I'm going to say this before it goes any farther. Get A room you two.Calibanbutcher said:
Anyway more on topic, yeah it's fox news I don't expect them to be right at this point.
To be happy, women must admit they are not "equal" to men
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Anyway more on topic, yeah it's fox news I don't expect them to be right at this point.
Yaaaawn. Silly, dumb article on Fox News. Pleasant thread on the Escapist due to descend into a shitstorm at any moment. All is right with the world.
In other words, equality.
Ahhh, two people working together as equals. That's exactly how I'd describe the halcyon days when women were considered mentally unfit to exercise autonomy (caused in part by the unfortunate tendency of the uterus to float into the brain.) When they needed to be the legal property of first their fathers and then their husbands (with the handing-off in weddings being not symbolic but literal) for their own good. When the ideal woman was barefoot and pregnant, silent unless spoken to, a being who the average husband regarded as an unpaid domestic servant with the mind of a child and a body he could put his dick in at will. Also she was less likely to die in a shipwreck.
In other words, equality.
That's the bugger and I have no idea .... the man attracts the lunatics in that film.EeveeElectro said:Dark ShadowsGlad someone got the reference. Thought the movie was pretty good but a bit odd. Why did everyone wanna jump on Johnny Depp's dick?
It was a pretty decent film but one thing I didn't quite get .... The witch at the end was kinda like glass and all cracked and broken (complete with crumbling glass heart).... how the hell did she not break during the incredibly acrobatic office romp?
Damn, I thought this thread would be about an actual good opinion on the whole sexism debate but instead I got "WOMEN CAN ONLY BE HAPPY IF MARRIED!". I actually agree that to actually be happy in one's life one should admit that nobody will ever be equal in a sense that there's absolutely no inequalities, because human nature and centuries-old traditions have made that incredibly hard. But shit like this is basically saying that if a woman or a man doesn't conform to the shitty society rules that only marriage can make one happy (and by the amount of divorces, suicides and homeless people that come out of it it's definitely not the best way to become truly happy).
Now I'm not saying that all women/black people/homosexuals/non-white males (because white males can't have anything wrong done to them because they're white males) should simply stop trying to get better treatment, they should definitely; but when it comes down to shit like employees taking in under-qualified women over well-qualified men because they're forced to meet a certain amount of women employees it's just going to far. I just find that sometimes un-needed social movements can turn a once-peaceful thing into a mish-mash of debates and shitstorms because of some notion that it's sexist or racist even when most of it boils down to "They're using context-accurate words! Kill them!", just look at Django Unchained. It's an R rated film set in the south during the height of slavery and racism, expecting Tarantino to make it unoffensive by having the evil slave owners call black people African Americans or something is just silly.
Just please, please don't call me a woman-hating misogynist just because I don't believe all feminist movements are necessary.
Now I'm not saying that all women/black people/homosexuals/non-white males (because white males can't have anything wrong done to them because they're white males) should simply stop trying to get better treatment, they should definitely; but when it comes down to shit like employees taking in under-qualified women over well-qualified men because they're forced to meet a certain amount of women employees it's just going to far. I just find that sometimes un-needed social movements can turn a once-peaceful thing into a mish-mash of debates and shitstorms because of some notion that it's sexist or racist even when most of it boils down to "They're using context-accurate words! Kill them!", just look at Django Unchained. It's an R rated film set in the south during the height of slavery and racism, expecting Tarantino to make it unoffensive by having the evil slave owners call black people African Americans or something is just silly.
Just please, please don't call me a woman-hating misogynist just because I don't believe all feminist movements are necessary.
Okay, having looked at the two videos in the OP's link, let's make a serious post here:
Firstly, Suzanne Venker is basically arguing that men and women need to respect traditional gender rolls more- let men do the DIY, walk nearest the road, open doors etc, that sort of thing. She's NOT saying that women should forgo their ambitions to have a career in the world of work and live life as a domestic housewife. Her argument is that marriages would be better and happier if some traditional gender rolls are adhered to.
Now, in my opinion i certainly agree that there's confusion surrounding gender rolls- some expectations have changed and some haven't. For instance, women go to university with the aim of advancing their careers as do men, but on nights out you'll rarely see women approaching men to chat them up, the expectation is still that the male makes the first moves. Could it be that women have cherry-picked gender norms that suit them (like wearing jeans and getting professional jobs)and left the harder tasks to men? Or does it reflect something on the nature side of the nature-nurture debate? Or a bit of both?
I'm a bit torn on the matter really. I think the world would be a better place if gender norms largely went away- I'm perfectly happy with women doing manual work and leading others, and men working in care positions and taking on a greater role in child-rearing. However, in day to day life and especially in dating you seem to get glimpses of old gender norms enduring. There's endless threads on the Escapist full of advice to young men telling them to be "confident"- and when you dissect that advice you begin to realise that it means taking on a lot of traditional masculine rolls- Be forward, assertive, dominant in conversation and impress women with your skills and talents. And if you glance over the covers of womens magazines, it's all about attracting males by making yourself thin, getting bigger breasts and that sort of thing. Is this simply cultural inertia or just a reminder from mother nature that we're animals just like the rest of fauna on Earth- with pre-programmed behavioral instincts and dispositions?
I think there's a lot of interesting debate to be had here, the trouble is that conversation about gender rolls is poisoned by the word "feminism", because a lot of people have such bias preconceptions of that word it colours any polite debate about the actual subject matter.
Firstly, Suzanne Venker is basically arguing that men and women need to respect traditional gender rolls more- let men do the DIY, walk nearest the road, open doors etc, that sort of thing. She's NOT saying that women should forgo their ambitions to have a career in the world of work and live life as a domestic housewife. Her argument is that marriages would be better and happier if some traditional gender rolls are adhered to.
Now, in my opinion i certainly agree that there's confusion surrounding gender rolls- some expectations have changed and some haven't. For instance, women go to university with the aim of advancing their careers as do men, but on nights out you'll rarely see women approaching men to chat them up, the expectation is still that the male makes the first moves. Could it be that women have cherry-picked gender norms that suit them (like wearing jeans and getting professional jobs)and left the harder tasks to men? Or does it reflect something on the nature side of the nature-nurture debate? Or a bit of both?
I'm a bit torn on the matter really. I think the world would be a better place if gender norms largely went away- I'm perfectly happy with women doing manual work and leading others, and men working in care positions and taking on a greater role in child-rearing. However, in day to day life and especially in dating you seem to get glimpses of old gender norms enduring. There's endless threads on the Escapist full of advice to young men telling them to be "confident"- and when you dissect that advice you begin to realise that it means taking on a lot of traditional masculine rolls- Be forward, assertive, dominant in conversation and impress women with your skills and talents. And if you glance over the covers of womens magazines, it's all about attracting males by making yourself thin, getting bigger breasts and that sort of thing. Is this simply cultural inertia or just a reminder from mother nature that we're animals just like the rest of fauna on Earth- with pre-programmed behavioral instincts and dispositions?
I think there's a lot of interesting debate to be had here, the trouble is that conversation about gender rolls is poisoned by the word "feminism", because a lot of people have such bias preconceptions of that word it colours any polite debate about the actual subject matter.
a conservative nutcase..but I digressNickolai77 said:
[quote/]basically arguing that men and women need to respect traditional gender rolls more- let men do the DIY, walk nearest the road, open doors etc, that sort of thing. She's NOT saying that women should forgo their ambitions to have a career in the world of work and live life as a domestic housewife. Her argument is that marriages would be better and happier if some traditional gender rolls are adhered to.[/quote]
see thease two things just don;t compute, those things " DIY, walk nearest the road, open doors" are such small trivial little things how the flying fuck could they improve ANYONES marrage? I get the distinct impression she's saying more women should be full time housewife's, what else would she be saying? stop and think before you put together that desk lest you destroy america? gender sterotypes (men do y! women do x!) are stupid, I mean I can accept that alot of peopel adhere to them...but the Idea that we should make a concious effort to adhere to them is quite frankly...well stupif
[quote/]Now, in my opinion i certainly agree that there's confusion surrounding gender rolls- some expectations have changed and some haven't. For instance, women go to university with the aim of advancing their careers as do men, but on nights out you'll rarely see women approaching men to chat them up, the expectation is still that the male makes the first moves. Could it be that women have cherry-picked gender norms that suit them (like wearing jeans and getting professional jobs)and left the harder tasks to men? Or does it reflect something on the nature side of the nature-nurture debate? Or a bit of both?[/quote]
there was no univeral feminist comitee deciding how to manipulate the laws of society in their favor...aside from the fact that peoples Ideas of "how things should be" genderwise are as diverse as people themselves...some women are princesses, some are not very nice people, some are really nice people
I cant say why some things go and some things say they just do, I get annoyed everytime somone brings this up as though women are collectivly doing it on purpose.....seriously I open doors for others and I could pay for a meal on a date..I dont know what everyone elses problem is
[quote/]. There's endless threads on the Escapist full of advice to young men telling them to be "confident"- and when you dissect that advice you begin to realise that it means taking on a lot of traditional masculine rolls- Be forward, assertive, dominant in conversation and impress women with your skills and talents.[/quote]
its not so much that but more "no one is going to touch your dick because your a "nice guy", watch Anime all day and cry into your wai-fu pillow every night out of lonlyness..."
[quote/]And if you glance over the covers of womens magazines, it's all about attracting males by making yourself thin, getting bigger breasts and that sort of thing. Is this simply cultural inertia or just a reminder from mother nature that we're animals just like the rest of fauna on Earth- with pre-programmed behavioral instincts and dispositions?[/quote]
as I said before, I can accept that people might gravitate to gender roles (is it nature or nurture? who knows) but to activly encourage everyone to follow along is...again not somthing I agree with
What a delightful thought you dear sweet fragile little thing:EeveeElectro said:
Also it almost looks like a deliberately inflammatory piece specifically meant to turn viral with people reposting it shouting "Look at this, look how dreadful it is! Increase their page views and advertising revenue to show how despicable they are!"
You and I should totally become a boyfriend and girlfriend and then get married and have lots of little kids with our faces on them, trust me I would really make you happy!Phasmal said:
I let you put on pink dresses and buy you cute tiara's for your head, and make you into a real woman, this is what would make you truly happy trust me on this ^_^
I mean we both have Anime avatars, we have SO much in common, I even know that it comes from sailor moon, see I know you the TRUE you that's only I can set free and make you happy
Trust me I don't have any agenda so let your prince charming sweep you of your feet:
Well, I believe the movie shows four in a time span of two centuries - which quite frankly is well below average.EeveeElectro said:Dark ShadowsRawne1980 said:
OT: Wouldn't it be lovely if for once people could accept that maybe they're not the only ones capable of making informed decisions they think best?
... I can understand though why that woman picked a tux for her wedding - she looks dashing.
I feel that this is an appropriate song for this thread ^_^
Opamn right we need to go back to the old ways when things used to be good, ahh how I miss being able to have multiple wives which I could beat to death if I wanted to *sigh*.
Op
amn right we need to go back to the old ways when things used to be good, ahh how I miss being able to have multiple wives which I could beat to death if I wanted to *sigh*.
OP, you wrote that post far too straight-faced. I honestly had problems understanding whether or not you were joking.
As for the gender roles, sure, if people want gender roles, then let them. If people don't, let them as well. Claiming traditional gender roles necessarily will "make you more happy" is a load of bull, however.
As for the gender roles, sure, if people want gender roles, then let them. If people don't, let them as well. Claiming traditional gender roles necessarily will "make you more happy" is a load of bull, however.
Vault101 said:
Heh, of course this is on an article by Fox. I got a good chuckle out of this, thanks! Word of warning though, that post was entirely too straight (chuckle) faced. Maybe you assumed your high-post count meant people knew you? I sure as hell didn't, I had to do a double take.
*looks at join date*MarsAtlas said:
I see. Welcome to the Escapist - I see you've already met Vault101 and found Off-Topic. The only other things you should know are stay out of the basement and that the red button has recently been updated and is safe to press [citation needed]
So, welcome!
looks like many ppl missed the joke and to be fair it was a bit straight faced however i don't think it is reasonable to dismiss any woman who wants to have a more "traditional" female role in life after all a woman's right to live her life how she feels is best for her could be argued to be more pro woman than stomping balls and getting a job as a bear wrestler
And now time for what will forever be known from now on as the "EeveeElectro birthing method"EeveeElectro said:
[HEADING=1]Ta-da![/HEADING]
you know what you made me do!?Caramel Frappe said:
I laughed and spilled cider on my Tablet pen..turns out those things are sensitive to water damage and it stoped working 0_0
thankfully blasting it with a hairdryer seemed to work but next time I might not be so lucky! you could have ruined my art!!!!!!!
its ok I forgive you