To anyone who thinks piracy is ok

[Dastardly]

Pfft, piracy is fine.
It's a testament to the selfless nature that some people can exhibit.
All the stuff about it destroying industry is just boo-hoo from the publishers cos they aren't making the money they want to each quarter. So what? Produce a decent enough game to get people to buy it so they'll support you in the future instead of ripping your game off. Would you really buy a game from a company that has let you down again and again, or would you rather get a hold of it for free to give it a test run? That being said if you really wanted a game would you rather pirate it or buy it? If you REALLY wanted it... enough to say... buy it?!

Oh and btw, check your sources. I don't think ANY company wants to get the eye for being pro-piracy... ANY, especially a po-dunk like tweakguides.com! So saying that's unbiased is wrong.

If piracy has taught me anything, it's that people will believe anything is bad as long as its shoved in their face with a big sign saying it is and a rockin' tune that just makes them want to obey the law! It's that side of it that makes me lose almost all faith in humans... dumb animals.

Someone get this li'l nipper a medal! He's just so selfless in his giving of other people's stuff. There is just absolutely no evidence to support your claim that people who pirate a game to "give it a test run," and find they enjoy it, then turn around and pay money for a game they ALREADY HAVE. Oh, and then surely they'll turn around and buy the sequel after getting the first game for free with no consequences!

That'd be like thinking ANYONE, ANYWHERE goes to a deli, gets a sandwich, and then loves that sandwich so much they go "Holy balls! You--deli guy--I'd like to pay for this sandwich AGAIN it was just so great!"

(And before you try to pull the "Ah, but free samples make people buy the product!" game, let's recall that free samples give you a SMALL TASTE of the product in order to entice you to buy the full version. And promos that give you a free meal with a coupon? Limited time only.

The "free sample" provided by piracy is the ENTIRE GAME. And then it's always available, for free, anytime you like. There is no enticement whatsoever for these people to turn around and become paying contributors--they got it all for free, so why go back and pay now? They know full well the company will make another (thanks to those saps foolish enough to BUY the game, har har), and they can just yoink that one, too.

Nothing you say stands up to the statistical evidence, or even basic human psychology. It's the kind of logic you only find on an extra 21st chromosome.

I've done exactly what you say doesn't happen. Pirated first dawn of war then bought the GOTY version and all of it's expansions. Even soulstorm which wasn't that good. The enticement is knowing that people got paid for making a good product.

Anecdotal evidence that represents only a tiny exception to a much larger rule. Sure, SOMEONE has gotten the whole game for free and then paid for it out of the goodness of their heart. And SOMEONE out there has stolen a car and then bought the old owner a nicer one to replace it. Doesn't change the fact that it happens FAR less often.

Oh, also, you bought the GOTY edition. All of the expansions at a reduced price. Not exactly charity work.

Aren't you also using anecdotal evidence?

It's perhaps possible you're not sure what that means, so I'll explain it.

"Anecdotal evidence" is evidence that relies on (as the name implies) a personal anecdote. When someone says something like, "I know a guy that..." and presents that as evidence, what they're doing is making a claim that they believe can't be disproven, because it is based on personal experience. Instead, they're making a claim that has no value in a discussion, because it can't be verified, either.

In this case, plenty of people are saying, "Well, I once bought such-and-such after pirating it, and I did it because I enjoyed the game so much that I felt I should then rightfully pay for it." The statement carries the following problems in this discussion, relating to its position as anecdotal:

1) No one can verify if you've played that game, let alone downloaded, paid, pirated, or otherwise interacted with it. It's pretty easy to believe someone would just say something like that, with no data available, to try to mount an unassailable defense.

2) There is no reason to trust that you're being honest with us (or yourself) about your motives, even if you did go back and pay for the game after the fact. The "evidence" provided is self-serving, in that it upholds the point you were trying to make, and it is unverifiable, which is reason enough to disclude it as evidence simply because of the obvious potential for bias and tampering.

3) Anecdotes are inherently personal. That means they represent a sample size of ONE. Hardly enough to establish the idea they uphold as dominant, or even significant in its representation. Even if the anecdote is true, that means you've got ONE person in that corner. The rest of the data points elsewhere, so the scales are hardly balanced.

I know what anecdotal evidence means so I stopped reading after the first sentence. Where do your stats come from that show the opposite?

Consult the original article and follow the links. Then, if you wish, use Google to find the stats from a closer-to-firsthand source. Because this thread is about the article, the assumption is that anyone weighing in on the discussion has read the article.

Not anymore it isn't. This conversation has evolved. I don't trust the stats from corporations who have a vested interest in pumping up the numbers. Counting every downloaded game as a lost sale is total BS and I'll bet that even you know that.

Yeah, the article and independently collected data (most of it collected FROM THE PIRATES THEMSELVES, if you'll care to research your own claims) address that. They're not counting each as a full "lost sale." It does constitute a portion of lost revenue, however, for a wide variety of reasons.

Really, you haven't read the article. You're arguing against what you THINK it said, or you just skimmed it and said, "Blah blah blah, time to post!"

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Piracy will continue until developers and crotchedy old politicians stop depriving us of our rights to buy games at LOW prices WITHOUT illegal DRM's.

 

[Gregory Light]

The amount of times Ive Downloaded Games "for free" of the interwebs and installed, and cracked and played AND have been so disgusted in the poor quality of game content that i wish i could get my Download limit pack from The game maker is massiff but there have been time where ive thought OMG! this is awesome I must own this master piece or at least grab it on special on Steam when it comes out!! So dont sit on your Yuppy High horse telling me the over priced junk that is being shoved down our throats Should be bought, simple truth is if every game had the option for Co-Op and MP, all the keys were fully customizable , Great and intrigueing Story Line with adjustable to your PC's capability graphics and game play then WE WOULD ALL BUY THE FRAKN GAME (and I Do), and not all of us have the dosh to buy a game only to discover its crap and not be upset!! In short I use Pirated Software To Try Before I Buy as Im Sure a majority do, and as there seems to be no shortage of cash in the Software Industry id Say to you

Oh on a personal note I bought Hellgate London paid for the life time Subscription and conned 5 of my mates to do the same....wheres ya frakn justice now!?! 1 year later some tosser has closed it down ripping thousands off!!

 

[CountryMike]

You don't go to McDonalds, order a burger, eat the ENTIRE BURGER, and then say, "That was awful, I want my money back." Even then, they are under no obligation to refund your money or offer you another food item in exchange. You tried it, you didn't like it. Now you know not to go there. It's life, and the rest of us are somehow able to cope.

You could easily turn that around and tell companies to deal with piracy because "it's life"

And that's what the smart ones do.

Times are changing and those who don't change with them will become extinct. Like dinosaurs

 

[Seneschal]

The article reinforces my doubts that piracy is largely a developing world problem. It's an issue of international pricing, availability and consumer etiquette.

To clarify, in Central/Eastern Europe everyone has a PC, very few people have consoles, everyone has high-speed internet, the average wage is about a quarter of the American one, the average game costs as much as the Australian version ($100+), and releases are picky.

These are all semi-first-world countries with still developing economies, dirt-cheap tech but expensive-as-fuck software. For each game they buy, an American can afford six games. No one here can afford to support the industry, at best the rest of the world can hope to find an exploit.

The problem with piracy is that it is becoming widely known. In small amounts, it's basically an insignificant problem that affects a few sales in some faraway country that doesn't have a digital media market anyway, and wouldn't be able to pay for it if it had any. Western gamers obviously have a developed sense of responsibility for the industry they support, but how are overseas pirates supposed to develop that? The brazillian or russian public is not being advertised to, publishers aren't tapping the market that OBVIOUSLY has an interest, and instead of being exposed to the industry, they get demonized and threatened. If anything, this created the "sticking it to the man" attitude.

I also think it's a trend that's fading. Digital distribution is slowly spreading over places like Eastern Europe, and prices are... well, not really affordable, but much more reasonable than the retail ones. And with the exposure to western media comes the same sense of responsible consumerism.

Aren't games a lot cheaper in Eastern Europe? I bought a Polish Left 4 Dead for 10 euro (on steam)

That was probably just a Steam sale. Valve practically gives away their old stuff for free. In general, games at release in retail cost about 500 kn ($100) where I live, but Steam is quickly remedying this (hence my hope that times they are a-changing).

But people forget that this is quite a big region we're talking about, practically every European state that isn't in the EU, half of Russia, and it spreads over Turkey and down into north Africa. And then of course there's South America and every slightly developed part of Asia. Wherever the Internet appears, all of the world's digital culture is instantly available and practically free.

I'm pretty sure nobody here thinks this is right, but being enraged at pirates is a little too much. Western pirates are just people that want free stuff, but the overwhelming majority are overseas consumers that aren't being attended to, when the interest obviously exists. And for a service that can be replicated in infinite quantities for free, only physical distribution is the problem.

 

[CrazyDave DC]

I'm one of those guys who pays for all his video games, buys all his music off of iTunes, and purchases movies at HMV when I wish to. To be honest, I think the only time I have ever pirated something was when I picked up a few songs during the incredibly brief period when I had Limewire. To that end, I suppose pirating is something I can label as wrong in the sense that it is basically stealing someone else's work despite the fact that one individual act of piracy means nothing financially to a big corporation. Although it is worth noting that while one individual act is insignificant, a million acts of piracy will actually put a dent in a company's or artist's overall earnings, therefore, one single act, no matter how small, does make a difference.

When I buy something, my purchase implies that I support the company that produces the good and, in that sense, rewards the company for their effort. While I don't personally condone pirating, I can understand that, for some people, their wallets simply are not big enough for their appetites. With this in hand, the best advice I can give for people who cannot afford such a lavish lifestyle is to pay for the movies/music/games you really appreciate and believe deserve the money.

 

[LitleWaffle]

If they started pricing right I wouldn't consider piracy. 60$ for medal of honor? 50$ for front mission evo? 40$ for dead rising 2? These games are not worth the price, and I've gotten ripped off way to many times. Oh and for anyone who says "you can wait for the prices to drop" take a look at CoD MW 2. Still 60$ after about 2 years, and it's only half as good as CoD 4. Price them reasonably and sure I'd buy it. The only time I wouldn't pirate ever would be for companies just starting.

They cost too much is no excuse. If you think game companies are asking for too much money, don't buy their games, you can clearly get more use out of the money you've saved.

That's no reason to pirate, is it?

Retailers, not game companies.

OT: Try dividing games into 3 categories...
1. Brand New Games: Never Pirate Them! It hurts their launch sales and affects the game companies directly. They are your friends.

2. Old Games that are still extremely popular: Probably shouldn't pirate them. If a game is good enough to still be sold at a decent price after a couple of years. High five the companies by buying it. It will help make that company continue to not suck.

3. Old Games Nobody Remembers: You could pirate it, but your still a dick. That company isn't expecting any more sales from that game, so they wouldn't really notice if you did pirate it. But you still deserve a swift kick in the face.

 

[sniper9474]

Used the live in SE Asia, for DVDs, games, CDs i was given 2 choices:
A)Spend £30 or so for what i want, plus shipping, and get it a week or two from when i paid.
B)Spend less then £5 for 3 of them and have it instantly.
Find me a sane person who would happily choose A and you will win an interwebz.

 

[daavisb]

playing makes me satisfied. why do I explain this to you, if you are registered in the escapist, and possibly play yourself?

I like playing games, of course I do. But why does that make me entitled to own them and play them without paying a cent to the people who made it? Life doesn't work on the basis of getting everything you want.

I learned how to play several instruments, made albums, and gave them out for free, just because of my passion for music. Imagine a world where designers made games simply for passion, not monetary gain.

That would be a lovely world. Unfortunately, for many people their creative work puts food on the table for them and their family. If you take piracy to the extreme, then creative work becomes pointless; I can take what you do, your album and work, and distribute it free to everyone I want, whether you like it or not. You then receive nothing for your labour, and then, how could you continue to produce as much creative work when you have no living?

its right that something has to be paid to the game developers. and my money status doesent make me entitled to "take" the game I want. so Ill just register to the escapist of the year 2000, where games are reviewed, wich I can afford by now. or should I just close my eyes and pretend that there is nothing to see on this server?

 

[faceless chick]

thing is, some things aren't available everywhere like they are in the u.s.
try thinking outside of your little box where you can preorder the moon and it'll come with extras.
also some things are way too expensive to just go out and buy then regret you did so because you didn't like it or things you never heard of before if it weren't for the internet (i'm talking more about movies and tv series here)

if i find the series to be good enough, i buy it to support the producers (like i did with deathnote, a few pc game series and music albums) but if i don't, at least i'm not regretting it.

edit: btw, movie going has gone UP in recent years here BECAUSE of pirating. people got interested again in movies once they were able to see them at home so they go to the theaters more (dvd sales are shit and always will be shit anyway). it's a strange phenomenon, but it's saved a lot of cinemas and opened new ones...so yeah.

If you can't get it where you are, or can't afford it, then you don't get it. That's life. Steal, get caught, get punished. I understand why you'd steal it, but it's still wrong, and it's still ridiculously idiotic to try to "defend" it in any way. You're taking it because you want it, and you don't feel like going through the required steps to get it legitimately. Period.

Also, unsubstantiated claim that movie going has gone up "because of pirating." No data has been presented. It's just as likely that movie going has gone up because of on-demand cable and satellite services, for which people PAY, getting them interested in going to movies. I'm not seeing anything that indicates piracy is contributing to cinema attendance, so your claim is bullshit until proven otherwise.

again, i'm not talking about america, where being poor means owning only 2 cars.
most people don't own game consoles or satellite services since they're too expensive. basic cable will do.
most movies aren't available to buy and those that are are imported at american prices. if you can afford to pay me a monthly salary of 1000+ $ then i will gladly buy your movies/games which cost around 100 dollars or more where the average salary is 400$.

and for the whole 'get what's available to you"- why do you import movies and games? if they're not made in america, then don't buy or watch japanese games and anime, that simple.don't go on the internet either for it shows reviews and pictures of things you didn't buy so that's piracy too, right?

thing is, you can't make me feel bad about pirating. actually, you make me MORE glad i pirate things so i can look down upon people like you who think moral standards are measurable in money.this is one of the reasons the rest of the world doesn't like america- money is everything to you.get over it.

 

[UnwishedGunz]

thats too much to read but im all for piracy, but only with music and movies. i buy my own video games cause im that awesome!!

 

[frago roc]

I dont pirate new games, but old games that aren't available on GoG or other classic sources? If a publisher is unwilling to take advantage don't expect everyone to do the same.

EDIT: Note my probation status, I gots warned because I suggested piracy for an old game, but apparently thats against forum rules (read: it's not). A lot of people are super sensitive regarding the topic as if merely having someone suggest piracy will cause the forums to errupt into a pile of warez links. I replied to the warning arguing my point but was ignored. I know the rules, do you?

 

[Kair]

Though Communists know the only true action is the one without physical incentive, most accept material incentives in the transitional stage (the socialist society) on the way to a Communist society.
Social incentives such as being credited for your work may very well be acceptable in both societies, but holding off your own work to the despair of humanity in hopes of praise and love from the society is as short-sighted and ignorant as the capitalist doctrine. One does not need to have ideas 'stolen' by other people, but merely share them willingly with the entire human species.

My work has been stolen before; they profited, and I suffered for it.
That's all the evidence I needed.

The worst bit? It was just a Final for one of my college classes; no monetary claims involved.
It's that sort of feeling that makes me question whether humanity is even capable of accepting a pragmatic application of information (or procedure) without it automatically defaulting to greed.

I'm a social idealist, but unfortunately, I live in the now, and that reality has been a harsh teacher.

Of course, I'm done sidetracking this topic with my opinions. All I know for certain is that as it stands, piracy serves nobody but the pirates.

Piracy serves none except pirates, but it does not either cost anyone. It might serve everyone: Infinite resources can be distributed nearly without cost. This is why a pirate will never pay for information, and will acquire it nonetheless through any means possible.

 

[frago roc]

Let's be honest, pirates are breaking the law, a law that is fucked up, copyright for a song is 75 years after the artist dies, that's god damn ridiculous. 75 years after the artist dies the only copy that will still be around is a digital one, which you can't get from anything preitunes without breaking the copyright laws and creating a copy on your computer. So, let's just shorten the time to twenty years for the specific album/game/film, and maybe people will wait until they can't be arrested for pirating it.

Awesome, then I only have to wait 20 years after activision DIES before I can play a game for free.