To anyone who thinks piracy is ok

[Alexnader]

Addendum: Borrowing the game from a friend is akin to piracy. I don't know why you would suggest such action.

This is a naive response. You do know what piracy is right? You duplicate the software to make multiple copies of it, while borrowing something does not make multiple copies of it; there is still only one copy. Borrowing your friends lawnmower isn't stealing from John Deer, making a cloning machine to do so is however (if, say, cloning machines existed).

Also, there are demos you can download to get a taste for the game if you cannot afford them. There is also the option of renting if demos are not available. Even if you pirate a game to "test" it, you're still making an illegal copy of the game - regardless of if you buy it later or delete the copy because you didn't enjoy it. Picture taking the John Deer lawnmower again (I get a stiffy from saying "John Deer"), you steal it off their lot. You test it for a week, and then say "I don't like this" so you return it without them knowing. You still stole. Or how about if you returned it and then bought it, because you liked it, you still initially stole from them.

The rules on piracy are vague still; the internet is hard to make laws for.

That's because the internet is for something beginning with P.

A quote from the omniscient wikipedia: "Copyright infringement is the unauthorized or prohibited use of works under copyright... " When a person purchases a software product and installs it they enter into a license agreement, this agreement will usually apply to them as an individual but there are other unusual agreements like network license agreements which I won't go into.
A friend borrowing a game is an unauthorised user. When you lend a game out it doesn't always mean you yourself can't play it as well, this means that two people are playing a game when the developer has only sold one copy. Furthermore if the friend plays through the game on release day and then lends it to his friend then again two people have experienced the developer's intellectual property while only one has paid for the privilege.
This is why most agreements would restrict lending, because the freeloader predicament still arises. I mean who's to say the original pirate didn't purchase the game and then just "share it" with his friends? The only difference is scale. You can't say that piracy is merely the duplication of a work because in the end a game is just code, an idea. Ideas must be restricted on their use though they are also restricted in their duplication. In the end the only reason a lawnmower isn't restricted in the same way is because it is not a "work", a piece of intellectual property, you can't send your lawnmower to thousands of people with the click of a button. The design of a lawnmower is a "work" as covered by copyright but the lawnmower itself isn't.

I'm not denying that I'm stealing from the developers, however I'm arguing that this kind of stealing does not hurt them in any significant manner because I am indeed the kind of person who knows whether or not he would've bought a game in the first place. I'm sorry if I let you think I'm doing it to "try" a game before I buy, hah I wouldn't use such a common argument. I'm just saying that in terms of the greater good, developing a passion for games that will last me well throughout my paying lifetime is in my opinion well worth denying the developers a sale that would have never happened anyway. The developer has been stolen from yet at the same time has lost nothing, while at the same time increasing the chance of earning a sale from a future release. Sure I have made a gain without a loss and no Judge or jury would buy that story, I just want to share the way I personally reconcile stealing from those who create such wondrous things as games.

 

[Wow they sure are generous with the usernames]

snip

I'm for boycotting for the right reason but being a business isn't a valid reason. If a company acts unethically, protest but not being your buddy and working for small or no profits isn't unethical.

Like charging $5 for $0.50 worth of popcorn maybe? Is that the right reason? How about showing me tv ads even though I paid to get into the theater and you know I am about as captive an audience as I can be. I can't mute it, if I get up I might lose my seat and if I leave the theater then I will not see the movie I intended to see.

Holy shit are you really so self-entitled that you'd boycott a movie theater for making a profit off ads and popcorn?

So now a boycott is self entitlement? Oh my, do you want consumers to have any power at all?

Let me just ask, do you think that concession prices are too high?

Boycotting is not self entitlement. The reason you listed is.

I think that concession prices are high but there is a difference between saying that and saying that they are too high. Like someone who manages a movie theater pointed out earlier in this thread, the concessions are the primary income for many movie theaters that need that income to pay the bills for electricity, pay their staff, keep the theaters clean, etc. If I go to a movie and I really don't want to pay that much for popcorn and a drink, I'll eat a snack before hand. There are always other options available, the theaters don't NEED to make prices as low as possible for the benefit of you.

So in your opinion, as long as there is a good reason, people should not boycott high prices?


Ok, tell me, what would make it ok to boycott theaters in your mind?

See there's a difference between actively boycotting something, and not buying it. If prices are high you don't have to buy it. So if there is a good reason people shouldn't boycott high prices on luxuries. Obviously if a hospital is charging patients 5x what other hospitals charge there is something wrong there, but this is entertainment we're talking about.

There are also plenty of legitimate reasons to boycott a movie theater. Maybe it treats its employees like shit. Maybe it plays the films on old projectors that have very low quality. Maybe they keep their theaters filthy. All of these are perfectly legitimate reasons. But this thread is not about boycotting games, it's about stealing them. Boycotting a game because you disagree with the company's policy, or because you think the game is buggy and unplayable is the right thing to do. Arguing that a high price is legitimate reason to steal a game is bullshit.

Refusing to go to the theater and boycotting the theater IS THE SAME THING. So what is it that you don't approve of? That I am doing it because the concession prices are ridiculous? Why isn't that reason as good as any other to choose not to got the theater?

The two things you said are the same thing. I'm talking about deciding not to go to the theater a particular night, and actively choosing to abstain from movie-going in general. The difference is that choosing not to go to the theater is because you don't really feel like it, or don't want to spend money in that way. Boycotting is refusing to go to the theater based on an objection you have to the way they run their business. Your objection is unwarranted because 1. You don't have to buy concessions, they're an optional addition that are hardly necessary to enjoying a good movie. 2. The movie theater NEEDS high concession prices to stay in business. 3. If you really need to eat you can have a snack before the movie. And 4. If you absolutely positively MUST go to a movie and have popcorn, go with a group of friends and split the cost. There's no reason to deny the theater your patronage because of something like concession prices. But again, this thread is not about movie-going, it's about illegally downloading video games.

All this because you don't think I should be able to choose to boycott theaters because of their ridiculous concession prices!

You are bending over backwards to justify why I should be going to the theater but being very careful not to admit that, "YES, the prices are ridiculous".

I really want to know why YOU care if I boycott theaters?

Also, why is it that you keep telling me that this thread is about pirating? If you didn't want to discuss theater boycotts and ridiculous concession prices...why the fuck did you inject yourself into the conversation? Makes no sense. If you had not decided to tell me that I am being selfish for boycotting theaters we wouldn't be talking about this now.

Hahaha first of all it's hardly bending over backwards to create a well thought out post. You should try it sometime. Secondly, the prices are high but there is a reason for it! Things that are expensive for legitimate reasons are not unfairly so.

Also, this is an internet forum thread, discussions on said thread are usually supposed to be relevant to the topic at hand. Similarly, you're not "having a conversation" with another person, you're discussing a topic and others are perfectly allowed to add their opinions to the discussion.

 

[Wow they sure are generous with the usernames]

snip

I'm for boycotting for the right reason but being a business isn't a valid reason. If a company acts unethically, protest but not being your buddy and working for small or no profits isn't unethical.

Like charging $5 for $0.50 worth of popcorn maybe? Is that the right reason? How about showing me tv ads even though I paid to get into the theater and you know I am about as captive an audience as I can be. I can't mute it, if I get up I might lose my seat and if I leave the theater then I will not see the movie I intended to see.

Holy shit are you really so self-entitled that you'd boycott a movie theater for making a profit off ads and popcorn?

So now a boycott is self entitlement? Oh my, do you want consumers to have any power at all?

Let me just ask, do you think that concession prices are too high?

Boycotting is not self entitlement. The reason you listed is.

I think that concession prices are high but there is a difference between saying that and saying that they are too high. Like someone who manages a movie theater pointed out earlier in this thread, the concessions are the primary income for many movie theaters that need that income to pay the bills for electricity, pay their staff, keep the theaters clean, etc. If I go to a movie and I really don't want to pay that much for popcorn and a drink, I'll eat a snack before hand. There are always other options available, the theaters don't NEED to make prices as low as possible for the benefit of you.

So in your opinion, as long as there is a good reason, people should not boycott high prices?


Ok, tell me, what would make it ok to boycott theaters in your mind?

See there's a difference between actively boycotting something, and not buying it. If prices are high you don't have to buy it. So if there is a good reason people shouldn't boycott high prices on luxuries. Obviously if a hospital is charging patients 5x what other hospitals charge there is something wrong there, but this is entertainment we're talking about.

There are also plenty of legitimate reasons to boycott a movie theater. Maybe it treats its employees like shit. Maybe it plays the films on old projectors that have very low quality. Maybe they keep their theaters filthy. All of these are perfectly legitimate reasons. But this thread is not about boycotting games, it's about stealing them. Boycotting a game because you disagree with the company's policy, or because you think the game is buggy and unplayable is the right thing to do. Arguing that a high price is legitimate reason to steal a game is bullshit.

Refusing to go to the theater and boycotting the theater IS THE SAME THING. So what is it that you don't approve of? That I am doing it because the concession prices are ridiculous? Why isn't that reason as good as any other to choose not to got the theater?

The two things you said are the same thing. I'm talking about deciding not to go to the theater a particular night, and actively choosing to abstain from movie-going in general. The difference is that choosing not to go to the theater is because you don't really feel like it, or don't want to spend money in that way. Boycotting is refusing to go to the theater based on an objection you have to the way they run their business. Your objection is unwarranted because 1. You don't have to buy concessions, they're an optional addition that are hardly necessary to enjoying a good movie. 2. The movie theater NEEDS high concession prices to stay in business. 3. If you really need to eat you can have a snack before the movie. And 4. If you absolutely positively MUST go to a movie and have popcorn, go with a group of friends and split the cost. There's no reason to deny the theater your patronage because of something like concession prices. But again, this thread is not about movie-going, it's about illegally downloading video games.

All this because you don't think I should be able to choose to boycott theaters because of their ridiculous concession prices!

You are bending over backwards to justify why I should be going to the theater but being very careful not to admit that, "YES, the prices are ridiculous".

I really want to know why YOU care if I boycott theaters?

Also, why is it that you keep telling me that this thread is about pirating? If you didn't want to discuss theater boycotts and ridiculous concession prices...why the fuck did you inject yourself into the conversation? Makes no sense. If you had not decided to tell me that I am being selfish for boycotting theaters we wouldn't be talking about this now.

Hahaha first of all it's hardly bending over backwards to create a well thought out post. You should try it sometime. Secondly, the prices are high but there is a reason for it! Things that are expensive for legitimate reasons are not unfairly so.

Also, this is an internet forum thread, discussions on said thread are usually supposed to be relevant to the topic at hand. Similarly, you're not "having a conversation" with another person, you're discussing a topic and others are perfectly allowed to add their opinions to the discussion.

If you don't want to discuss this, then don't! I don't understand why you keep going on and on whilst complaining about the subject. Just stop responding or stop complaining.

There are always reasons for high prices, whether it be for profit or for paying the bill is irrelevant. If consumers feel the prices are not justified, then they are free to not buy the product or service. What is so hard about this? Why am I wrong for boycotting theaters because I think their prices are too high?

Why can't you go and just not order concessions?

 

[Something Amyss]

Pirating sucks. It's stealing, just because you aren't getting caught doesn't mean it's alright.

It's not stealing. But don't get me wrong; just because it's not stealing doesn't make it right.

ITT: People who think that piracy is actually justifiable and people who think that they are better by virtue of their not engaging in piracy.

I'll try not to take that personally.

Boycotting a game because you disagree with the company's policy, or because you think the game is buggy and unplayable is the right thing to do.

Albeit most likely impotent. I mean, the biggest problem with boycotting is they need to know about it. Otherwise, there's no real difference (in terms of money to them) between piracy, boycotting, and a non-customer.

I'm not justifying piracy. But there are plenty of flaws in the concept of individuals or even large groups "boycotting" products. One of them especially within the entertainment industry is that the industry itself conflates falling sales with piracy, whether there is any reason to do so or not.

 

[TurtleBay]

Albeit most likely impotent. I mean, the biggest problem with boycotting is they need to know about it. Otherwise, there's no real difference (in terms of money to them) between piracy, boycotting, and a non-customer.

But that is the beauty of it. Being a non-customer is capitalism at work! Game companies set prices, choose what titles to invest in and devote development dollars into things that they think will turn potential customers into buyers. Pirating usually moves potential customers into the non-buyer camp from their viewpoint. If piracy ceased, game downloads would fall and there would be more potential customers for the devs (people now not playing pirated games). Then, more money would be spent trying in game development attempting to attract these potential customers. In reality, the game developers know that at least some of the people who are currently pirating would buy more video games on average if they didn't have pirated games to play (or needed to buy to get their favorite title).

 

[godofallu]

That article was so biased. In the conclusion section they talked about reducing piracy and then a paragraph down the author claims to be unbiased.

I steal games that I have already bought, want to try, or can't find all of the time. If a game is really old and still has a very high price, i'm gonna pirate it. If the game has nonstop bullshit DLC packs for stuff that should have come for free i'm gonna pirate that DLC.

I don't really care what you think, and I don't care what the companies think. Good games get my money, and mediocre games get lucky if they get me to steal them.

 

[claw38]

I don't pirate games, mostly because I have no idea what to do with them once i get them =p

But I see where people are coming from with the cost..it's all about your personal morals and beliefs though. No amount of articles or commercials will ever convince pirates to stop. If anything, it makes it seem more enticing. I personally don't see pirating as a huge problem..there are bigger issues in the world than arresting Bill down the street because he didn't wanna drop 60 bucks just to be disappointed by Halo Reach

 

[Angerwing]

I was a pirate, until I got a well-paying job and a way to purchase games online. Before, I downloaded or got off others (who pirated) games I wanted. Then I would pirate game which I couldn't find in store.

Now I have a Visa Debit card (allows you to use your Savings account as Credit), so I just buy it all off Steam.

My opinion? If you can't afford it, tough shit. Get another job, or don't play. You don't need games.

Don't think it's worth the cost? Tough shit. Again, it's not a necessity, and you're not entitled to it.

The only morally acceptable way (in my opinion) is if you already have purchased the game, but misplaced the disc or something. Otherwise, you're a thief.

 

[Turbo_Destructor]

It only covers piracy in a market economy. I have drawn a little illustration to help you realize the error of limiting infinite resources for profit.

Well, you quite literally illustrated your point, but that doesn't substantiate your claims.

Your 'graph' is not based on real data and anyone examining it would see that it is ridiculous as it attempts to compare the variables "amount of people" and "cost". It also assumes that people would be willing to spend time producing software for everyone purely out of the goodness of their hearts. WOULD YOU?

That's not my graph.

my apologies then

 

[Turbo_Destructor]

It only covers piracy in a market economy. I have drawn a little illustration to help you realize the error of limiting infinite resources for profit.

Well, you quite literally illustrated your point, but that doesn't substantiate your claims.

Your 'graph' is not based on real data and anyone examining it would see that it is ridiculous as it attempts to compare the variables "amount of people" and "cost". It also assumes that people would be willing to spend time producing software for everyone purely out of the goodness of their hearts. WOULD YOU?

1) Direct it to me, not the commenter.
2) Yes, I should have explained further. You might as well ask, not insult.
3) It is not a graph, but an illustration.
4) The cost of production illustrates the cost as compared to the sales from the customer group (blue), as you can see there is a margin of profit on both hypothetical capitalist worlds. The profit does not go to the developers, but the capitalists running the company. The costs include the wages of the developers. There is no profit in the hypothetical world of free information, because there is no sale of commodities, only the payment of those who produce the information.

Firstly, sorry about quoting the wrong person. However, the 'illustration' is still at the very least incorrectly labelled - if you wish to display the revenue/sales of the software title/game/whatever, you should label it so, because it's current label implies that you are trying to show a contrast between a number of people and an amount of money.

I'm not exactly sure what this illustration is promoting, and whether or not you agree with it, but in the hypothetical world of free information - your capitalists do not actually make any money - if he is not allowed to put a dollar value on his product - rather, he must give it away - he is not making money, he is losing it by paying his developers to produce the product. Therefore, where the hell is his incentive to make the product in the first place?

 

[AngloDoom]

Problem is, the guilt of 'stealing' something isn't as apparent in piracy as it is stealing a solid item.

The issue isn't "you wouldn't steal a car", the issue is "would you make an exact copy of someone's car, allow them to keep theirs, and have your own?"

Most people would. I think pirates come in two flavours: they don't think about the effects it has on the industry, or they just don't give a shit.

 

[Vrach]

- I'm pretty sure that actual cost of making a game (when talking about high budget projects) is not barely covered by the store price of the game, so games should be cheaper, also it would stimulate the actual selling figures, plus the price is the same in most places but that actually isn't the amount of money that's relative to wages in the entire world, somewhere 60 bucks means like food for a week - don't use that argument "don't buy it if you don't have the money" cause you bet you're arse you wouldn't be saying that if it was you

^This, this and a 1000 times this. My personal opinion on pirating is:
Can you (afford to) buy it?
- Yes -> Go buy it.
- No -> Can you (afford to) rent it (I know afford doesn't seem like an issue, but when you have a game like F:NV, renting a game for several weeks so you can get some play time out of it can cost as much as buying the whole thing)?
-- Yes -> Go rent it
-- No -> Will you buy this game if you don't pirate it (meaning wait and buy when it's cheaper, save up a bit etc.)?
--- Yes -> Wait/save up/etc. and buy it.
--- No -> Pirate it.

If the choice comes down between you pirating the game and you not playing the game, then there's "no harm". The developer, your local game store, no one on the entire goddamn Earth benefits from you not playing the game. So if you can't get it any other way go and pirate it.

And before you say saving up and waiting for the price to drop is always an option, look at @anian's post again. I'll give you an example from Serbia, we're a country that has a standard considerably lower than most countries. The minimum wage here is about 3-4 times less than in any half decent country, average wages aren't much better and it's not like jobs are falling from the sky either. You know those horrible unemployment rates you're getting with the recession now? That's pretty much what a normal unemployment rate is here ie. it's a fucking status quo and it's not like it doesn't get worse further for this wonderful period either.

Not to mention, instead of game price being adjusted for such a market, the games are actually more expensive. I've actually got a better deal buying Battlefield: Bad Company 2 off Amazon.co.uk, with shipping cost included and I'm not talking about "hey I saved 10%" it was like half the money of what I'd pay around here (more actually, considering that if I was living in UK, I would've gotten free shipping). I've got a friend in UK working a temp job as a PA and they're getting paid 12 pounds an hour for it. You'd be lucky (and I really do mean lucky) to get the same job here (9-5, 5 days a week) for about 500 euros a month, which comes out to the awesome 3.5 euros or about 3 pounds an hour. That's 4 times less right there and considering games can be 20-50% more expensive over here (because unlike elsewhere you don't really have stores that offer any real bargains), to pay the same rate in England, a 40 pound game (which is about the standard these days) would in fact come out to be a 190-240 pounds. Come look me in the eye and tell me you'd pay an average of 200+ pounds (230 euros/320$) for a game and then you can tell me pirating is universally wrong

Oh and before you think about it, renting's not an option either sadly. The few places that still rent games (and frankly I don't know of a single one, the few I knew before closed down) rent pirated games as well so you're not doing the developer any favours. Also note that the above example of 500e/month is kinda optimistic, in reality it's usually 300-400, depending on where you get hired.

 

[Seneschal]

- I'm pretty sure that actual cost of making a game (when talking about high budget projects) is not barely covered by the store price of the game, so games should be cheaper, also it would stimulate the actual selling figures, plus the price is the same in most places but that actually isn't the amount of money that's relative to wages in the entire world, somewhere 60 bucks means like food for a week - don't use that argument "don't buy it if you don't have the money" cause you bet you're arse you wouldn't be saying that if it was you

^This, this and a 1000 times this. My personal opinion on pirating is:
Can you (afford to) buy it?
- Yes -> Go buy it.
- No -> Can you (afford to) rent it (I know afford doesn't seem like an issue, but when you have a game like F:NV, renting a game for several weeks so you can get some play time out of it can cost as much as buying the whole thing)?
-- Yes -> Go rent it
-- No -> Will you buy this game if you don't pirate it (meaning wait and buy when it's cheaper, save up a bit etc.)?
--- Yes -> Wait/save up/etc. and buy it.
--- No -> Pirate it.

If the choice comes down between you pirating the game and you not playing the game, then there's "no harm". The developer, your local game store, no one on the entire goddamn Earth benefits from you not playing the game. So if you can't get it any other way go and pirate it.

And before you say saving up and waiting for the price to drop is always an option, look at @anian's post again. I'll give you an example from Serbia, we're a country that has a standard considerably lower than most countries. The minimum wage here is about 3-4 times less than in any half decent country, average wages aren't much better and it's not like jobs are falling from the sky either. You know those horrible unemployment rates you're getting with the recession now? That's pretty much what a normal unemployment rate is here ie. it's a fucking status quo and it's not like it doesn't get worse further for this wonderful period either.

Not to mention, instead of game price being adjusted for such a market, the games are actually more expensive. I've actually got a better deal buying Battlefield: Bad Company 2 off Amazon.co.uk, with shipping cost included and I'm not talking about "hey I saved 10%" it was like half the money of what I'd pay around here (more actually, considering that if I was living in UK, I would've gotten free shipping). I've got a friend in UK working a temp job as a PA and they're getting paid 12 pounds an hour for it. You'd be lucky (and I really do mean lucky) to get the same job here (9-5, 5 days a week) for about 500 euros a month, which comes out to the awesome 3.5 euros or about 3 pounds an hour. That's 4 times less right there and considering games can be 20-50% more expensive over here (because unlike elsewhere you don't really have stores that offer any real bargains), to pay the same rate in England, a 40 pound game (which is about the standard these days) would in fact come out to be a 190-240 pounds. Come look me in the eye and tell me you'd pay an average of 200+ pounds (230 euros/320$) for a game and then you can tell me pirating is universally wrong

Oh and before you think about it, renting's not an option either sadly. The few places that still rent games (and frankly I don't know of a single one, the few I knew before closed down) rent pirated games as well so you're not doing the developer any favours. Also note that the above example of 500e/month is kinda optimistic, in reality it's usually 300-400, depending on where you get hired.

Yes, as far as Eastern Europe is concerned, I've never even heard of a place that rents games. During the late 90s/early 00s there were those gaming parlours or something, where you could play in LAN for about $2 an hour, and it was a very efficient way to game, circumventing the ridiculous prices in the region. But they've closed down when cheap PC tech became available to the average consumer and T-com brought in broadband internet.

So it's more about an utter lack of options. I can buy games at a bookstore for a quarter of a monthly wage, or I can fuck off for all they care. Well, sorry, I cannot do that more than twice a year, so that makes me an "undesirable audience" I guess.

 

[Vrach]

Yes, as far as Eastern Europe is concerned, I've never even heard of a place that rents games. During the late 90s/early 00s there were those gaming parlours or something, where you could play in LAN for about $2 an hour, and it was a very efficient way to game, circumventing the ridiculous prices in the region. But they've closed down when cheap PC tech became available to the average consumer and T-com brought in broadband internet.

So it's more about an utter lack of options. I can buy games at a bookstore for a quarter of a monthly wage, or I can fuck off for all they care. Well, sorry, I cannot do that more than twice a year, so that makes me an "undesirable audience" I guess.

/wave to a fellow ex-Yu

Another big reason the cybercafes (I know, translating "igraonica" is tricky, but finally found the word ^^) were active was because, at the time, they also used pirated software. Not sure what the situation was in Croatia, but the copyright laws are actually fairly new for Serbia, all things considered. I think it was '98 when they were actually first passed (or just started incurring more of a penalty than a slap on the wrist and a slip of cash to a passing cop), though with the aftermath of the 99's NATO bombing, no one gave a fuck throughout the early 00's, which is how those places survived a bit longer, we had bigger problems to deal with and even the government was still in a "fuck you NATO and all related parties" state of mind.

Now that the law is enforced for companies making money off the software however (any businesses, internet/cybercafes etc.), most of them are forced to use legal software (though that might just be Belgrade... I did see a very obvious Razor1911 Command Prompt screen when I was last in Novi Sad and decided to give GTA4 a go), which, for a place that was used to previously hosting 64-100+ computers, is just a ridiculous investment to be made in this region. Add to that as you said, it's easy to grab anything on your own nowadays and a decent PC is much easier to get your hands on and they're pretty much dead. We got a few remaining ones around here, but they only have old games like Counter Strike which they probably picked up on a Steam bargain or something and of course... WoW, which is probably the game keeping those places alive on it's own, considering the number of students that are coming in from outside Belgrade and staying in student homes.

Fact is, most other products are financially adapted for a region. I wanna see a movie, it costs me about 3.5 euros to go to a theatre (not some half assed theatre in the middle of nowhere, it's a standard price). Comparatively, my friends from UK pay 10 pounds/12 euros or so for a ticket, so it's very obviously an adapted price. Game industry is currently just not doing their part to offer affordable prices to certain regions (which, as @Senechal said, are not at all some minority that's just not worth dealing with), so they can't expect full support from those regions either.

 

[Killbot]

Pfft, piracy is fine.
It's a testament to the selfless nature that some people can exhibit.
All the stuff about it destroying industry is just boo-hoo from the publishers cos they aren't making the money they want to each quarter. So what? Produce a decent enough game to get people to buy it so they'll support you in the future instead of ripping your game off. Would you really buy a game from a company that has let you down again and again, or would you rather get a hold of it for free to give it a test run? That being said if you really wanted a game would you rather pirate it or buy it? If you REALLY wanted it... enough to say... buy it?!

Oh and btw, check your sources. I don't think ANY company wants to get the eye for being pro-piracy... ANY, especially a po-dunk like tweakguides.com! So saying that's unbiased is wrong.

If piracy has taught me anything, it's that people will believe anything is bad as long as its shoved in their face with a big sign saying it is and a rockin' tune that just makes them want to obey the law! It's that side of it that makes me lose almost all faith in humans... dumb animals.

Someone get this li'l nipper a medal! He's just so selfless in his giving of other people's stuff. There is just absolutely no evidence to support your claim that people who pirate a game to "give it a test run," and find they enjoy it, then turn around and pay money for a game they ALREADY HAVE. Oh, and then surely they'll turn around and buy the sequel after getting the first game for free with no consequences!

That'd be like thinking ANYONE, ANYWHERE goes to a deli, gets a sandwich, and then loves that sandwich so much they go "Holy balls! You--deli guy--I'd like to pay for this sandwich AGAIN it was just so great!"

(And before you try to pull the "Ah, but free samples make people buy the product!" game, let's recall that free samples give you a SMALL TASTE of the product in order to entice you to buy the full version. And promos that give you a free meal with a coupon? Limited time only.

The "free sample" provided by piracy is the ENTIRE GAME. And then it's always available, for free, anytime you like. There is no enticement whatsoever for these people to turn around and become paying contributors--they got it all for free, so why go back and pay now? They know full well the company will make another (thanks to those saps foolish enough to BUY the game, har har), and they can just yoink that one, too.

Nothing you say stands up to the statistical evidence, or even basic human psychology. It's the kind of logic you only find on an extra 21st chromosome.

First of all, i never said its a sample! I said if your truely a fan of a game you will buy it. For instance, i hate halo, so ill never buy it.... i might get a pirated copy though! No incentive to buy you say? Have you ever downloaded a pirated game? Its full of complicated installations, bugs, software incompatibilities! Sure its free but its like getting a mongrel in a box, sure hes kinda cute in a mangy kinda way but it makes weird noises and humps about a bit and just isn't really the real thing you wanted. And its NOT the whole game now, maybe 5 or 10 years ago, but now that every multiplayer/co-op modes need special activation you actually get, the single-player so.... 50% of the game... maybe more.

And its not other peoples stuff, its YOUR stuff, you paid for it, why can't you share that with people? Nothing wrong with sharing. What if you got sued for thousands of your hard earned money because you lent your friend a music cd, or a game, or when you copied that cd for you mum for a Christmas present? A few million a year minus is a small price to pay for people to have the luxury which is so disperse now and not being able to afford something is a PERFECT excuse for downloading pirated material. If you can't pay for it, why pay? The company wouldn't make any money from you anyway so there is literally zero harm in you downloading it. Your not killing the system, your just taking what you can get.

No evidence? Screw evidence, its a well known fact that piracy while "infringing on copyright" reduces income from the multi-million publishers (boo-hoo, taking candy from a fat candy stuffed baby...with plenty of more candy on hand) thus effecting the makers, but still garners support for the makers (see TPB)! Not just for gaming but music. THAT'S GOOD! There's plenty of evidence online to support this - google is your friend.

Plus piracy for a lot of people was just a simple easy way to get what they wanted without moving off their seat, now with the genius that is digital downloading especially now as its been monopolised by Steam (go team Valve) piracy rates are going down. The Pirate Bay made millions of donations, SHOWING that people are happy to pay for games to keep coming in, granted TPB wasn't the maker or distributor but it provided this simple service and made tonnes of money, money i might add which the legal monopolies have cottoned on to. Expect to see more sights like TPB - but this time with a membership free or Pay as you Download.

Gosh! Just let piracy be - sure they're will always kids wanting to download the stuff for free, but if your smart and competitive as a company you will know how to get the people to pay for what you have to offer without having to force them or treat the paying consumer like criminals (or non-paying for that matter). How many artists have given up because of the photograph?

 

[RIOgreatescapist]

Dude when a single videogame costs up to 70 euros I believe piracy (not in mass though) shouldn't be frowned upon.
I mean come on, you wanna be up to date with music, movies n such though you're not gonna shit on your electricity bills and car mortgage just to buy your favorite band's new album, halo reach and catch a movie at your nearest theater.