for me its not been something Ive needed.
People talking about games not being worth the money and feeling ripped off - OK I hear you, its annoying to pay full price for something that is bitterly disappointing. I paid a few pounds for Metro 2033 and I feel slightly irritated. But that said, there is a DEMO available, for free, of that game I could have downloaded. Many many games release demos, and they are usually free. Steam even has a whole section for them - so the "I didnt know it was going to be rubbish" thing doesnt totally stand up because there are legal ways you could play it without paying. Admittedly, some games have crappy first levels and maybe the demo doesnt give a good idea, but nonetheless there it is. Can you not also rent games on consoles? Thats something I have not personally seen on PC.
There is also reviews. If you are patient, you can get a very good idea of whether a game is good or not by paying attention to user and reviewer response. I find that by doing that, my anticipation of a game goes up and its more fun when I get it. I put off buying Fallout 3 for ages because the VATS system didnt appeal. But finally I bought it and loved it, incidentally on a steam deal so it only cost me £15 for the GOTY.
Of course, console games are more expensive than PC. I dont know why, after all they still come on DVD's - but for some reason console games are always priced about £10 more than PC and I do think that is unfair. But the thing I have found is that, being willing to play games a few months behind their releases MOSTLY means I get them cheaper, there are more patches and often mods and walkthrough / gamewikias available, and there is still a constant supply of new games for me as the new releases age. Its just I dont get to play them at the same time as everyone else. Having made a habit of this, I now almost resent paying £30 for a game that is only £30 because its new. I would far rather wait until it hits the deal bin. For me, £6.50 always seems reasonable to pay for a game.
But I agree - MW2 still being nearly full price all this time later is something of a joke. I just simply havent bought it, as hearing that its basically 6 hours of campaign and a broken MP experience didnt sell me. Once again, the reviews and community response helped me. With all that, the idea of using pirated games has never really cropped up for me. Not saying its right or wrong, just that for me its not been something Ive needed.
Eh, their intellectual immaturity isn't my problem. I'm not here to teach them how to not be idiots. They ought to know to deal with the content of the post, rather than pick a single word and use it to absolve themselves of having to think.Xhu said:
Right, because you spend so much time stealing and playing games that suck, because you enjoy them so much. Please. You pirate the games you want to play because they're good games, or at least because you think they'll be what you like. And then, when cornered about paying for them, you can just say, "Well, the game was crap. It wasn't worth the full price, and THAT'S the reason I took it."CountryMike said:
It was "good enough" for you to want to pirate it. That's plenty.
If you support this idea then why don't you go live in a socialist country?shootthebandit said:
I'll admit that i do a bit of music downloading - usually to sample albums before i buy them, but not always. However I have no illusions that piracy is wrong (i'm like a guy who has admitted he's fat, but hasn't got to losing the weight yet).
Piracy is wrong legally, morally AND economically. Legally, because it's illegal (obviously), morally because you are enjoying something a lot of people put a lot of hard work and money into without compensating them for it, and economically because it reduces profits for the companies that make the game. And before someone gives me bullshit about "evil corporations", like they're a bunch of greedy sponge-like entities made up of many small parts but operating with a single malevolent mind, THEY ARE NOT.
Most of these corporations (just like other corporations) are made up of average people working hard for an average income. When you download pirated games and similar items, you are robbing these guys more than anyone else. Don't delude yourselves into thinking you're stealing from the rich and giving to the poor/yourself, because a greedy CEO will not respond to falling profits by lowering his own income, he will respond by laying of employees. Think about that next time you pull the Robin Hood excuse.
I realise that this is most probably a pointless little rant, that it won't change any minds. But it felt good, and bad too, because i still download albums sometimes.
You have very strange logic. There are many reasons why a person might pirate an aweful game. Nostalgia for one, story for another, yet to get that they are willing to sit through a terrible game just for that. So likewise people can and will pirate horrible games that can certainly be deemed "not worth the price".dastardly said:
I see two little problems with this article (and the issue in general)
1) anonymous (aka economic) system
2) measurement of enjoyment
It basically treats every instance of obtained copy and its digest as a completely determinate action... If it were like that, piracy would be non-existent, as I can be spending two hours with pirated copies for various reasons aside the enjoyment.
And again... people are turned into system by this text. Which they are not.
I don't have a clear idea of how the problems can be fixed, but one step ahead is thinking beyond management, dollars, transistors and conservationism.
1) anonymous (aka economic) system
2) measurement of enjoyment
It basically treats every instance of obtained copy and its digest as a completely determinate action... If it were like that, piracy would be non-existent, as I can be spending two hours with pirated copies for various reasons aside the enjoyment.
And again... people are turned into system by this text. Which they are not.
I don't have a clear idea of how the problems can be fixed, but one step ahead is thinking beyond management, dollars, transistors and conservationism.
Your 'graph' is not based on real data and anyone examining it would see that it is ridiculous as it attempts to compare the variables "amount of people" and "cost". It also assumes that people would be willing to spend time producing software for everyone purely out of the goodness of their hearts. WOULD YOU?Koroviev said:Well, you quite literally illustrated your point, but that doesn't substantiate your claims.Kair said:It only covers piracy in a market economy. I have drawn a little illustration to help you realize the error of limiting infinite resources for profit.
It's just far more likely that, if they CAN get a game for free, they can just as easily find ways to convince themselves it's "not worth the price." After all, it's how we normally shop. If I see a frozen entree for $6, and I see it in another store for $3 (exact same product), I have no trouble buying the cheaper one. That's regardless of how good it is. I don't go "Well, the entree is really good. It's worth $6, so I'll pay that instead of $3."YukoValis said:
No. I am far more likely to tell myself, "Eh, it's not worth $6. I saw it for $3 in that other store, I'll just go there and get it." Even more likely, I'll just go, "Ooh! Cheaper!" And you don't get much cheaper than free.
ok, all this talk about games costing $60? well, i'm in Australia, and it costs 100+ bucks for a new game, heck, fable 3 cost $130, and i had to shell out $10 for fuel, so yea..... i don't pirate *much* now, and i don't dl them myself, i just aquire them from friends, and often, that leads to me purchasing the game itself, like minecraft, i loved that, so i bought it to support it. honestly though, i think the developers are as much at fault as the pirates, the pirates (with the exception of those who do it just because they can) often pirate a game due to cost issues, and the costs come from? the developer mostly, like EA for example, and all their methods of husking the consumers money.
oh, and @ coldstorage, ARRrRrrR savvy?
oh, and @ coldstorage, ARRrRrrR savvy?
I understand that developers and publishers are concerned about lost sales due to piracy, but this "crisis" is almost perfectly analogous to the cassette, vhs, cd, and dvd issues that arose, and have been mostly settled, in other sectors of the entertainment industry (I believe this was mentioned on page one of the thread, already). The publishers, and to a lesser extent, developers, have a large stake in appearing 'wounded' by 'lost sales,' but only because it allows existing executives to appear as if even higher sales are on the horizon to their stockholders, if only this "piracy issue" could be resolved.
Much like portable and digital media have affected the rest of the entertainment issue, piracy is essentially free advertising to a potential customer base that otherwise would not be reached. The demographic for pirates tends to be younger than that of the average gamer, which is already /fairly/ young (older than most think, though!), placing a very respectable percentage in the "my parents are paying my bills" category. One of the constants in our world is time. These young pirates will grow older, and many of them will cease their piracy as their life situation and economic circumstances change. Did they break the law? Sure. Will they eventually be paying customers, at least sometimes? Most likely. The Intellectual Properties they pirate now will be the sequels they pay for tomorrow.
In part, Napster and mp3 trading led to the success of the iPod and Droid, which shows that crowd sourcing content CAN be monetized. This is a give and take world, and pirates, for the most part, are just asking for an equal balance of power in that equation.
It may be illegal, but it isn't unreasonable. When the publishers realize they have to change the game, not the players, things might be different. But first they must change the present torturous system of poorly planned development cycles that plague the industry and destroy developers and discourage customers.
Until then, the pirates will play games they couldn't otherwise afford, and the developers will punish the rest of us for it. The power to change the dynamic is in their hands. Ask yourself why they expect us to adapt to their business model, instead of adapting their business model to us.
Much like portable and digital media have affected the rest of the entertainment issue, piracy is essentially free advertising to a potential customer base that otherwise would not be reached. The demographic for pirates tends to be younger than that of the average gamer, which is already /fairly/ young (older than most think, though!), placing a very respectable percentage in the "my parents are paying my bills" category. One of the constants in our world is time. These young pirates will grow older, and many of them will cease their piracy as their life situation and economic circumstances change. Did they break the law? Sure. Will they eventually be paying customers, at least sometimes? Most likely. The Intellectual Properties they pirate now will be the sequels they pay for tomorrow.
In part, Napster and mp3 trading led to the success of the iPod and Droid, which shows that crowd sourcing content CAN be monetized. This is a give and take world, and pirates, for the most part, are just asking for an equal balance of power in that equation.
It may be illegal, but it isn't unreasonable. When the publishers realize they have to change the game, not the players, things might be different. But first they must change the present torturous system of poorly planned development cycles that plague the industry and destroy developers and discourage customers.
Until then, the pirates will play games they couldn't otherwise afford, and the developers will punish the rest of us for it. The power to change the dynamic is in their hands. Ask yourself why they expect us to adapt to their business model, instead of adapting their business model to us.